Turkey and Persia Major Combatants in World War 2

[papacavy]

How could you get Turkey and/or Iran/Persia as a major industrial military power for World War 2? I am picturing one or both as the main antagonists in the 1930's or 1940's with a large, powerful and modern military. Could countries like Italy, France, Poland, Britain and America invest in aviation infrastructure in the 1920's?

 

[royabulgaf]

Turkey was trying to develop an aviation as early as the foundation of the republic. Some license building was done prior to WWII. Ataturk, the founder of the Turkish Republic was very aviation and technology minded, but he also believed Turkey would have to walk before it could run, and was wary of foreign investment and loans. He worked, drank, and smoked himself to death by 1938, and was ill for some time before. Perhaps if he lived, there would have been a more industrial Turkey by WWII.

 

[apparition13]

Japan managed it from a less developed condition, so as long as they started with modernization and industrialization by 1880 or so at the latest they might have been able to get to Japan levels of development by the 30s. Although their focus would naturally be more on land and air than naval forces given the history of invasions of their territories.

 

[Hood]

Turkey had purchased a number of modern (at the time) British designs around 1938-39; Blenheim, Lysander, Hurricane and Master; not to mention modern destroyers and submarines as well (some of which were delivered to keep Turkey sweet and pro-Allied or at least sweet and neutral). During the war (for the same reasons) they got Baltimores, Spitfires, Fw 190s and Beauforts.
The air force training scheme was re-modelled on RAF lines and Turkish officer pilot cadets were sent to Britain for training after 1941.
So Turkey had a pretty capable air force.
Industrially, the Nuri Demirag Tayyare Fabrikasi had been founded in 1937 but only produced a couple of biplane trainers of its own design and some licence-built aircraft. Arguably the time was ripe for Britain to assist industrially in this period had she been open to the opportunities, but the war would stop any chance of that happening. Interestingly Turkey could have also built on both Allied and German engine sources too.

Persia too was very much in the British aviation orbit but her war meant she received practically nothing in the way of modern equipment at all. Her chances of indigenous production in this period are far lower (unless you have low sights of biplane trainer types) and would rely on imported aero engines. But with sound purchases a decent air force could have been built up.

 

[royabulgaf]

Japan managed it from a less developed condition, so as long as they started with modernization and industrialization by 1880 or so at the latest they might have been able to get to Japan levels of development by the 30s. Although their focus would naturally be more on land and air than naval forces given the history of invasions of their territories.

Yes, Japan got an earlier start than Turkey, and received quite a bit of assistance from the UK. However, it's economy more resembled North Korea's, with everything devoted to the military. Although their navy was about as large as America's, their economy was about 1/5 the size. When the real war began in 41, they couldn't really step it up the way the US could.

 

[Lascaris]

Japan managed it from a less developed condition, so as long as they started with modernization and industrialization by 1880 or so at the latest they might have been able to get to Japan levels of development by the 30s. Although their focus would naturally be more on land and air than naval forces given the history of invasions of their territories.

Yes, Japan got an earlier start than Turkey, and received quite a bit of assistance from the UK. However, it's economy more resembled North Korea's, with everything devoted to the military. Although their navy was about as large as America's, their economy was about 1/5 the size. When the real war began in 41, they couldn't really step it up the way the US could.

The Ottoman empire between 1856 and 1878 took about 280 gold pounds in loans. To put it in some perspective the French war reparations to Germany in 1871 were 200 million. The money for every practical purpose disappeared in a black hole with nearly no infrastructure besides some railroads to account for it...

 

[sukhoipower]

if Turkey managed to Industrialized i don't think they will sided by Axis because Ataturk is not expansionist compare to Hitler and Mussolini even Shah Rezah have an expansionist views because of Pan-Persian also Ataturk don't like Ideology of Fascism even he called Dictator of many critics and Turkey send its Training Pilots to Britain and Britain send Technical Advisors to Turkey and Contrast to Persia/Iran they will be likely to Axis due to its Pan-Persian. if Persia managed to Industrialized in 1930s. The 1979 Islamic Revolution will never happened in our lifetime.