Soviet SMK-2 Heavy Tank

eltf177

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Just perusing my photocopy of Zaloga's SOVIET TANKS AND COMBAT VEHICLES OF WORLD WAR II last night and saw something I'd missed before.

There is mention of the SMK-2, a modification of the SMK heavy tank (developed concurrently with the T-100 heavy tank, only one prototype of each being completed along with some other chassis being converted into SPG's which also were not accepted into service). My guess is with the pressure of the Winter War, worry about Germany and work on both the KV-1/2 and the T-34 little if any work was done.

Does anyone know anything about this project; what modifications were to be made, armor, armament?

Thanks in advance.
 

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Hull of SMK 1st version with 3 turrets
159a4fc0c948.jpg

002.jpg

And story of making plastic model of it
After Winter War 1939-1940 there were plans to develop SMK-based SPGs with 152mm/L40 Br-2 or 180mm gun. It`s not clear - it was 180mm/L57 B-1-P of Kirov-class cruiser, or experimental 180mm/L40 Br-21 based on Br-2.
Armor - about 60-70mm
Combat weight - less than 65 tons
Armor penetration - 150-160mm
Сoncrete penetration - 1,5m

Another variant - instalation of 130mm B-13 navy gun (SU-100Y).
 

Iron Felix

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From "Soviet heavy tanks 1917-1940":
"Parents" of SMK and T-100, based on T-35:
IMG_20200115_095432.jpg
T-51, 1937, Leningrad, plant №185. 50-55 t, armour 15, 20, 30, 75 mm, one 76.2 mm gun, two 45 mm guns, seven 7.62 mm DT machine guns, one flamethrower.
...
IMG_20200115_095512.jpg
1938, Kharkov, plant №183. Armour 12, 25, 45, 74 mm, stalibizated scopes "Orion", underwater driving with depth to 6 metres, commander's cupola (but, I don't see on drawings), two radio, crew - 10 mans.
...
"Brothers" of SMK and T-100, "Object 115", 1938-1939:
IMG_20200115_095816.jpg
Leningrad, plant №185. In convertible variants - 33-42 t, in "normal" - 32-40 t, armour - 20, 30, 40, 50 mm. Main turret - 76.2 mm L-10 gun, 12.7 mm DShK HMG, 7.62 mm DT MG, maximum elevation of gun - 70°, ammunition - 76 shells. Small turrets - one 45 mm gun + DT MG, or, one DT MG. Three variants, 1x76.2 mm + MGs, 1x76.2 mm + 1x45 mm + MGs, 1x76.2 mm + 2x45 mm + MGs. 715 HP M-17F engine, 42-50 kmph, range 100-140 km.
IMG_20200115_095847.jpg
LKZ. 40 t (maybe, weight of light variant), armour - full 60 mm. Main turret - 76.2 mm gun (maybe, also L-10), and, commander's cupola. Small turrets - one 45 mm gun + DT MG, or, one 12.7 mm DShK HMG + DT MG. Variants - 1x76.2 mm + MGs, or, 1x76.2 mm + 2x45 mm + MGs. 800 HP diesel engine, 40 kmph, range 350-400 km.
...
I know about heavy tanks based on T-100, but, I forgot, where is I found this information:
- T-100S - like a T-100Y (SU-100Y), 152 mm Br-2 gun
- T-100V - like a T-100Z, 203 mm B-4 gun in turret
...
And, also, Br-2 was a L/40 or L/47.2? 180 mm Br-21 based on tube of 152 mm Br-2, lenght of standart Br-2 barrel - L/47.2, or 7170 mm.
And, I thread about B-1-P on SMK base. It's more logical than Br-21. Problem of Br-21 - unique shells, and, without use of naval 180 mm shells. B-1-P was a more powerful gun, I think, for SPG it was a more interesting.
...
Also, data of armour penetration of Br-2 and B-13:
Br-2 - 155 mm (0°) on 2300 m
B-13 - 130 mm (0°) on 4000 m
 

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1938, Kharkov, plant №183. Armour 12, 25, 45, 74 mm, stalibizated scopes "Orion", underwater driving with depth to 6 metres, commander's cupola (but, I don't see on drawings), two radio, crew - 10 mans.

There is one more project with 5 turrets.

...
"Brothers" of SMK and T-100, "Object 115", 1938-1939 LKZ. 40 t (maybe, weight of light variant), armour - full 60 mm. Main turret - 76.2 mm gun (maybe, also L-10), and, commander's cupola. Small turrets - one 45 mm gun + DT MG, or, one 12.7 mm DShK HMG + DT MG. Variants - 1x76.2 mm + MGs, or, 1x76.2 mm + 2x45 mm + MGs. 800 HP diesel engine, 40 kmph, range 350-400 km.
I think it`s incorrect info from Solyankin`s book (and i`m too lazy to check info about T-115 #185 plant and heavy tank projects:))

T-115 is a successor of T-29 program - medium convertible tanks. LKZ-version in fact has another designation T-29ЦН (or T-29TzN in eng). It`s unclear what`s mean this TzN. Mayby after first letters of N.N. Tzeytz - chief engeneer of project, or ЦН - means Цементированная Наклонная Броня (TzN - cemented sloped armor).
Combat weight -35,5t, armor - 30mm (side) to 50mm (front). 76,2mm gun L-10 in main turret and 2x 12,7mm DK HMG in small turrets, 5x 7,62 DT mg. Engine - M-17F 675hp, range - 160km on tracks or 200km on wheels

Source (and there is somthing strange in this project about combat weights and suspension describe)
Project of torsion bar suspension for T-29

1793994_original.jpg


I know about heavy tanks based on T-100, but, I forgot, where is I found this information:
- T-100S - like a T-100Y (SU-100Y), 152 mm Br-2 gun
- T-100V - like a T-100Z, 203 mm B-4 gun in turret
i think it`s a fake from russian wikipedia

All T-100 based projects:
X,Y and T-103 have 130mm B-13 gun.
p82.jpg

152mm main turret of T-100Z was used at defensive line near Leningrad.

s640x480


Br-2 - you are right. It has burrel length L47.

About Br-21 or B-1-P for SMK and T-100 based SPG

Br-2 total combat weight was about 18t, without carriage (as it was installed on SU-14 or projected for Object 212) - about 8,2 tons. Br-21 is lighter - barrel with breech - 5350kg vs 5720kg for Br-2. Other parts (recoil system, etc) - 1 by 1.
B-1-P barrel and breech - about 17,3 tons. Total weight of burrel, recoil system, base, etc - about 27 tons. It`s too much for chassis.

But without documents it`s only my guess.
 

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About Br-21 or B-1-P for SMK and T-100 based SPG

Br-2 total combat weight was about 18t, without carriage (as it was installed on SU-14 or projected for Object 212) - about 8,2 tons. Br-21 is lighter - barrel with breech - 5350kg vs 5720kg for Br-2. Other parts (recoil system, etc) - 1 by 1.
B-1-P barrel and breech - about 17,3 tons. Total weight of burrel, recoil system, base, etc - about 27 tons. It`s too much for chassis.

But without documents it`s only my guess.

In book "T-35: land dreadnouth of Red Army", Kolomoliets and Svirin, told about reduced armour for 180 mm SPG on SMK base, "to not be overweight". And, I remind, Germans projected analogical machine, Geschutzwagen, based on Tiger II, with powerful 170 mm gun.
 

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Felix, it seems to me you speak Ru?)
Just be careful: there are many questions to M.Svirin`s information. Many authors repeat different statements after him, and sometimes it appears it were total fake.

About 180mm SPG.
It`s true: they suggest to redesign chassis (in Object 212 style but with 8 wheels?) and reduce armor, but as for me - SMK even after that has no weight limits for B-1-P. Mayby something like SU-14-1 is possible.

Anyway - in 1941 this request was cancelled.

17cm K18 is 17,5 tons in combat mod - just like Br-2. But original Tiger 2 has 68 tons and 80-150mm of armor to reduce it. SMK was only 60mm. There is almost nothing to reduce)))
 

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Felix, it seems to me you speak Ru?)
Just be careful: there are many questions to M.Svirin`s information. Many authors repeat different statements after him, and sometimes it appears it were total fake.

About 180mm SPG.
It`s true: they suggest to redesign chassis (in Object 212 style but with 8 wheels?) and reduce armor, but as for me - SMK even after that has no weight limits for B-1-P. Mayby something like SU-14-1 is possible.

Anyway - in 1941 this request was cancelled.

17cm K18 is 17,5 tons in combat mod - just like Br-2. But original Tiger 2 has 68 tons and 80-150mm of armor to reduce it. SMK was only 60mm. There is almost nothing to reduce)))

Yes, I speak Ru.
I know about problems of Svirin's information.
About weight of K72 (K17 in GW) and Br-2 - I can't found information of barrel. In standart Br-2 use very massive caterpillar base. And, K72 was a more powerful than Br-2, by weight of shell - 71 vs 49 kg, and by muzzle velocity - 925 mps vs 880 mps. Also, lenght of 172.5 mm K72 barrel - L/50, it's 8625 mm vs 7170 mm.
Weight of armour of SMK ~30 ton. If reduce armoured from 60-75 mm to 30-35 mm. It was a normal armour for 1940-41. German Geschutzwagen was 40-60 mm, in 1942-1944.
 

eltf177

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Thanks for all the information! I'm glad I didn't ask about the KV-4, which had what...something like two dozen different designs?
 

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Some info about Object 212
And my compilation of hulls weight of soviet heavy tanks
(in Ru)
SMK hull weights 31 tons with turrets.
Br-2 mount with ammo - 17,6 tons.

212`s hull weights about 27 tons cause of large casemat. And its combat weight was 65tons with 50-60mm armor.
SMK is longer, B-1-P is bigger and heavier. Even with 30-35mm armor it will be at least 70-75 tons IMHO.

Thanks for all the information! I'm glad I didn't ask about the KV-4, which had what...something like two dozen different designs?
27 projects. Look here
 

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About 180 mm...
1046347_900.jpg
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1046198_900.jpg
You can see - 70-ton machines, based on two T-34 tanks, 210 mm cannon (L50) and 305 mm hovitzer. "Weight of artillery section - 25 ton". Weight of 180 mm B-1-P (L60) barrel - 18.5 ton, lenght 10.66 m. Lenght of 210 mm L/50 barrel - 10.416 m. By proportions, 25 ton - weight of 210 mm barrel. Potential, possible to create a 180 mm SPG on this base in weight 63.5 ton.
 

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About 180 mm...
View attachment 629132
View attachment 629135
View attachment 629133
View attachment 629134
You can see - 70-ton machines, based on two T-34 tanks, 210 mm cannon (L50) and 305 mm hovitzer. "Weight of artillery section - 25 ton". Weight of 180 mm B-1-P (L60) barrel - 18.5 ton, lenght 10.66 m. Lenght of 210 mm L/50 barrel - 10.416 m. By proportions, 25 ton - weight of 210 mm barrel. Potential, possible to create a 180 mm SPG on this base in weight 63.5 ton.

Unfortunately, the T-34 hulls were not synchronized, so each hull had to have a driver. Kinda sucks in my opinion.
 

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I found requirements, prepared by GABTU (Glavnoye AvtoBroneTankovoe Upravleniye - Main Auto Armour Tank Directorate), June 1940 (pencil notes - from 1941):
image_4facd2178011f.jpg
image_4facd2c75e636.jpg
image_4facd2f1a2c2f.jpg
"Montage of 152 mm Br-2 gun on SMK tank"
"Create SPG based on SMK with 180 mm gun, if need - redesing a chassis and, for reduce weight - reduce armour"
Br-21 wasn't a more heavy than Br-2. You can see, about Br-2 on SMK not mentioned a redesign of chassis or reduce of armour.
 

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