The Biggest Planned Trains?

It looks like serious planning for truly giant trains has been limited by the reality of track gauges, which surprised me. Post WWII optimism (or lunacy) of the sort that came up with Ploughshare would have led to a plethora of concepts, I thought.

I had a look at the 1964 World's fair GM Futurama pavilion and certainly there was plenty of mega-engineering, but not much about trains. Gigantic vehicles to lay roads through forests, sure.

Of course googling 'atomic' always brings something up and I did find this, the X-12 by Dr Lyle Borst of the University of Utah in consultation with the Association of American Railroads and companies including Union Pacific.

It's mentioned briefly here in the context of UP looking for something more powerful to succeed coal-fuelled steam locomotives and trying turbines before inevitably thinking of nuclear power. See here from about the 9'10" mark.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5u_h2MH92xg


That was the result of just a quick search. I suppose the Soviets would have had some ideas.
 

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There is this... trainwreck (yes, I know - my coat's over there) of a TV series from 1979.

en.wikipedia.org

Supertrain - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org
 

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Giant trains have been a staple of sf and steampunk. Harry Harrison's A Transatlantic Tunnel Hurrah! is indispensable. There are giant nuclear-powered locomotives, giant coal-powered flying boats, and of course the titular project.

Michael Swanwick's Fairyland stories (The Iron Dragon's Daughter etc.) posit an 'Industrial Revelation' and here's something by Rodney Matthews that wouldn't be out of place there.
 

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Russian monorail project (1921-1922, started in early 1910s), double-deck 400 passenger car (Breitspurbahn - to 460 passenger in car), 150 versta per hour (160 kmph), Putilov plant (St.-Petersburg) began manufacturing a car frame. Most likely, the project was closed due to lack of money.
042710_2219_16-1.png
 
During World War I, Russians worked on economic development projects for the 1920s and 1930s. It was assumed that in the 1920s, most of the main railway lines would be electrified, and heavier rails would be used, since it was assumed that the weight and speed of trains would increase.
 
The Red Devil was running again 6 months ago.
Whilst not the biggest, it was an interesting project during the twilight of steam, to inject new technologies into increasing power, efficiency, and economy.
I think they managed to increase power by 50% (to about 5000hp) whilst at the same time increasing its efficiency and economy.
All for naught, as the powers that be had decided on electric and diesel.
It would have been interesting to see what this might have led to regarding size and power.

View: https://youtu.be/gTb5gI_avOw
 
We had a similar guy in France, a genius engineer of steam locomotives who unfortunately couldn't figure they were going the way of dinosaurs... he fought for them until the very end, and he had countless smart ideas that unfortunately were not good enough against electric and diesel trains.

André Chapelon - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org
 
Yes.
Many of the principals applied in The Red Devil were the work of LD Porta, who was a protégé of Chapelon.
The Red Devil originally bore the nameplate "Porta" in deference to many of the principals developed by him, and applied by the designer of The Red Devil, David Wardale.

The Red Devil used 28% less coal, 30% less water, whilst increasing power by 52%.
Those are staggering improvement figures.

en.wikipedia.org

South African Class 26 4-8-4 - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

Wardale went on to design the 5AT project, which embodied the elements proven in The Red Devil. The design was to maintain a 180km/h speed.
Basically, thoroughly modernising steam.
 
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Well, seeing nuclear power is steam power…maybe there will be a comeback once the hippies are six feet under…

N-1 the largest “train car” I suppose.
 
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We have nuclear power for trains. It's just that the reactor is in a convenient central location, and not subject to being breached when an idiot parks his lorry on a level crossing.
 
kaiserbill said:
The Red Devil was running again 6 months ago.
Whilst not the biggest, it was an interesting project during the twilight of steam, to inject new technologies into increasing power, efficiency, and economy.
I think they managed to increase power by 50% (to about 5000hp) whilst at the same time increasing its efficiency and economy.
All for naught, as the powers that be had decided on electric and diesel.
It would have been interesting to see what this might have led to regarding size and power.

View: https://youtu.be/gTb5gI_avOw
Click to expand...
Steam systems need a lot of maintenance. Imagine needing 3 or 4 locomotives to keep 2 out making money.

Compared to diesels needing less than 3 to keep 2 out making money (about 10 locomotives for 9 out), or electrics needing just over 2 to keep 2 out making money (about 20 locomotives for 19 out)
 
Scott Kenny said:
Steam systems need a lot of maintenance. Imagine needing 3 or 4 locomotives to keep 2 out making money.

Compared to diesels needing less than 3 to keep 2 out making money (about 10 locomotives for 9 out), or electrics needing just over 2 to keep 2 out making money (about 20 locomotives for 19 out)
Click to expand...
Very true, no argument.
I suspect in this particular case, South Africa being one of the largest coal producers in the world with one of the largest coal reserves probably played a role. Especially having to import oil/diesel.
Yet diesel and electric still won out.
 
I have a feeling that cost of construction of permanent way would have been a limiting factor in the size of giant trains.
Another factor might be the consumption of time in loading/unloading freight or passengers of the quantity a giant train car can hold.
 
Think about the logistic of loading/unloading goods and passengers, that you may need a much larger platform, station, connection transport, etc. Together with other unique structures the cost of sustaining will be skyrocketing.
 
kaiserbill said:
Very true, no argument.
I suspect in this particular case, South Africa being one of the largest coal producers in the world with one of the largest coal reserves probably played a role. Especially having to import oil/diesel.
Yet diesel and electric still won out.
Click to expand...
Maintenance costs - in materials, shop overhead (tools, shop space, etc), and highly trained personnel also factored in heavily.
 
The Union Pacific Big Boy is the most powerful steam locomotive in operation.

en.wikipedia.org

Union Pacific Big Boy - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

In Planet Story, by Harry Harrison and Jim Burns, the eccentric captain of the Execrable [sic] indulges his train hobby with a gold-plated Big Boy. In one image we see the train suffering a unique form of aerial attack from reptilian NIMBYs objecting to the new railroad.

33505947_10155352358207343_8358037444989288448_o.jpg 34268875_10155370371752343_6921987762040078336_o.jpg
 
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