Saturn-Lyulka variable cycle engine R&D

[tequilashooter]

This information was deleted so I wonder if it holds any significance, enjoy. https://webcache.googleusercontent....s/2021/5/18/228542/+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

On May 18, 2021, AEX.RU - A. Lulka Design Bureau - a subsidiary of"ODK-UMPO"is working on the formation of a scientific and technical backbone to create a sixth-generation engine for combat aviation. "This is a three-contour scheme, which the whole world is doing," Evgeny Marchukov, general designer of the Design Bureau, said at the ICAM-2020 conference. This is reported by the press service of the MAKSAir Show.

According to him, two options for implementing this scheme are being developed. The first stand tests of the demonstrator are due to take place in 2021. Using a three-contour scheme will allow to modernize the al-41F-1engine, improving its characteristics while maintaining dimensions.

In addition, as part of the creation of the NTH OCB, I.A. Lulki is engaged in such areas as a combustion chamber with wave detonation, a pulsating resonative detonation engine with a two-stage burning of kerosene-air mixture.

 

[paralay]

 

[TMA1]

Fascinating. Is that izd 30? Looks like it has the same cold air bypass as it seems to show on the new tempest fighter. Perfect for cooling the exhaust, especially if aerosols are added!

 

[haavarla]

We would need an overlay with 117S engine to see any difference in size.
That would be very helpfull, thx.

 

[FighterJock]

Fascinating. Is that izd 30? Looks like it has the same cold air bypass as it seems to show on the new tempest fighter. Perfect for cooling the exhaust, especially if aerosols are added!

I hope that it is izd 30, at least I hope that it is.

 

[paralay]

This is a development of the AL-31F from the Salyut company. I couldn't think of a better picture

 

[Saber]

Not AL-41F/Izd. 20?

 

[paralay]

No

 

[stealthflanker]

Well Salyut and Saturn have kind of their own thing in the development of AL-31F family.

and this makes me curious if they are still working with China.

 

[isayyo2]

Neat, never knew how big the original AL-41 was.

 

[Trident]

This is a development of the AL-31F from the Salyut company. I couldn't think of a better picture

Ok, copy that - the 2D background drawing is a Salyut AL-31FM variant. But what's the 3D overlaid CAD image, with the apparent 3rd stream ducts?

That long fan spinner reminds me of a certain unidentified Russian engine photo...

 

[paralay]

One post above tequilashooter gave the news, but without the picture

https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:x-4qs1I0tR0J:https://www.aex.ru/news/2021/5/18/228542/+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

 

[tequilashooter]

I am a little confused here, so this question is more like a survey. The F-35, NGAD and Russia's 6th gen I am assuming are heading for a 3 stream cycle engine design, correct? Is the FCAS really going for SABRE and Tempest going for reaction engines for near hypersonic speeds or will they just settle down for a 3 stream cycle engine design? I see more promise with a 6th gen interceptor Mig-41 getting detonation engines https://tass.ru/ekonomika/11103513 https://www.militarynews.ru/story.asp?lang=RU&nid=516338&rid= for a near hypersonic design than I do of the other two in my own opinion.

 

[Geo]

I am a little confused here, so this question is more like a survey. The F-35, NGAD and Russia's 6th gen I am assuming are heading for a 3 stream cycle engine design, correct? Is the FCAS really going for SABRE and Tempest going for reaction engines for near hypersonic speeds or will they just settle down for a 3 stream cycle engine design? I see more promise with a 6th gen interceptor Mig-41 getting detonation engines https://tass.ru/ekonomika/11103513 https://www.militarynews.ru/story.asp?lang=RU&nid=516338&rid= for a near hypersonic design than I do of the other two in my own opinion.

No more dreaming about pulse-detonation technology for PAK DP.

 

[Willythekid]

From everything I have read, the temperatures and pressures to less parts and better efficiency this sounds like a huge leap for the ruskies. They are already planning on using the izd30 core for future engines (like a three stream variant potentially for the mig41) and they have essentially given the timeline for 2024 when pre production engines will be installed for final testing. I can see why it has taken so long. After reading about fighters for so long it really does show that the engines are essentially as complex to develop as the whole fighter itself.

Yeah, the AL-31F family has been in active use and development since 1985 until literally today and even further (still apparently seeing development of a 16 tf version of AL-41F-1 for LTS). That is more than 40 years, until a substitute in the form of izd. 30 with new layout and design philosophy appears in the series after 2025. UEC openly talks about it as the new platform on which they will develop their engines for the next 40-50 years. Small correction though, as per the roadmap proposed by UEC, the PAK-DP should use the current core of the izd. 30, while the 6th gen plane would use a three streams engine currently under development but based on a further evolution of the technologies learnt from the izd. 30.

I published this post before, but I deleted it because I thought it was info already published in this magnificent forum. If so, please delete it. Thanks!

Based on the Izdeliye 30 engine, Saturn-Lyulka is working on a variable cycle (three circuits) military engine. According to Evgeny Marchukov, OKB Lyulka, two versions of this scheme are being developed. The first bench tests of the demonstrator should have started sometime in 2021.