SNCASE (Sud-Est) SE.1800

SlickDriver

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I came across the 1946 SE-1800 for a supersonic transport first to be powered with two Rolls-Royce Nene engines, and later two Snecma Atar engines under direction of Heinrich Hertel.

The project was dropped in 1949.

Does anybody have any more information on this?
 

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Retrofit

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Hi Loren,

Indeed, in 1946, the company SNCASE engaged Prof. Heinrich Hertel, former technical director at Heinkel, then at Junkers-Dessau where he designed the EF130 flying wing project.
Under his direction, the SNCASE design-offices situated at Toulouse and Marignane studied several tailless aircraft and flying wings projects, with increasing sizes. The first one, the SE-1800, was formalized, on April 30th 1947, by a development contract signed with the French government. This experimental aircraft, single-seat and twin engine, was designed to study caracteristics of subsonic flying wings, for much bigger long-range civil transport flying wing project of 280 metric tons (617294,3lb).
A scale model was tested at ONERA wind-tunnel at Cannes in february 1948. Military versions was also studied before the end of the program in December 1948.

Specs: Span: 17m (55,77ft); Lenght: 12,1m (39,7ft); Wing Area: 73m2 (785,77sqft); Empty weight: 9111kg (20086,3lb); Loaded weight: 15000kg (33069,3lb); Estimated max speed: 1000km/h (621,4mph)
 

Michel Van

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PDF on SNCASE Projects
http://www.hydroretro.net/etudegh/sncase.pdf
 

Jemiba

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A better, or at least more detailed drawing (that not necessarily means more accurate !) can
be found in Jean Cunys "Les Avions De Combat Francais". I've once used it as basis for a redraw.
A detail shown by Cuny is, that the nose leg is offset slightly to the right side. The concept still
looks rather german to me, something I used as a clue for the landing gear.
Again, just a provisional drawing, without any warranty !
 

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Retrofit

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Hei! Jemiba

From SNCASE-Marignane design office, doc n° T/8515 dated Feb. the 5th, 1948.
 

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Jemiba

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Maybe that was the source for Cunys drawings ? Will have a
closer look and if more details are recognisable, I'll include them.
Thanks, Retrofit ! ;)
 

Retrofit

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Wow, thanks Justo!
Do you have more information on those SE-1801 and 1802.
They look like scaled-down models of a transport project mentionned in the Interavia issue 8-9, 1950: "Avions commerciaux à grand rayon d'action" by....H. Hertel.
 

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Michel Van

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in this Thread
http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,441.0.html

are those picture
index.php


index.php


are related to SNCASE SE-1800 ? ? ?
 

Retrofit

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Well, the studies conducted by SNCASE and ATAR were indeed quite similar, but IMHO I don't think they were connected.
The SE-1801/1802 projects seem to be the missing links between Junkers 1945 BWB project (without reference!) and SNCASE?-Hertel project (SNCASE project reference ?) presented in the 1950 interavia issue (i.e. after Hertel left SNCASE).

http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=4959.0
 

airman

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Retrofit said:
Well, the studies conducted by SNCASE and ATAR were indeed quite similar, but IMHO I don't think they were connected.
The SE-1801/1802 projects seem to be the missing links between Junkers 1945 BWB project (without reference!) and SNCASE?-Hertel project (SNCASE project reference ?) presented in the 1950 interavia issue (i.e. after Hertel left SNCASE).

http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=4959.0

or probably yes ? ::) ::)

Must be some connection ! :)
We don't forget that projects of luftwaffe, after wwii, have had a great contribute of development of odiern aviation !
 

Justo Miranda

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Retrofit said:
Wow, thanks Justo!
Do you have more information on those SE-1801 and 1802.
They look like scaled-down models of a transport project mentionned in the Interavia issue 8-9, 1950: "Avions commerciaux à grand rayon d'action" by....H. Hertel.

Please see "Luftwaffe Secret Projects -Strategic bombers 1935 , 1945" by Dieter Herwig and Heinz Rode
Ian Allan 2000.
PP.100 "A Junkers Long Range Project of 1945"
 

Retrofit

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airman said:
Must be some connection ! :)
We don't forget that projects of luftwaffe, after wwii, have had a great contribute of development of odiern aviation !


In that sense, airman, you are perfectly right (I was more thinking about direct relations between the ATAR's design office and the SNCASE's one).
When it was created in october 1945 at Rickenbach, near Lindau, ATAR (Atelier Technique Aeronautique de Rickenbach) had engaged, along with Dc. Ing. Hermann Oestrich (former BMW Berlin-Spandau technical director and father of the BMW 109-003 jet engine), around 180 engineers and technicans coming from BMW, Daimler-Benz, VDM, Hirth and...Junkers.

Thanks again Justo.
 

Jemiba

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Another SNCASE project came to my mind, especially as the flying wing transport
projects were mentioned : The SNCASE X-200, one of the many pre-projects to
the Caravelle.
(drawing from Le Fana 4.1997)
 

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SlickDriver

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Wow! Thanks for the great input. A truly interesting chain of studies.
 

Jemiba

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Perhaps the SE-2100, always described as "touring aircraft", was in fact just
built as a flying wing testbed ? ???
 

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hesham

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From Ailes 10/11/1956,

here is a drawing to SNCASE SE.1801 & SE.1802,and more info.
 

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