• Hi Guest! Forum rules have been updated. All users please read here.

UK. nuclear powered bomber designs

TsrJoe

ACCESS: Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2006
Messages
458
Reaction score
288
DELETED POST (please remove from the thread)
 

Antonio

ACCESS: Top Secret
Staff member
Senior Member
Joined
Jan 22, 2006
Messages
3,463
Reaction score
194
Dear Joe,

your latest posts are amazing!. Lockheed/BAC TFX, British nuclear bombers...totally new for me :eek: :eek:

Can you post this drawing?
I have seen a GA. drawing of a possible Hawker APG. concept of impressive size and unconventional layout


Thanks a lot

Antonio
 

Pioneer

Seek out and close with the enemy
Senior Member
Joined
May 22, 2006
Messages
1,836
Reaction score
196
'I have seen a GA. drawing of a possible Hawker APG. concept of impressive size and unconventional layout which might? be related to this?'

Sorry gents but what or where is this drawing found or located?

Regards
Pioneer
 

Thorvic

ACCESS: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2006
Messages
615
Reaction score
56
Joe

Anything in the Sauders Roe book as they did look at Nuclear power in their larger flying boat designs

Geoff
 

Skybolt

ACCESS: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Jun 14, 2006
Messages
2,301
Reaction score
126
In the Gunston "Giants of the sky", in the SaRo Princess chapter, there is
"One of the last projects based on the Princess was the P.213 of 1958-59. A lot of work was done on this, because it interested the US Navy. A nuclear reactor was to be installed, and the favoured schems were a direct-cycle system with 15.000 HP T57 turboprops (Pratt & Whitney collaborated in studies) or two indirect-cycle schemes, one with a pressurized-water reactor. Sveral version were investigated, one having two Princess hulls on a 310-ft wing and a weught of about 950.000 lb.
.

Wow (pressurized-water reactor!!!!!! in aircraft!!!!)

Fellows, the more one digs, the more aviation history looks different from what we used to know. Probably aviation historical studies are only now REALLY beginning (when all archives are disappearing.. sigh!)
 

Skybolt

ACCESS: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Jun 14, 2006
Messages
2,301
Reaction score
126
Has anyone seen anything further on this? or did any of the companies take up the challenge in design?
Perhaps this? AVRO 774 Long endurance weapon system, early 1960's (from Buttler's Secrets Projects Bombers)
By the way, ever encountered this?: Avro 768 VTOL weapon systems (Vulcan) (!!!!!!!!) Early 1960s (same source). A VTOL Vulcan... not bad...
 

Antonio

ACCESS: Top Secret
Staff member
Senior Member
Joined
Jan 22, 2006
Messages
3,463
Reaction score
194
Anything in the Sauders Roe book as they did look at Nuclear power in their larger flying boat designs

From Sea to Air. The Heritage of Sam Saunders. by AE Tagg and RL Wheeler. Ed Crossprint ISBN 0 9509739 3 9
pg 264
P213 Nuclear Reactor Layout
 

lark

ACCESS: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Feb 17, 2006
Messages
1,805
Reaction score
70
Avro 744 - Nuclear powered aircraft studies 1957.
(but nothing more....)
In : Avro Aircraft since 1908-A.J. Jackson- Putnam.
 

Schorsch

ACCESS: Restricted
Joined
Jan 17, 2006
Messages
26
Reaction score
2
The plans for the nuclear aircraft were fairly popular in the late 50s, but dropped in fame rather fast when the money needed for further development increased rapidly. Especially did the engine manufacturers fail t deliver a clear vision on how to solve their very substantial problems. Another issue was the shielding of the reactor. Hence I would call all plans for a nuclear aircraft very preliminary.
The Russians came as far as testing one aircraft with a nuclear propulsion system. the US NB-36 only had a reactor which went critical and they testet the shiedling.

All proposed propulsion systems were too heavy and not powerful enough. Then came nuclear submarine and ICBM and nobody wanted cumbersome stuff like bombers any more.
 

Jemiba

ACCESS: Above Top Secret
Staff member
Top Contributor
Senior Member
Joined
Mar 11, 2006
Messages
8,224
Reaction score
931
Here's a drawing of the Saunders P.213 from Tagg/Wheeler's From Sea To AIr.
 

Attachments

  • P213.JPG
    P213.JPG
    26.6 KB · Views: 738

Jemiba

ACCESS: Above Top Secret
Staff member
Top Contributor
Senior Member
Joined
Mar 11, 2006
Messages
8,224
Reaction score
931
Ah, here it is ! Couldn't find it at first, because I was looking for a Shorts design,
the classic company for large flying boats, but it is deHavilland.
But I have no more information about it, than this drawing from an aviation
encyclopedia ...
 

Attachments

  • DH-KERN.jpg
    DH-KERN.jpg
    24.1 KB · Views: 652

Skybolt

ACCESS: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Jun 14, 2006
Messages
2,301
Reaction score
126
Tsr.Joe... GREAT!
BTW, I think that the air intakes are indicated as the first larger grated surface (this a schematic, so nothing really realistic). Alternatively, the larger grate was intended for providing cooling for the heath exchanger of the reactors secondary cooling system, and the jet intakes are simply on the other side of the aircraft... ;).
Just a question, which liquid metal they intended to use? Salts of sodium, lithium, or lead-bismuth? (I suspect liquid salts of sodium).
 

CJGibson

ACCESS: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
May 26, 2011
Messages
1,431
Reaction score
649
TSRJoe,

This aircraft would need intakes. The reactor cooling system replaces the "Bang" in the "Suck-Squeeze-Bang-Blow" sequence of a gas turbine. The compressed air from the intake / diffuser will be heated by the reactor heat exchanger, (preferable to direct cooling, but less efficient) expands and shoots out the back. Add H2 from an airframe cooling system at the jet pipe for reheat and away you go. Add turbomachinery to get you off the ground and you have a nuclear powered jet engine. All very straight-forward - on paper!

See Pratt and Whitney or General Electric's proposals for WS-125.

KB
 

Michel Van

ACCESS: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Aug 13, 2007
Messages
4,649
Reaction score
671
Bloddy Hell they too...

question

was those Nuclear Engine
Invented in UK ?
or USA Hardware ?
or joinventure development ?
 

fredgell

ACCESS: Confidential
Joined
Jun 10, 2007
Messages
75
Reaction score
1
I'm sure I've seen references to a HS design for a nuclear powered
launcher for the later waverider space vehicles.

The date for this would have been late 60s early 70s.

Does anyone know if these craft were related, or was it just
the same engines? If they existed at all.

Fred
 

Barrington Bond

ACCESS: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
May 4, 2007
Messages
929
Reaction score
80
RAF Flying Review what if article.
 

Attachments

  • scan0004 (2).jpg
    scan0004 (2).jpg
    115 KB · Views: 411
  • scan0007 (2).jpg
    scan0007 (2).jpg
    86.1 KB · Views: 469
A

avatar

Guest
bloody hell ... were they trying to create a nuclear bomber or an airborne aircraft carrier !
 
A

avatar

Guest
they are infact 100 mile range 'guided bombs'.... but in any event this design given its limitless endurance and scaled up fighter aerodynamics could have done nicely in some FICON/ use a C-130 for drone recovery project. Moreover those 'standoff missiles' are rather large with pretty decent sized wings ......
 

Barrington Bond

ACCESS: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
May 4, 2007
Messages
929
Reaction score
80
Guys,

it's a guess by the magazine what a nuclear bomber might look like!

Regards,
Barry
 
A

avatar

Guest
agreed .. but it is a design nevertheless ... or are you saying that we are dealing with fan art masquerading as informed journalism .... fantasia or within limits speculation ? :)
 

Michel Van

ACCESS: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Aug 13, 2007
Messages
4,649
Reaction score
671
here the picture again
after i work with Photoshop on it ;D
 

Attachments

  • Britsh-atomic-bomber.jpg
    Britsh-atomic-bomber.jpg
    62.2 KB · Views: 358
A

avatar

Guest
hey Michael since you have really exceeded yourself today ... what about requesting the moderators to move this design to the fantasy art section as a possible AAC ;D
 

Merv_P

ACCESS: Confidential
Joined
Jul 29, 2006
Messages
115
Reaction score
5
A very interesting design. With Kenneth Gatland's name attached to it, it'll probably have been far-fetched but not pure fantasy.

Is he still alive, by the way? I remember him well for 'Frontiers of Space' in the late 60s/early 70s.
 

hesham

ACCESS: USAP
Senior Member
Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
26,684
Reaction score
3,468
Hi,

the Hawker Siddeley nuclear powered supersonic bomber project,
can anybody identify it ?.
http://www.flightglobal.com/PDFArchive/View/1956/1956%20-%201585.html?search=nuclear-powered%20aircraft
http://www.flightglobal.com/PDFArchive/View/1956/1956%20-%201613.html
 

Attachments

  • Hawker nuclear powered bomber.JPG
    Hawker nuclear powered bomber.JPG
    23.1 KB · Views: 230

fredgell

ACCESS: Confidential
Joined
Jun 10, 2007
Messages
75
Reaction score
1
The 2 flight links above may provide a clue to the earlier post re
'De Haviland' atomic flying boat.

DH take share in Saro and DH Atomics on same page.

Incidentaly, around this time there was also a 'Vickers Atomics'
based at South Marston near Swindon!
 

Skybolt

ACCESS: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Jun 14, 2006
Messages
2,301
Reaction score
126
Yep, but first of all, thanks and bravo to Hesham for his finding !
 

hesham

ACCESS: USAP
Senior Member
Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
26,684
Reaction score
3,468
Hi,

the De Havilland's director engineering,Mr. A. D. Baxter ,he designed
a new nuclear powered aircraft in 1961.
http://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1961/1961%20-%200138.html
 

Attachments

  • DH.JPG
    DH.JPG
    29.5 KB · Views: 336

Barrington Bond

ACCESS: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
May 4, 2007
Messages
929
Reaction score
80
Perhaps not bombers but UK thinking about power plants.
From the De Havilland Gazette - not sure of date but between '57 - '62.

Regards,
Barry
 

Attachments

  • IMG001.jpg
    IMG001.jpg
    61 KB · Views: 300
  • IMG_0001a.jpg
    IMG_0001a.jpg
    72.7 KB · Views: 297
  • IMG_0001b.jpg
    IMG_0001b.jpg
    85.8 KB · Views: 265

hesham

ACCESS: USAP
Senior Member
Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
26,684
Reaction score
3,468
hesham said:
the Hawker Siddeley nuclear powered supersonic bomber project,
can anybody identify it ?.
http://www.flightglobal.com/PDFArchive/View/1956/1956%20-%201585.html?search=nuclear-powered%20aircraft
http://www.flightglobal.com/PDFArchive/View/1956/1956%20-%201613.html

It was Avro-744.
 

Attachments

  • 1.png
    1.png
    11.2 KB · Views: 155

Similar threads

Top