Small UAS / Drones and related general thread - NOT Swarming ones.

Drones, UAV, UCAV, etc., are here to stay. They will have a place across war, but their loss rate is 10:1 (my estimate so kill it!) to manned platforms. To the supported soldier on the ground they really don't care how they get the supplies. If you have to send five/seven/ten resupply to make sure the ammo gets where it needs to be they don't care. I would not want to be the poor sap who has to run around the battlefield picking up all the pieces (and undelivered ammo) to try and keep some UAS working. I suppose you could just order more UAV from Amazon, but if the trucks are busy moving your new UAS and batteries to the front, who is moving the ammo?

It is a misnomer to say "unmanned". More accurate is "uncrewed" as the number of people needed to repair/maintain, and operate these air vehicles are not less than a manned organization. Of course once we get intelligent war machines we may not have that problem. Then we may have bigger ones.
"...I'll be baack."

That said, then there is this:

U.S. Army Partners with eVTOL Developer Beta Technologies

It’s the second U.S. military contract for the Vermont-based electric vertical takeoff and landing company.


By Thom Patterson

January 31, 2022

beta-technologies-alia.png

Vermont-based Beta Technologies is working toward FAA type certification for Alia by 2024. [Courtesy Beta Technologies]

Vermont-based Beta Technologies announced Monday it has won a U.S. Army contract to support flight testing of its Alia electric vertical takeoff and landing aircraft.

The partnership eventually aims to help the Army test specific military cargo and logistics missions for eVTOLs, while allowing Beta to accelerate development for both military and civil applications.

The Army contract isn’t Beta’s first partnership in the military sector. In 2020, it joined the U.S. Air Force’s AFWERX Agility Prime program, specifically designed to accelerate development of the emerging eVTOL industry.

“This partnership with the Army marks another important step in the military’s commitment to advancing and adopting sustainable electric aviation solutions,” said Beta founder and CEO Kyle Clark in a statement. “We’re gratified by the continued support of the sector, and this allows us to accelerate our development of Alia as an incredibly safe and reliable logistics aircraft for both military and civil applications.”

Initially, Army engineers and Beta’s team plan to evaluate how Alia might best be applied to specific missions by measuring its range, altitude, endurance, and payload limits.

BETA_Technologies_ALIA_eVTOL_aircraft-1024x683.jpeg
Alia received the U.S. Air Force’s first airworthiness approval for a crewed eVTOL in 2021. [Courtesy Beta Technologies]About the Aircraft

First revealed in 2020, Alia is Beta’s second-generation eVTOL test article. It’s a single-prop pusher with a 50-foot wing and V-tail. The aircraft achieves vertical lift during takeoff and landing from four fixed rotors. Alia is being developed for multiple roles, including cargo, medical transport, and passenger transportation. Beta says the aircraft will be capable of carrying a pilot and cargo—or four passengers—as far as 250 nm on a single charge. Maximum takeoff weight (MTOW): 6,999 pounds.

According to Beta, Alia set industry records last year, flying 205 nm on a single charge and reaching an altitude of 8,000 feet. The aircraft has flown multiple times between New York’s Plattsburgh (KPBG) airport and Beta’s headquarters at Vermont’s Burlington International Airport (KBTV).

About Beta Technologies

Although it doesn’t expect to achieve FAA aircraft type certification for Alia until 2024, Beta has already announced purchase agreements with UPS Flight Forward (NYSE:UPS) and Blade Urban Air Mobility (NASDAQ:BLDE). Also, Alia received the U.S. Air Force’s first airworthiness approval for a crewed eVTOL last year.

The privately held, venture capital-backed company announced last year it had raised $368 million in Series A funding, led by Fidelity Management and including Amazon’s Climate Pledge Fund. Beta also received an initial tech sector investment last year from UP.Partners, a group of serial aviation and tech entrepreneurs.

An Electric Transportation Ecosystem

Beta sees itself as much more than an aircraft developer. It has plans to integrate its eVTOLs as part of an electric transportation ecosystem.

Based on the idea that electric aircraft will need viable infrastructure for charging batteries and other services before it can be fully successful, Beta already has started working to establish a multi-state network of charging stations designed to serve all electric vehicles, including cars, trucks, as well as aircraft. The company plans to build the stations across the eastern U.S., according to a map on its website.

At its Vermont headquarters, Beta has built what it says will be the first of many eVTOL recharging pads. The structure includes a landing pad for eVTOLs above the structure, which consists of crew quarters, a crew rest area, and a control center.
 
Last edited:
PHOLOS Drone

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQEqEofpBK0



The UAV is interesting in that it has a vertical take-off and landing system. Unfortunately, @UAWeapons cannot say exactly which model it is, but presumably we are talking about a rare PHOLOS unmanned aerial vehicle. It is being developed by the British company Overwatch Aerospace and the American company Ascent Aerosystems.

View: https://twitter.com/UAWeapons/status/1530993103259283465?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1530993103259283465%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_c10&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fgagadget.com%2Fen%2F134741-in-service-with-the-armed-forces-of-ukraine-they-noticed-an-unusual-kamikaze-drone-with-a-vertical-take-off-system-it-cou%2F


Such dron-kamikaze can boast of onboard optoelectronic infrared camera. As for autonomy, according to the analyst, PHOLOS is able to stay in the air for up to 45 minutes. By the way, it is likely that such drones were given to us by Great Britain. At least in April, the country's Ministry of Defense said that it would send to Ukraine high-tech loitering ammunition for pinpoint strikes.
 
Self evident happenings~

Weird, the drones are tiny
 
I had assumed TB-2 because of the twin tail arrangement…is Ukraine know to operate that type?
 

Lessons learned from the ongoing conflict, involving a lot of drone, anti-drone and precision strike complex topics:

Utility of Drones in kill chain responsiveness
According to Ukrainian artillery crews, Russian artillery is generally able to bring accurate
artillery fire down on targets 3 to 5 minutes after UAV reconnaissance has identified them, but
if a target is identified with EW direction finding, acoustic reconnaissance or counterbattery
artillery radar, it will take Russian artillery approximately half an hour to bring inaccurate
artillery fire to bear. The importance of UAVs to Russia’s artillery precision and responsiveness
has forced Ukraine to maintain organic MANPADS teams with their artillery, preferably armed
with visually guided systems such as Starstreak and Martlet, which have proven much more
effective against UAVs and helicopters. If Russian forces are able to maintain UAV reconnaissance
over a target, they are able to adjust fire in near-real time even if the target is moving.

Electronics warfare: Issues with friendly jamming and other limits
On 6 June 2022, for example, a
field assessment of the Russian armed forces concluded that ‘the enemy’s UAVs, high-precision
loitering and artillery ammunition and communications equipment rely on positioning through
the reception of signals from satellite radio navigation systems’.32 To protect Russian forces
from these capabilities, it was recommended that they continuously suppress access to satellite
navigation through the constant operation of the Pole-21 system and the constant employment
of the R330Zh, both on maximum power using omnidirectional jamming. The advice noted that
these systems could be deconflicted with the employment of Orlan-10 UAVs by the Russian
forces. The effect on Russian command and control was limited by the linking of command posts
by ground-laid field cable,33 which Ukrainian forces have noted is now always emplaced within
hours of the Russians setting up a position.34 Both Pole-21 and R330Zh are turned off prior
to the commencement of Russian artillery strikes that may need to rely on accurate satellite
based positioning. In practice, while widespread, coverage is not constant because the R330Zh
requires a significant supply of fuel to operate.

A more active layer in the Russian EW defence architecture is provided by Shipovnik-Aero, a
truck-mounted jamming system... The system has a range of 15 km and detects UAVs
through their control frequency. The system takes approximately 25 seconds to analyse the
control frequencies of newly encountered UAVs, and around 2 seconds to reconfirm the control
frequencies of previously encountered UAVs.35 It then jams the command frequency. In addition,
the system overrides the positioning of the UAV so that ‘return to base’ protocols lead the
UAV to land in a location designated by the Russians. The Shipovnik-Aero has two workstations
and is able to engage two UAVs at a time. Its jamming effect is delivered on a bearing with a
width of approximately 3 degrees, suppressing friendly and civilian signals in the targeted bands
within this area.36 Although these systems are not universally available to Russian formations,
their presence has become widespread, limiting the airspace that Ukrainian UAVs are able to
penetrate and monitor. The Shipovnik-Aero can take up to 40 minutes to set up and, like many
other Russian EW systems, is therefore vulnerable to suppression through forced displacement
or strike if its position can be determined.

Direct counter fire
Another challenge faced by Ukrainian troops is that Russian direction finding is highly capable
and where it is not possible to suppress UAVs, it is often possible to target the ground control
station. The means by which ground control stations have been targeted depends on the type
of UAV and its range, but has included the dedicated firing of 152-mm howitzers, 300-mm
MLRS and Tochka-U at UAV operators. Between these threats and those of EW causing UAVs to
crash, or interception by air-defence systems, the lifespan of Ukrainian UAVs is roughly 7 days
with some variation by system.37 In consequence, many Ukrainian units are forced to choose
between having a live feed from their UAVs and thereby risking a high likelihood of losing the
platform or sending UAVs out on pre-set flight plans and analysing the images they take on their
return to a pre-set location.
Another element of the use of EW in an
offensive role is the TORN-MDM signals intelligence vehicle, capable of direction finding and
triangulating tactical communications within a radius of between 30 and 70 km depending on
frequency

A pretty good picture of the EW warfare environment. The threat of drones would increase the ideal air defense density to go beyond any point in history, and the EW simply demands counter fires and drone autonomy.

One thing that is not talked about (and probably very secret) in the current conflict is Ukraine electronic intelligence capability.
 

Translated Text of parts of the article:
The drone videos what it's seeing with its camera. The developers' AI system automatically recognises camouflaged enemy equipment and marks it with the precise geographical coordinates. The data is sent both to the drone operators and the commander in the field....

Interestingly, the developers say that their drones are resistant to Russian electronic warfare due to the use of a proprietary navigation system that doesn't rely on GPS. The drones can also engage a kamikaze mode to fly into targets deemed important enough

When it comes to drones, the Russians have a unified system, while the civic movement of software professionals in Ukraine has created many independent systems, often operating on completely different principles, using completely different protocols

It will not be so easy for them to figure us out, because each of the civic groups has created a separate system for their drones. Working out one or two of them won't get them anywhere, especially since they don't know which individuals are using which system.

The Russian system is dangerous but has low development potential. In turn, various Ukrainian teams are constantly working on improvements. Also Mychało, Ołeksandr and their team of a dozen or so. Their drone today has the ability to take only 3 kg of cargo on board and can fly up to 10-15 km.

They are currently working on its improved version, which will fly up to 50 km with a load of up to 20 kg. It will no longer only drop bombs, but also launch them. This new civic project also relies on civic financial support - they are currently raising money for a new build on their saker.airforce site
 
 
Very nice video but, once again, good luck for landing that with a bit of weather...
Seems to me getting in position, chopping the engine and just letting it drop into a net would be a good way to go with something like that. Or even just *flying* it into a net.
The flying into net technique has been done before so it's definitely possible.
 
Very nice video but, once again, good luck for landing that with a bit of weather...
Seems to me getting in position, chopping the engine and just letting it drop into a net would be a good way to go with something like that. Or even just *flying* it into a net.

A harpoon-style deck lock on the tail could also work.
 
Drone evolution~
Fb5WqB-XoAIUVqk.jpg

Fb5WrVZXgAA3kVU.jpg

In other news:


The photo seems to have came out recently
View: https://twitter.com/AliAlkindi89/status/1566508575710642177


On April 15, 2021, the Houthis destroyed a Patriot air defense system in southern Saudi Arabia with a kamikaze drone strike. Actual satellite images have appeared only now.

The Patriot position area was attacked in the northern part of the city of Jizan, coordinates: 16.983676, 42.547947 As a result of the strike, at least one installation was completely destroyed.

Official from the Houthis, posted 12 hours after the strike: - The Missile Forces and the Air Force conducted a joint offensive operation using 11 missiles and drones, targeting Aramco platforms, Patriot complexes and sensitive targets in Jizan. - Patriot positions and bases were attacked by four Samad 3 and Qasef 2K drones, the hit was accurate.

And an interesting point: the Saudi media almost immediately began to accuse the Houthis of attacking the university campus, which is indeed located 2 km south of the attacked position area.
Heavy Air defense systems take serious protection even against much inferior opponents.


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EdUadDA7XjM

Anyone know of any development in drone based wall penetration radar in recent years since the video was published?
 
One look i did on a commercial drone. Based on Mugin 4450/5000. I'll be honest it's kinda legit cruise missile.

Mugin-Based.png

The size and shape of the drone is based on one in Aliexpress, material is Carbon fiber. Wheels and attachments are left as PEC as the wheels are metal apparently. Propellers are omitted as they're unlikely to be detected. Considered aspect are frontal which defined as 120 degrees of arc horizontal and 45 degrees of arc vertical.

The modeling is 36 frequencies from VHF down to 36 GHz so i think the RCS modeling result would be representative for Air defense radar from EW down to Gunfire control radar. The following result are obtained

FrontalMuginBasedFrontal.gif

The commercial drone of such construction appears to have a strong but very narrow frontal spike. Which caused apparently by the fuselage. I tried omitting the wheel and tail but the lobe persist. The narrow nature of the lobe however might make it difficult to pick as the radar have to be in front of the drone which might be hard to guarantee.

The other concern are the strength of the lobe which the highest are only about 1 sqm or even less. Those are rather weak return especially if low flight are to be sought. Medianizing the result yielded following graphics.

Mugin Median RCS.png

Even in VHF or L-band the RCS does not exceed 0.1 Sqm. Typical airport radar equipped with STC (Sensitivity Time Control) may filter out such RCS. Air defense radar may also have problem picking up the drone, particularly older type, for example early version of Tor missile system have minimum target RCS that can be engaged of 0.1 sqm. Later design have minimum threshold improved to 0.05 sqm.

Unfortunately i dont know the "minimum RCS" constraint for Western system, but i believe it's similar.

The drone also have very long range. Information from Aliexpress quotes 7-8 hours and even 10 hours of endurance. If such endurance are converted to range one would get :


raymerreversal.png

Assuming cruise speed of 120 Km/h.

Air defense system making use of pulse doppler or MTI Radar may also found such low speed challenging as it might be similar as bird or their rejection notch are put there to reject contact that move at certain speed.

Coming in swarm tho.. can easily saturate air defense.. some will penetrate.

anyway hope this is not out of topic.
 
 
Well a drone hunting drone would be a must. Something small enough to be launched by a fighter jet, light enough to be carried by a helicopter and lethal to the point of being able to kill multiple targets in one mission.
Do I am asking too much?

Wait...
 
With all the footage of Drones observing multiple ground to air kills, there is discussing the idea of drones as an air defense sensor.

View: https://twitter.com/TrentTelenko/status/1574080899540557828#m


Multiple tracks on low attitude jets and helicopter kills in this conflict proves the sensors performance/density is enough in some of the situations, the remaining issue is communications and targeting grade localization, aka a software problem.

We may even see a Drone directed NASAM engagement in this conflict if it lasts long enough. Now that'd be a awful problem for penetrative helicopter ops.

Perhaps small drone air war will happen quite soon as well, though probably not quite catching this conflict.
It would be useful for OTH engagement of low flying aircraft for sure.
 
With all the footage of Drones observing multiple ground to air kills, there is discussing the idea of drones as an air defense sensor.

View: https://twitter.com/TrentTelenko/status/1574080899540557828#m


Multiple tracks on low attitude jets and helicopter kills in this conflict proves the sensors performance/density is enough in some of the situations, the remaining issue is communications and targeting grade localization, aka a software problem.

We may even see a Drone directed NASAM engagement in this conflict if it lasts long enough. Now that'd be a awful problem for penetrative helicopter ops.

Perhaps small drone air war will happen quite soon as well, though probably not quite catching this conflict.
It would be useful for OTH engagement of low flying aircraft for sure.
Some late Cold War air defence schemes had early warning drones as part of their proposed line of battle, IIRC.
 
It would certainly give a heads up to MANPADS and AAA operators if nothing else. Add a laser and you might be able to use certain missiles against helicopters OTH, or at least beyond tree lines. A Brimstone or Martlet would probably work.
 

Similar threads

Back
Top Bottom