Swarms, small drones that could be used in swarms, etc.

Josh_TN

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This is old but hasn’t been mentioned yet. I could envision this tech being used as a kind of smart Chaff:

 

shin_getter

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muttbutt

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sferrin

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This looks familiar :rolleyes::


 
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shin_getter

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News from wars:
It appears that Kargu gets a deployment in Azerbaijan.
From some discussions about the war, Harop gets a manufacturing price tag of $80~100k (supposedly reported in israeli media) per drone, quite cheap if one thinks of 1000km strike range.

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Some other thoughts:
It appears that "next gen" drones that logically evolve with threats have not yet materialized.

First of all, laser blinding would likely be the most common defense, with wide applicability and very low costs. INS dead reckoning, cooperative localization of friend and foe, and non-persistent stare (look only enough to hit, not more) and unpowered/unactuated terminal trajectory is what I'd expect. Hitting what the camera tracks is uninteresting, hitting a target with a group of blinded vehicles is what is impressive.

A higher velocity terminal stage with reduced vulnerability to damage (ballistic trajectory, remove large draggy "cruise" aerodynamic surfaces that can cause instability when damaged, add armor, insensitive warhead, etc) should be generally useful.

The other thing that is rather disappointing is the lack of rapid recovery and turn-around capability. Large saturation attack swarms is too wasteful to be used only once.
 

trose213

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From some discussions about the war, Harop gets a manufacturing price tag of $80~100k (supposedly reported in israeli media) per drone, quite cheap if one thinks of 1000km strike range.

Do you have a link to the media where the is quoted price? That seems pretty cheap for the cost of the overall system.
 

shin_getter

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View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IUkWkC3telA

Chinese puts 8x60mm or 3x81mm mortar shells on a helicopter with >120km/h speed, 25km range, ~40kg weight, with bombings done at 300m attitude. Since it ain't a quad which means it ain't trash by jsport standards!

Still though, Hard for me to see what this vehicle is particularly good at. Blasting trench lines for very, very cheap?

From some discussions about the war, Harop gets a manufacturing price tag of $80~100k (supposedly reported in israeli media) per drone, quite cheap if one thinks of 1000km strike range.

Do you have a link to the media where the is quoted price? That seems pretty cheap for the cost of the overall system.
Well its just reddit post on /combatfootage and /azerbaijan . There was 2 mention of $100k class cost over the past few weeks, without actual posted evidence though. Some other discussion was about how each harop "system" have 8~12+ munitions and india's $100mil purchase involves 10 systems with ~100+ drones, control and launch systems, spares, training and so on.

My short attempt at hebrew via machine translation lands me here: https://www.fresh.co.il/vBulletin/showthread.php?t=459216&highlight=%E4%E0%F8%F4%E9 which repeats the claim on the indian purchase. I guess searching that forum for a while may turn a more reliable source up.

Looking at english media, I think the closest guess I've currently found is: https://www.flightglobal.com/south-korea-deploys-anti-radar-uav/30191.article
Which puts 100 Harpy (systems?) at $50mil (or 500k each). Add in all the support system/training/tech transfer/etc costs I guess it falls in the ball park.

Still would like to get a better pinned down number though. The switchblade is pegged at $70,200 sale price somewhere though that is a far smaller drone.
 
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shin_getter

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At a live demonstration for India’s Army Day last week, the Indian military showed off a swarm of 75 drones destroying a variety of simulated targets in explosive kamikaze attacks for the first time. The commentary accompanying the demonstration claimed that the swarm is capable of autonomous operation. You can see a video of the event here...

The Indian Army appears to be using three types of UAV: a quadcopter probably for sensing, a six-rotor mothership drone, and the small quadcopters with explosives on them. “National security discourse in the United States around drones often emphasizes a large homogenous swarm, but India's work shows this is a mistake.” A mix of drones with heavyweight carriers, reusable scouts with advanced sensors and expendable attack drones may be more flexible and capable. Kallenborn also notes that the claim of an autonomous swarm is plausible, but it is not clear how much of this has been achieved so far.

According to the commentary, the drone swarm is capable of attacking targets from a range of 50 kilometers. In addition to reconnaissance and attack, Indian drone swarms will also be able to carry out resupply missions, with a 75-drone swarm delivering over 1,200 pounds of supplies to troops in the battle zone.

India is also developing drone swarms that can be deployed from fast jets. A Jaguar strike aircraft will carry four pods each containing each of the Air-Launched Flexible Asset (Swarm) or ALFA-S drones, which are capable of attacking air defenses. This project was fast-tracked last year in response to China’s deployment for surface-to-air missiles across the Ladakh border.
 

shin_getter

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Nice overview of the topic on the offensive and defensive side:


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Ultimately, all MBTs, IFVs and armoured infantry carriers will need some kind of remote weapon station fitted with weapons and sensors capable of engaging both aerial and ground targets. Here an M134 7.62 mm Minigun on a Kongsberg RS4 can provide a significant close-in defensive effect. (Image: US Marine Corps)
It does seem to me that Dual purpose weapons ought to be favored over single purpose ones. Air defense needs to be ubiquitous and cover a complete range of targets, covering both saturation attacks and high performance penetration attacks. I expect that once all aspect air defense coverage is fulfilled, there is basically almost no direct fire ground target that does not fall into the effective engagement envelope of some AA capable system in the formation, thus removing much demand for specialized weapons.

The greatly superior mobility with good presence of loitering munition means evasion is not an option for heavy land forces, and sheer firepower is needed to survive an well resourced attack. I'd expect it to crowd out other forms firepower as they are less critical.

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Kind of a no-brainer here, but ALTIUS-600 with 276 miles on light load is something interesting.
 
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shin_getter

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Indian air port attacked by small drones.
 

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Mark this as happenings?




and this is what diplo types think
 
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Grey Havoc

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Though with that particular Air Marshal, I would take his statements with more than a pinch of salt.
 

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