Fantastic hesham, thanks! I've updated the list, which I believe is now the most complete SNCASE ever published/posted.hesham said:Hi,
X-104 was long-range transatlantic flying boat (9 tons of cargo+ 70 passengers).
X-220 was Super Caravelle.
X-250 was a project for airliner and powered by three Rolls-Royce/Snecma M45 jet engines.
SE-1100 was SE-200C.
SE-1300 was flying boat (not sure).
SE-2200 was a navalised version of the SE.580.
SE-2301 was developed from SE-2300.
SE-3010 was a helicopter.
"Tonnage" doesn't look like an aircraft's name to me... I could be wrong, but then it also seems that this project may just have been an April's Fool joke from the Aerophile blog. We need more proof of this being real I think.hesham said:Tonnage; http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,9697.0/highlight,sud-aviation.html
Moyen cargo project (not sure).
Yes, as I said, only one source on the web (repeated in several places) but I believe it's a typo. The previous paragraph described the SE 3110 and in all logic the SE 3120 was developed from the latter. Again I could be wrong, but if the "SE 3010" had existed as a helicopter project leading to the Alouette I, I think the book (and of course all the other sources on SNCASE) would have devoted more than a passing mention to it...hesham said:For the SE-3010,only I found it in this site;
I'm agree with you, Stargazer, concerning the typo:Stargazer2006 said:Yes, as I said, only one source on the web (repeated in several places) but I believe it's a typo. The previous paragraph described the SE 3110 and in all logic the SE 3120 was developed from the latter. Again I could be wrong, but if the "SE 3010" had existed as a helicopter project leading to the Alouette I, I think the book (and of course all the other sources on SNCASE) would have devoted more than a passing mention to it...
I would like to point out a frequently seen error:Stargazer2006 said:Here is a list of all known SNCASE models and designs. I have listed them by numerical order, not chronologically. More detail and updates will be added in the future. Feel free to add to it or correct any mistake!
SE 4500 CASSEUR ground-to-ground missile project
From "The SE 1500 : Preliminary French Missile Tests" by Philippe Jung, IAA-94-IAA2.2.621Stargazer2006 said:SNCASE (abbreviated from Société nationale des constructions aéronautiques du Sud-Est) or Sud-Est was a French aircraft manufacturer. The company was formed on February 1, 1937 by the nationalization and merger of Lioré et Olivier, Potez, CAMS, Romano and SPCA (source: Wikipedia).
Here is a list of all known SNCASE models and designs. I have listed them by numerical order, not chronologically. More detail and updates will be added in the future. Feel free to add to it or correct any mistake!
SE 1500 guided retrievable ground-to-ground missile
SE 1524 variant of above
SE 1530 missile
In his paper Philippe Jung specify that neither the SE 1520 nor the SE 1530 were flown... but some were built.Stargazer2006 said:Thanks! I've updated the list accordingly. However the SE 1530 I had found a mention of doesn't appear in your list. ???
A picture of a SE 1530 mockupcardonet said:In his paper Philippe Jung specify that neither the SE 1520 nor the SE 1530 were flown... but some were built.Stargazer2006 said:Thanks! I've updated the list accordingly. However the SE 1530 I had found a mention of doesn't appear in your list. ???
5 SE 1520 were modified into SE 1502M and 5 into SE 1523.
7 SE 1530 were modified into SE 1522 and 2 into SE 1523.
|H-49||Amphitrite||Seaplane||Lioré-et-Olivier (LeO) type|
|SE-100||—||Fighter||Aircraft||29/03/39||Former LeO 50|
|SE-101||—||Ground attack||Aircraft||01/03/52||Former LeO 50|
|SE-118||Diplomate||Cargo/Transport||Aircraft||Passenger transport derivative of the Voltigeur|
|SE-200||Rochambeau||Cargo/Transport||Seaplane||Former LeO H-49 Amphitrite|
|SE.201||Aquilon||Fighter||Aircraft||Two-seater night pursuit version|
|SE.202||Aquilon||Fighter||Aircraft||01/10/52||Sea Venom derivative|
|SE.204||Aquilon||Fighter||Aircraft||Two-seater trainer version|
|SE-400||—||Reconnaissance||Seaplane||31/12/39||Derived from the LeO H-46|
|SE-520||—||Fighter||Aircraft||Project derived from Dewoitine D-520|
|SE-580||—||Fighter||Aircraft||Project derived from Dewoitine D-520, with dorsal air intake|
|SE-581||—||Fighter||Aircraft||Project derived from Dewoitine D-520, with dorsal air intake|
|SE-582||—||Fighter||Aircraft||Project derived from Dewoitine D-520, with dorsal air intake|
|SE-1010||—||Cargo/Transport||Aircraft||24/11/48||For the IGN (French National Geographic Institute)|
|SE-1030||—||Cargo/Transport||Aircraft||1947 stratospheric project|
|SE-1035||—||Cargo/Transport||Aircraft||1947 stratospheric project|
|SE-1040||—||Cargo/Transport||Aircraft||Project for turboprop tests|
|SE-1210||—||Seaplane||01/12/48||Flying model of SE-1200|
|SE-1400||—||Experimental||Aircraft||Flying model project of SE-2400|
|SE-1410||—||Experimental||Aircraft||Flying model project of SE-2400|
|SE-1800||—||Cargo/Transport||Aircraft||1947 flying model project for supersonic transport|
|SE-1801||—||Cargo/Transport||Aircraft||1947 flying model project for supersonic transport|
|SE-1802||—||Cargo/Transport||Aircraft||1947 flying model project for supersonic transport|
|SE-2020||Armagnac||Cargo/Transport||Aircraft||Project with larger diameter wheels|
|SE-2040||Armagnac||Cargo/Transport||Aircraft||Project with Allison T40 engines|
|SE-2060||Armagnac||Experimental||Aircraft||SE-2010 with 2 jet engines added to the four engines|
|SE-2200||—||Fighter||Aircraft||Projected naval derivative of the SE-580|
|SE-2310||—||Cargo/Transport||Aircraft||01/01/45||Tricycle derivative of the SE-2300|
|SE-2311||—||Cargo/Transport||Aircraft||Retractable gear derivative of the SE-2310|
|SE-2400||—||Fighter||Aircraft||Forerunner of the Grognard, project|
|SE-2417||Grognard||Fighter||Aircraft||Project de chasse de nuit|
|SE-2420||Grognard||Fighter||Aircraft||Project de chasse tout-temps|
|SE-2421||—||Fighter||Aircraft||Project de version tout-temps du Grognard|
|SE-2450||Grognard||Fighter||Aircraft||Last development project of the Grognard|
|SE-3000||—||Helicopter||24/10/48||Former Focke-Achgelis Fa 223|
|SE-3001||—||Helicopter||01/06/48||Flying model of the SE-3100|
|SE-3120||Alouette I||Cargo/Transport||Helicopter||Became SA-312|
|SE-314||—||Cargo/Transport||Helicopter||Alouette II modified for developing the Super Frelon|
|SE-315||—||Cargo/Transport||Helicopter||Alouette II modified for developing the Lama and Alouette III|
|SE-3160||Alouette III||Cargo/Transport||Helicopter||26/02/59||Became SA-316|
|SE-3164||Alouette III||Cargo/Transport||Helicopter||Alouette III with open cockpit|
|SE-3210||Super Frelon||Cargo/Transport||Helicopter||07/12/62||Became SA-321|
|SE-5002||Baroudeur||Fighter||Aircraft||Reduced scaled project derived from the SE-5000|
|SE-5003||Baroudeur||Fighter||Aircraft||01/11/55||ATAR 101 E.4 engine|
|SE-5008||Baroudeur||Fighter||Aircraft||ATAR 8 engine|
|SE-5012||Baroudeur||Fighter||Aircraft||Project with Bristol Orpheus engine|
|SE-5020||Baroudeur||Fighter||Aircraft||Project with Snecma M engine|
|SE-5030||Baroudeur M||Fighter||Aircraft||Project with Snecma M engine|
|SE-5040||Baroudeur||Fighter||Aircraft||Project with Bristol Orpheus engine|
|SE-5091||Baroudeur||Fighter||Aircraft||Project with Bristol Orpheus / Fiat engine|
|X.106||—||Fighter||Aircraft||Supersonic project for Switzerland|
|X.107||—||Fighter||Aircraft||Supersonic project for Switzerland|
|X.108||—||Reconnaissance||Aircraft||Maritime surveillance project|
|X.200||—||Aircraft||Transatlantic flying wing|
|X.201||—||Aircraft||Transatlantic flying wing|
|X.202||—||Aircraft||Transatlantic flying wing|
|X.203||—||Aircraft||Flying wing project|
|X.207||—||Aircraft||Forerunner of the Durandal|
|X.210||—||Aircraft||Project précurseur de la Caravelle|
|X-218||—||Experimental||Aircraft||Project dérivé du Durandal|
|X-222||Durandal||Fighter||Aircraft||Last development of the Durandal, cancelleds|
|X-223||—||Fighter||Aircraft||Delta wing project|
|X-224||—||Fighter||Aircraft||Delta wing project|
hesham, you make it sound like I'm ignorant or I can't read. I didn't ask for an explanation of the SNCASE system (this is fairly well known and already discussed in this topic!). I questioned the association of "X.116" with the name Fonceur. To me the X.116/SE.116 was the Voltigeur, not the Fonceur. Only the X.216 was the Fonceur.hesham said:Stargazer,
the SNCASE company used two main series,the SE and X,the X was generally for experimental
aircraft and projects,when ant aircraft from X series success,they re-named into SE series,such
as X-212 became SE-212,and X-116 became SE-116.
Stargazer2006 said:Are you sure that X.116 was not the first designation of the SE 116 Voltigeur?
This is an incomplete item. I believe you are getting confused because French is not your native language. I need to see the complete article to be able to clarify the matter.hesham said:From Le Avions de Combat Francais II
During the winter of 1955-1956, the Sud-Est design bureau at Marignane worked under the supervision of Jean Poitou on a twin-engine ground attack aircraft designated X-116 and powered by two Turboméca "Bastan" turboprops. As the team was aware of the difficulty in obtaining these engines in time, the engineers planned a variant with radial Wright "Cyclone" engines that was designated SE X-116 B.
In this configuration the aircraft featured a bubble-type canopy with a step at the rear to enable shooting downwards with a mobile machine gun.
In March 1956 this pre-project was one of two retained (the other being the SIPA 1100): on March 5 Sud-Est received a first contract for development models, wind-tunnel models and a performance record. On June 11 the manufacturer received a letter of order for 2 turboprop-powered prototypes.
In early 1957 the situation was regulated through a market in good and due form (n° 3022/57) for two differently-powered prototypes: the first with Wright engines and the second with "Bastan" engines. The contractual dates for first flights were set respectively in April and October 1958.
These aircraft were called "Fonceur".
Later on the design evolved, the fuselage became streamlined and integrated the canopy better. It is in that form that the SE 116 Nos. 01 and 02 were built, being rechristened "Voltigeur" for reasons unknown to us.
But in answer to modifications brought into the program in 1958 (transport for 4 seated passengers or 2 wounded on stretchers and one nurse) Sud-Est had to redesign the fuselage by "inflating" it, which led to the SE 117, one of which was also built as the n° 03 aircraft.
Stargazer2006 said:I couldn't accurately translate "tir en retraite" (literally "shooting in retreat", which means basically shooting rearwards after taking over the target).
Stargazer2006 said:Interesting considering the "SE-316" was just the Artouste-powered Alouette III. Project numbers apparently covered some very different configurations!