Sukhoi T-75 LTS (CheckMate)

[Josh_TN]

It seems likely the UAE will get F-35. Maybe LTS interest was feigned as a bargaining tactic, but I don’t think the UAE would ever commit to a Russian buy knowing that would displease the US, CAASTA or otherwise. It looks like their air force will continue to be half US and half French.

 

[LMFS]

Oh boy...

- UAE wants to develop their aerospace industry, hence the interest in participating in a 5th gen light fighter program with Russia;
- Russia does NOT NEED UAE to develop LTS. If they want a share in the business, fine, if not, fine too, it will be a bit bigger financial effort for Russia but also more profits for them. These programs are not dependent on foreign funding or a particular customer, please listen to the responsible officials for once;
- Iran has no say in who Russia sells planes too. And in fact it is Russia that is sponsoring a detente among the Gulf countries, so the idea definitely is that there is no incompatibility in Russian allies receiving weapons from them, like India and China for instance;

The information has been posted in this very thread, yet some people refuse to read and just keep harping on the same disingenuously flawed arguments.

 

[TMA1]

Tend to agree with those saying it was a means to finally push western powers to sell their top line kit to them. Agreed russians do not need the Emirates to get the LTS going. I just wish people in ruskie MIC would stop counting the chicks before they hatch. They need to quiet down and show results. They certainly CAN do this in spite of all the pressure against them. Sukhoi is one of the best. Now they need to roll up sleeves and get to work. No more propaganda.

 

[trose213]

Russia does NOT NEED UAE to develop LTS. If they want a share in the business, fine, if not, fine too, it will be a bit bigger financial effort for Russia but also more profits for them.

If Rostec was going to finance the speculative development of 5th gen fighters, I'm sure that MiG would've already done it before.

 

[Scar]

Russia does NOT NEED UAE to develop LTS. If they want a share in the business, fine, if not, fine too, it will be a bit bigger financial effort for Russia but also more profits for them.

If Rostec was going to finance the speculative development of 5th gen fighters, I'm sure that MiG would've already done it before.

The only thing MiG was really doing in the prior 30 years is MiG-29 remastering. In contrast to Sukhoi, with its phenomenally popular Su-30MK*, MiG simply had no money, neither from commercial export sales nor from the governement.

 

[trose213]

The only thing MiG was really doing in the prior 30 years is MiG-29 remastering. In contrast to Sukhoi, with its phenomenally popular Su-30MK*, MiG simply had no money, neither from commercial export sales nor from the governement.

The problem for both Sukhoi and MiG is that 4th generation derivatives are no longer cutting it for them. It might work for Boeing and Rafale. Either way, both need someone to finance 5th generation fighter development, which takes a considerable amount of cash. Sukhoi has the Su-57, but that doesn't translate to a single engine fighter.

 

[LMFS]

I just wish people in ruskie MIC would stop counting the chicks before they hatch. They need to quiet down and show results. They certainly CAN do this in spite of all the pressure against them. Sukhoi is one of the best. Now they need to roll up sleeves and get to work. No more propaganda.

Don't really know what you are talking about. While we see crude plywood mockups of European and British so-called 6th gen fighters which change after every propaganda stunt and have been seeing "artist interpretations" and hearing speculation about the NGAD for years and years, the Russians did nothing of the like and just presented a model in metal which is already designed and is going to be stuffed and expected to fly in two years. They already did all that design work and got it approved by UAC, Rostec and the Government before we even knew what were they up to, so their "propaganda over work" levels are orders of magnitude below the industry standard at this stage.

If Rostec was going to finance the speculative development of 5th gen fighters, I'm sure that MiG would've already done it before.

If Rostec "was" going to finance? They are already financing the LTS. And speculative is only in your mind, it is already designed, internally assessed and with the blessing from all the relevant echelons of decision making in the country. Reading the actual news instead of feeding oneself with wishful thinking is a good thing...

The problem for both Sukhoi and MiG is that 4th generation derivatives are no longer cutting it for them. It might work for Boeing and Rafale.

Care checking comparative sales of late?

Either way, both need someone to finance 5th generation fighter development, which takes a considerable amount of cash.

You seem keen on raising eyebrows... on the one hand, they have said that the actual development of the LTS is not going to demand a lot of money, because they will reuse a lot of technology, systems and components from the Su-57. On the other, Rostec have said that the resources for the development of the plane are ensured. So we can say that you are 100% wrong, congrats.

Sukhoi has the Su-57, but that doesn't translate to a single engine fighter.

See above, it indeed translates into it to a very big extent. LTS uses the same tech and systems and even the same engine, wing and tail. It even uses the same main weapon bay... it is probably, by far, the most intensive case of tech reuse from one plane to another in recent memory.

 

[trose213]

Don't really know what you are talking about. While we see crude plywood mockups of European and British so-called 6th gen fighters which change after every propaganda stunt and have been seeing "artist interpretations" and hearing speculation about the NGAD for years and years, the Russians did nothing of the like and just presented a model in metal which is already designed and is going to be stuffed and expected to fly in two years. They already did all that design work and got it approved by UAC, Rostec and the Government before we even knew what were they up to, so their "propaganda over work" levels are orders of magnitude below the industry standard at this stage.

The real difference between the European and British programs is that they have real money committed for the development. Frankly, speaking you've misread what the goal of the program has been and by who. I'll let you in on the obvious secret that it's main purpose in existence has been for the UAE to gain access to the F-35, and that's been largely achieved.

If Rostec "was" going to finance? They are already financing the LTS.

Seven or very low eight figures have been committed, not the 10 to get the plane designed and tested. Rostec didn't even provide all the initial funding, the UAE provided a lot. Do you really believe that Rostec is going to commit massive amounts, when they couldn't even find the capital commit for the conceptual design stage, which is by far the cheapest and easiest to complete. In what reality, would building a new stealth fighter make sense when the one you have currently can't be fielded in sufficient numbers?

actual development of the LTS is not going to demand a lot of money

If you believe this I have several bridges that are up for sale. Sukhoi neither has any aircraft developer on Earth has proven that they can develop a 5th generation aircraft for under a $1 billion.

 

[helmutkohl]

Don't really know what you are talking about. While we see crude plywood mockups of European and British so-called 6th gen fighters which change after every propaganda stunt and have been seeing "artist interpretations" and hearing speculation about the NGAD for years and years, the Russians did nothing of the like and just presented a model in metal which is already designed and is going to be stuffed and expected to fly in two years. They already did all that design work and got it approved by UAC, Rostec and the Government before we even knew what were they up to, so their "propaganda over work" levels are orders of magnitude below the industry standard at this stage.

The real difference between the European and British programs is that they have real money committed for the development. Frankly, speaking you've misread what the goal of the program has been and by who. I'll let you in on the obvious secret that it's main purpose in existence has been for the UAE to gain access to the F-35, and that's been largely achieved.

If Rostec "was" going to finance? They are already financing the LTS.

Seven or very low eight figures have been committed, not the 10 to get the plane designed and tested. Rostec didn't even provide all the initial funding, the UAE provided a lot. Do you really believe that Rostec is going to commit massive amounts, when they couldn't even find the capital commit for the conceptual design stage, which is by far the cheapest and easiest to complete. In what reality, would building a new stealth fighter make sense when the one you have currently can't be fielded in sufficient numbers?

actual development of the LTS is not going to demand a lot of money

If you believe this I have several bridges that are up for sale. Sukhoi neither has any aircraft developer on Earth has proven that they can develop a 5th generation aircraft for under a $1 billion.

to summarize, the UAE paid UAC to create a mock up, so they could get some leverage on the F-35?

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

What UAE intended to do with their investment is a moot point at this stage - it doesn't seem likely they will be buying the Checkmate.

With the MiG MFI, the intent was always to create a lightweight LFI from the same technology base afterwards. So that's not unusual. That's what the F-16 did to some extent (engine at least), and the JSF/ F-35 (derived engine, stealth, sensors) before it got a bit gold-plated.

The 'Checkmate' may still get built, depending on a number of factors. The Su-57 is a bit too much for many Russian customers. Regarding Checkmate as a 6th generation fighter is a stretch though.

 

[Scar]

The only thing MiG was really doing in the prior 30 years is MiG-29 remastering. In contrast to Sukhoi, with its phenomenally popular Su-30MK*, MiG simply had no money, neither from commercial export sales nor from the governement.

The problem for both Sukhoi and MiG is that 4th generation derivatives are no longer cutting it for them. It might work for Boeing and Rafale. Either way, both need someone to finance 5th generation fighter development, which takes a considerable amount of cash. Sukhoi has the Su-57, but that doesn't translate to a single engine fighter.

I wasn't talking about 4-th gen. sales today. In previous 25 years Su-30 sales allowed Sukhoi to keep personnel really busy and even bring the new blood to bureau, as well as maintaining R&D, which, in turn, allowed Sukhoi to win in PAK FA competition.

But now this all is not significant, since few days ago UAC, Sukhoi and MiG were merged completely, under the dome of state-owned corporaation Rostec, that's financing LTS: https://www.akm.ru/eng/news/the-boa...c-approved-the-merger-of-uac-sukhoi-and-mig-/

 

[LMFS]

The real difference between the European and British programs is that they have real money committed for the development.

And Russia doesn't, because you say it. No more questions Sir

Frankly, speaking you've misread what the goal of the program has been and by who. I'll let you in on the obvious secret that it's main purpose in existence has been for the UAE to gain access to the F-35, and that's been largely achieved.

Aha, let me understand: the UAE used the whole Russian state as pawns so they could get their fingers onto the F-35, without the poor idiots noticing. And now that the goal is achieved, the LTS is dead in the water and nothing will come out of it. This looks like a post worth keeping for later...

Seven or very low eight figures have been committed, not the 10 to get the plane designed and tested.

They have said they will have three prototypes for 2023 with which they will do the flight testing. Since they are working with lots of virtual testing and proven technologies and elements from the Su-57, it is not unreasonable to think that they don't need the same number of prototypes used for the PAK-FA, specially when they say that they can be trough with it in 2-4 years, instead of almost 10. From where do you pull the number of prototypes needed for testing is beyond my reach.

Rostec didn't even provide all the initial funding, the UAE provided a lot.

Happy to see your sources and figures. UAE signed a LOI with MiG to cooperate in the development of a light weight 5th gen fighter, that is what was communicated some years ago, without further details that I have seen, and no money being spent or firm contract being signed. What do they have to do with the early financing of Sukhoi's LTS would be news to me, since UAC/Rostec said this was their own initiative and paid with their money and that of Ministry of Industry.

Do you really believe that Rostec is going to commit massive amounts, when they couldn't even find the capital commit for the conceptual design stage, which is by far the cheapest and easiest to complete.

I don't have a clue where do you take this nonsense from, my recommendation is for you to read about the Checkmate program from TASS and not from F-16.net

In what reality, would building a new stealth fighter make sense when the one you have currently can't be fielded in sufficient numbers?

What I know is in what reality some people keep parading their ignorance instead of being ashamed of it.
1) What is sufficient numbers? The amount that you decide, or the one VKS decides?
2) Su-57 is in serial production, the line is being optimized and currently churning out low volumes (1 last year as last of the 2 units pilot run, 4 this year and more the following ones). But they will never be producing like the US because they don't work like the US. They keep the production lines open and rarely do they surpass one squadron per year, but they keep producing for decades. So not everything needs to work as self obsessed Westerners think.
3) Obviously the reason for a light fighter is to complement your heavy ones and grow the fleet at a lower price

If you believe this I have several bridges that are up for sale. Sukhoi neither has any aircraft developer on Earth has proven that they can develop a 5th generation aircraft for under a $1 billion.

Nobody has given any concrete number, so I don't know how much will it cost, but if you think Russia does not have 1B, I have a nice red bridge in San Francisco that may interest you...

to summarize, the UAE paid UAC to create a mock up, so they could get some leverage on the F-35?

Yeah, that is what he said. This one takes the prize, really...

 

[kaiserd]

It’s clear that the UAE were never actually very likely to actually buy a Russian fighter so if the Russians saw them as a launch customer and/or development partner for the Checkmate (and that’s a speculative “if” - I’m not aware of hard information on that) then that was always unrealistic.

This does speak to a wider issue for the Checkmate and the various claims being made for it. Based on what official comments made it appears primarily targeted to export customers but there are no announced export customers/ partners.

Why?

If there are all of these potential eager export customers why aren’t they some of them publicly proudly announced, participating (even in a limited extent) in development etc.? If there was very solid commitment for a substantial number of aircraft why wouldn’t that relevant country already announce that? How many of the potential customers don’t already have relatively young Flanker variants or already commuted to other non-Russian alternatives?

Arguably Russia itself has a relatively young new-build Flanker variant fleet and has other expensive priorities (Su-57, new bombers, etc). It may have an interest in a Checkmate class aircraft but likely not in any numbers, at least for the short-medium term. And would a small initial orders from Russia and/or from a small number of export customers really be enough to make it viable in any normal sense?

Hence until they start announcing actual Checkmate customers/ partners it’s not clear how much it is or is not a product in search of a customer/ viability.

If some contributors here are happy for the Russian state to fund a speculative project in the hope that it can over an extended time garner sufficient export customers to remotely justify the resources invested then fair enough. But jingoistic nationalism and magic reasoning doesn’t strengthen that argument.

 

[Geo]

"It’s clear that the UAE were never actually very likely to actually buy a Russian fighter"

- undoubtedly;

- and when it comes to "relatively young new-build Flankers", the LTS has been designed from the beginning as a suitable addition to these aircraft. The people at UAC aren't stupid enough to do a thorough market analysis before they start investing milion or even billions of dollars;

- they know very well that NG light aircraft are/will be in demand in Vietnam, Kazakhstan, Myanmar, Algeria ... potentially Iran, Uzbekistan in the future ... These are in themselves large and growing markets for the next 20 to 30 years.

 

[Evgeniy]

Why?

CAATSA.

 

[Evgeniy]

Ok.
The point is that if the UAE were a start-up customer, the development would be based on Arab investments (via Mubadala Investment) and contractual technical cooperation (Tawazun and Edge Group), which Rostec is already negotiating.

Not necessarily. The links above show that the aircraft itself is funded internally. But this does not prevent us from having the UAE as a starting customer. do not forget that according to official statements, the aircraft should be delivered from 2026. That is, in four years.
Plus, the real terms of the first contract are not publicly announced.
The United Arab Emirates (or someone else), except for the same CAATSA, does not interfere with buying an aircraft "after the fact", its manufacture and thereby compensating the costs of its production.

This is one of the reasons why Iran bought "only" Tor-M1, although Pantsir-S1 also wanted at the time.

Now is not the time.

 

[Scar]

How many of the potential customers don’t already have relatively young Flanker variants or already commuted to other non-Russian alternatives?

You do realise Flanker is a heavy fighter jet, right? Now calculate, how many aged MIG-21/23/27/29 are still in service in Russia, India, Algeria, Vietnam, Kazakhstan, Egypt, Peru + some other countries.

And here we go again, just like 19 years ago, when PAK FA program started: "Russia can't...its efforts are futile...vaporware..." etc.

 

[Josh_TN]

Is the MiG-29 still used in Russia outside the naval version? I was under the impression 27/23/21 were all out of service. If so, what aircraft would LTS replace in Russian service?

 

[Evgeniy]

If so, what aircraft would LTS replace in Russian service?

Su-17. (and not only its natural. But the shock capabilities on the ground look pretty decent).

Is the MiG-29 still used in Russia outside the naval version?

The MiG-29SMT did not go anywhere.
Personally, in my opinion, I would not write off the MiG-35. It is unlikely that anyone would have strained because of the six cars. But this is so, thinking out loud.

 

[Geo]

"Now is not the time."


About that you're right:

Iran has now Majid, Dezful, 9th Dey, Zoobin(!), Oghab, Separ... and direct combat experience from Lebanon, Syria, Gaza and Yemen with state-of-the-art Western, Israeli and Chinese strike systems.

 

[GARGEAN]

Su-17.

In russian service?..

 

[Evgeniy]

In russian service?..

Well, let's put it this way: a strike aircraft is also needed. Moreover, in the niche in which there used to be Su-17s, which have long been gone. But they are needed.
Su-17 no. MiG-27 no. Su-25 remained, but for how long? Ten years and that's it. The further conclusion is obvious.
And the basis of the fleet of fighter aircraft should nevertheless be precisely a heavy machine.

 

[Scar]

Is the MiG-29 still used in Russia outside the naval version?

Yes, it is. And most of them are old 9-12 model.

Фотография самолёта · Микоян-Гуревич · МиГ-29А (9.12А) · RF-92177 · Россия (СССР) - ВВС

Фотография самолёта. Разработчик: Микоян-Гуревич, модификация: МиГ-29А (9.12А), бортовой номер: RF-92177, оператор: Россия (СССР) - ВВС, место съёмки: ! Прочее - Россия !, фотограф: Даниил Попов (c)

russianplanes.net

 

[stealthflanker]

Yeah, those old 9.12 can be replaced with Checkmate.

 

[Hydroman]

What UAE intended to do with their investment is a moot point at this stage - it doesn't seem likely they will be buying the Checkmate.

With the MiG MFI, the intent was always to create a lightweight LFI from the same technology base afterwards. So that's not unusual. That's what the F-16 did to some extent (engine at least), and the JSF/ F-35 (derived engine, stealth, sensors) before it got a bit gold-plated.

The 'Checkmate' may still get built, depending on a number of factors. The Su-57 is a bit too much for many Russian customers. Regarding Checkmate as a 6th generation fighter is a stretch though.

Hi overscan, Checkmate is definitely a Russian design.

 

[TMA1]

It’s clear that the UAE were never actually very likely to actually buy a Russian fighter so if the Russians saw them as a launch customer and/or development partner for the Checkmate (and that’s a speculative “if” - I’m not aware of hard information on that) then that was always unrealistic.

This does speak to a wider issue for the Checkmate and the various claims being made for it. Based on what official comments made it appears primarily targeted to export customers but there are no announced export customers/ partners.

Why?

If there are all of these potential eager export customers why aren’t they some of them publicly proudly announced, participating (even in a limited extent) in development etc.? If there was very solid commitment for a substantial number of aircraft why wouldn’t that relevant country already announce that? How many of the potential customers don’t already have relatively young Flanker variants or already commuted to other non-Russian alternatives?

Arguably Russia itself has a relatively young new-build Flanker variant fleet and has other expensive priorities (Su-57, new bombers, etc). It may have an interest in a Checkmate class aircraft but likely not in any numbers, at least for the short-medium term. And would a small initial orders from Russia and/or from a small number of export customers really be enough to make it viable in any normal sense?

Hence until they start announcing actual Checkmate customers/ partners it’s not clear how much it is or is not a product in search of a customer/ viability.

If some contributors here are happy for the Russian state to fund a speculative project in the hope that it can over an extended time garner sufficient export customers to remotely justify the resources invested then fair enough. But jingoistic nationalism and magic reasoning doesn’t strengthen that argument.

the irony here is I'd be called a jingoistic nationalist for America by many on this board, and I'm the russian jets fanboy!

 

[LMFS]

If some contributors here are happy for the Russian state to fund a speculative project in the hope that it can over an extended time garner sufficient export customers to remotely justify the resources invested then fair enough. But jingoistic nationalism and magic reasoning doesn’t strengthen that argument.

Your uninformed gossip is not even reaching the level of contribution. Same old questioning of Russian projects from "jingoistic nationalist" people with zero credentials, that do not look or respect the original sources and that are discredited time after time after time by facts don't make a solid argument either. Time will put us all in our place, rest assured.

Yeah, those old 9.12 can be replaced with Checkmate.

The LTS has almost the same payload / range figures of the Su-30SM. And of course the VKS is today a pale shadow of what the RF would need to properly cover the country's territory from all possible conflict directions in a proper way. Strelets has already said that the Syrian experience demonstrates that heavy twin engine fighters are overkill for most missions, and on top of that the LTS will come in an unmanned version that can increasingly and seamlessly integrate in the squadrons of the air force to allow transitioning to the unmanned combat force without the need to develop a new platform. So the idea with the LTS is not to look for what of the current planes can be substituted with it and then make an estimation of the possible ordered numbers, but what is the force planing that the Su-57 / Okhotnik and manned and unmanned LTS can constitute and at what price, compared to other options. Of course the Su-57 remains the most capable, air superiority fighter in the mix, with the LTS covering the lower level missions but providing the operational effectiveness that will allow the VKS to grow. Ideally the number of the light fighters should be substantially bigger than the heavier ones. Many air bases are being reconditioned as we speak, so this growth is indeed in the plans.

And here we go again, just like 19 years ago, when PAK FA program started: "Russia can't...its efforts are futile...vaporware..." etc.

And more brazen even, the people which were dismissing it with the same disingenuous arguments and were proven wrong time after time still consider their opinion about Russian programs to carry a lot of weight. Every opinion counts folks, even being wrong all of the time you can also consider yourself experts

 

[TR1]

IIRC there are a few 9.12s in training units, that is it. 9.13s remain in Armenia...and there are ~50 SMTs the VKS has on hand.

Although earlier plans were to replace the Gumri birds with Su-30SMs, and the Kursk-based SMTs seem to be grounded after the base got its new Su-30SMs.

 

[trose213]

I don't have a clue where do you take this nonsense from, my recommendation is for you to read about the Checkmate program from TASS and not from F-16.net

One is overrun with ignorant fanboys, which hopefully won't be the case on this site, and the other promised us 100s of Armatas would be fielded by now. So if it's in TASS, more than likely it's not going to end up being true.

Aha, let me understand: the UAE used the whole Russian state as pawns so they could get their fingers onto the F-35, without the poor idiots noticing. And now that the goal is achieved, the LTS is dead in the water and nothing will come out of it. This looks like a post worth keeping for later...

Why would Sukhoi care, they're getting development contracts out of the deal? Are they not planning on trying to sell to the UAE? Is that why they put significant work into their display at Dubai?

They have said they will have three prototypes for 2023 with which they will do the flight testing

I was talking about financial figures. Prototypes have no bearing on whether a project proceeds or not. EMD does.

UAC/Rostec said this was their own initiative and paid with their money and that of Ministry of Industry

With what money? Can you link to where they have allocated the money for the program and the balance sheet to show where they actually have the money?

They keep the production lines open and rarely do they surpass one squadron per year, but they keep producing for decades.

Rostec doesn't believe in economies of scale?

you think Russia does not have 1B

What happened to Rostec funding the plane? Not enough money on the balance sheet.

 

[LMFS]

So if it's in TASS, more than likely it's not going to end up being true.

TASS is one of a few official news agencies where you find reliable information, both in the sense of being an accurate transmission of what officials say and of being truthful. That you say most of what they say is a lie just proves how clueless you are and how proud you are of it. As to this Armata fallacy of yours, should we conclude US media is just a bunch of fraudsters because of, for instance, the delays in JSF?

Why would Sukhoi care, they're getting development contracts out of the deal? Are they not planning on trying to sell to the UAE? Is that why they put significant work into their display at Dubai?

Do not even know what you are trying to say with that. Your original point was that the whole Checkmate was started because of UAE's interest of putting pressure on the US, so now UAE finally managed to cunningly get the F-35, LTS is dead. So depending on the actual development of the program, we will see if you were right or just saying BS.

I was talking about financial figures. Prototypes have no bearing on whether a project proceeds or not. EMD does.

1. You were talking about them not having ten prototypes, period.
2. Prototypes are a need and a sign of a development program, your speculation is not
3. US MIC's EMD does not exist in Russia, stop applying your categories to those who don't care about them

With what money? Can you link to where they have allocated the money for the program and the balance sheet to show where they actually have the money?

Hahahaha, that is funny. Do you think I need to prove you they have money for the LTS program? Who you take yourself for, some kind of auditor of Russia's MIC? I can care about you saying BS and intoxicating a public place, but I don't give a damn about some random guy believing in the program or not. If you want to check Rostec/UAC/Sukhoi balance sheet, you can check their investor's public information. Good luck finding the money for military and strategic programs disclosed and detailed in public information...

Rostec doesn't believe in economies of scale?

Rostec is a public company and their main customer for military products is the MoD. They know economies of scale and that is the reason why the military are implementing long term contracts so that the industry has bigger orders and more security to plan their resources for a long period of time. But the production is never very big at any point in time and its sustaining in time is preferred The other way, to create a huge production at a huge cost and then close it shortly thereafter as US MIC works is incomparably worse from an economic, qualitative and state security point of view.

What happened to Rostec funding the plane? Not enough money on the balance sheet.

What are you talking about? First, they ARE funding the plane. Second, what is enough money? And third, do you even know how much does Rostec makes a year? When you are accusing Rostec and UAC of being liars that don't have the money for the program, even if they say that it is funded and not dependent on foreign sponsors, it is you that has to do the work and provide the evidence...

 

[Josh_TN]

Things seem a touch heated. How about we just wait for developments rather than spinning our wheels? I admit that I was initially quite doubtful (putting it mildly; I stated the plane would never fly), but posters here have made good arguments that Su-57 delays were about re-establishing infrastructure and not connected to money, and that the Russian state must be financing this for it to exist. I'm a huge skeptic, but the arguments seem fairly sound and I'm willing to wait it out. I would still maintain that the timeline seems hugely optimistic regardless of recycling of parts - integration still costs time and money - but let's see.

 

[trose213]

Things seem a touch heated.

Without breaking the rules by bringing politics into it, it's a hilarious waste of time trying to debate someone who believes that TASS is a credible source. Can't wait for those Liders in the water!

 

[TR1]

Things seem a touch heated.

Without breaking the rules by bringing politics into it, it's a hilarious waste of time trying to debate someone who believes that TASS is a credible source. Can't wait for those Liders in the water!

What did TASS say about Lider that dismantles their credibility?

TASS just publishes what they hear from the government or industry officials.

 

[Scar]

Speaking about credibility. Remember, guys, i pointed at the mistake TASS made in their special report on LTS Checkmate? Where they confused F-35 combat radius with its range. I wrote them a letter and on the next day, when i visited their website to check if there is any reaction on the reader's feedback, that mistake has already been fixed.

Spoiler: Here is the text of the letter i wrote, in Russian, of course.

Здравствуйте.

В конце статьи вашего спецпроекта «Истребитель «Су» — CHECKMATE» допущена фактическая/техническая ошибка. В таблице характеристик для конкурента F-35 указана не дальность, а боевой радиус, который равен половине дальности. Исправьте, а то это делает плохую рекламу и паблисити всей затее Ростеха.

На данную ошибку уже указывают в зарубежных околоавиационных и военных сообществах, и она дает почву для инсинуаций и обвинений во вранье и нечестной конкуренции, через очевидную потасовку цифр технических характеристик.

Дальность F-35A все-равно меньше, чем у нашей машины. Так зачем же давать конкурентам информационные козыри, вредящие репутации нашей машины?!

Дальность самого массового варианта американской машины, F-35A, который и является основным конкурентом нашей машины на внешних рынках, составляет примерно 2200 километров(1200 морских миль 1200*1,853=2223,6км), то есть всё-равно на 600км меньше чем у нашей машины. Проверить данные по дальности американской машины можете на официальных сайтах ВВС США и ВВС Австралии:

https://www.af.mil/About-Us/Fact-Sheets/Display/Article/478441/f-35a-lightning-ii/
https://www.airforce.gov.au/technology/f-35a-specifications

 

[Rhinocrates]

One thing that's been bugging me: how is that intake likely to perform at high AOA? For comparison, one can see the change that was made to Boeing's X-32.

 

[Alifzero]

I found this tweet about Checkmate analysis from China academic. Sadly its not properly threaded so it will be hard to find the next part in the future. So i upload complete picts here.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1467735757062230016

View: https://mobile.twitter.com/CN_military_21/status/1467735757062230016

 

[Alifzero]

One thing that's been bugging me: how is that intake likely to perform at high AOA? For comparison, one can see the change that was made to Boeing's X-32.

While its not specificly about the intake on high AoA, here a CFD sim on Checkmate at high AoA

View: https://youtu.be/BRQKI3PVxXE


To mod : i try to search this video here, but i found nothing while keep remembering this as repost. If it is, please delete this post.

 

[Scar]

how is that intake likely to perform at high AOA?

I presume sufficiently well, given the fact even the base model of LTS is supposed to be equipped with TVC.

 

[paralay]

Speaking about credibility. Remember, guys, i pointed at the mistake TASS made in their special report on LTS Checkmate? Where they confused F-35 combat radius with its range. I wrote them a letter and on the next day, when i visited their website to check if there is any reaction on the reader's feedback, that mistake has already been fixed.

Дальность самого массового варианта американской машины, F-35A, который и является основным конкурентом нашей машины на внешних рынках, составляет примерно 2200 километров(1200 морских миль 1200*1,853=2223,6км)

Now it is clear who is misleading the respected telegraph agency
The flight range of the F-35A announced by the latter is 2752 km, naturally in miles

 

[LMFS]

One thing that's been bugging me: how is that intake likely to perform at high AOA? For comparison, one can see the change that was made to Boeing's X-32.

A ventral intake has the nose diverting the airflow to the engine, that is why they are ok for high AoA while dorsal ones are basically a no-go

Now it is clear who is misleading the respected telegraph agency
The flight range of the F-35A announced by the latter is 2752 km, naturally in miles

From what we know the range of the LTS with internal weapons is >2800 km, which is essentially identical to the A2A-loaded range of the F-35. Other metrics given for the F-35 are not really compatible with Russian typical max range on internal fuel to make a comparison. For LTS seems nevertheless to exist some uncertainty or maybe different engine / load / flight profile considerations, since we have seen official figures between 2800 and 3000 km.