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SNCAO ("CAO") Projects

hesham

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Hi,

The SNCAO-720 was a new project for low wing four
engined commercial transport aircraft,accommodated for
22-passenger and had estimated speed 440 km/h.
 

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hesham

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Hi,

The last project to SNCAO before merged with SNCASO ,the SNCAO
CAO-900 it was high parasol wing amphibian look like the Sikorsky
S-43,powered by two 655 hp Gnome-Rhone engines,accommodated
for 18-passenger estimated cruising speed was 280 km/h.

The source was Air Pictorial 1970.
 

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Apophenia

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Pepe Rezende said:
As a CFS2 developer, I need a good three view image of CAO.700 and Bloch MB.162 bombers. Can anyone help me?

Cheers

Pepe

Apologies for the scan quality.

3-view by Dennis Punnet

From William Green's Bombers and Reconnaissance Aircraft Vol 7, Doubleday 1967
 

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Pepe Rezende

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Apophenia said:
Apologies for the scan quality.

Both 3-views are by Dennis Punnet

From William Green's Bombers and Reconnaissance Aircraft Vol 7, Doubleday 1967

Thank you!
 

hesham

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Hi,

in French competition of 1938 for single seat floatplane fighter,the tenders
were; Late-670,Potez-CAMS 170,Dewoitine HD.780 and CAO-500,it had
two floats and powered by single engine,does anyone know more info
about it ?.
 

toura

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hi hesham
in 1939 for the "A 75 navy program" only the D 780
has been construct (one exemplaire) but was not flying
because the German invasion of course but also because
the French Navy change the program :
A landing gear and arrester hook was asked and the
D 790 was proposed (no suite)
Only a model of the Cams 170 was realised but the
archive of Potez was all destruct at the end of the war
All this in 2 old "Le fana de l'aviation"
Bye
 

toura

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HI hesham.
Here, in "early aircraft projects" on page 27
look " projected aircraft for marine nationale carriers
Joffre and Painleve" you could see three views drawings
of the D 790 and Late 675 successor of D 780 and LATE 670
Bye
 

hesham

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Thank you my dear Toura,

and for dear Just Miranda,the CAMS-170 had three floats and not two,that
may be the drawing for it which you displayed it before,I think it was for
CAO-500,because it had two floats.
 

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Stargazer2006

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For the CAO-600, see: http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,3632.0
 

hesham

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Nick Sumner

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Thanks for this Hesham! What leads you to the conclusion that the CAO 810 might be turboprop powered? It looks more like an upright V12 with the radiator above the supercharger.
 

Jemiba

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As the exhaust stubs are visible, it obviously was piston engine powered.
Interesting find !
 

Stargazer2006

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Jemiba said:
As the exhaust stubs are visible, it obviously was oiston engine powered.

Not to mention the fact that turboprops did not exist in war years, did they?
 

hesham

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Ok piston engine,

and that aircraft was submitted to 1939 competition for dive bomber,
which the main tenders were; Loire-Nieuport LN-40,Dewoitine D-680,
SNACAO CAO-810 and Gourdou G-40.
 

Maveric

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Do you know more about the Gourdou G-40? (pic or drawing) :eek:
 

hesham

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Maveric said:
Do you know more about the Gourdou G-40? (pic or drawing) :eek:


Sorry my dear Maveric,


just a small info about it,no drawing.
 

hesham

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Hi,


here is a small info about SNCAO CAO.400.
 

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Michel Van

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there a model of the SNCAO ACA-5 "Kolko" fighter at Unicraft Models


is this a real Aircraft proposal or a myth ?

info at Unicraft models about SNCAO ACA-5
The Kolko ACA-5 was mentioned and illustrated in AVIATION MAGAZINE No.727, 1978.
On the 9th June 1939 the technical director of SNCAO , former Loire-Nieuport, M.Kerguistel received a letter from engineer A.Kolko. Recommended by M.Caquot, president of the SNCA firm A.Kolko proposed his plans for a complete new aircraft concept.(patent Kolko Nr.825.657) Following this patent a tourist aircraft, a bomber to B.5 and a fighter was suggested all with a very compact look.
The main principle was to keep the concept compact by placing all elements of the construction as close to the center of gravitity as posibe , wile still retaining a great movability. Interested by this concept , M.Caquot ordered on the 13th of June a windtunnel model to be tested in the windtunnel of SNCAO.
Already on the 20th of June M.Kerguistel was ready with his first report about the results of the initial windtunel tests. Despite the longitudal stability was reasonable the stability on the ground should be far less. Several modifications to the fins and rudders could only partially solve the problem. Most of the calculated performances were found correct but the air intakes for the radiator and the cooling of the engine was very doubthfull.
In general it was concluded that the design had certain technical advantages, but has a lot of problems too.. By letter of the 22th June 1937 from M.Caquot all work at SNCAO was stopped. Maybe longer studies and tests could have resulted in a war winning fighter...

Dimensions and performences.
span:6.38m lenght:3.60m height:2.33m wingsurface:7m?
empy weight 875Kg total weight 1320 kg. fuel 320L.
armament : two wing machine guns two fusealge MG and one cannon.
Engine : Hispano Suisa 12X of 660HP 3 bladed airscrew of 2m.diam.
max speed : 645 Km/h cruising " : 350 " " landing " : 145 " "
climb speed : 31m/sec
range at 4000m. of 1600Km.
 

Jemiba

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I was asked, if this aircraft wasn't a bit to small to accommodate a pilote.
Well, not really comfortable, but probably possible even for pilots of about
6 feet/ 1,580m height.
A good example for people moaning about seat width and spacing in the tourist class ! ;)
 

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BS_w

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Jemiba said:
As the exhaust stubs are visible, it obviously was piston engine powered.
Interesting find !

The CAO 810 was a dive bomber project powered by Hispano Suiza 12Y type 89 supercharged(1200cv at 6000m), remplaced by 12Z turbo supercharged(1300cv at 8000m).
- span: 14,00m
- dihedral : 5°
- lenght : 11,32m
- height : 4,22m
- Wheel : Standard N° 12 (800x280)
- tread c/l to c/l wheels: 5,50m
- Propeller : 4 blades, dia 3,30m
- Armamnt: 2x7,5mm on each wing + 500rounds each - rear gunner, 2x7,5mm and 1600rounds
Bombs: 1x200kg or 2x 100kg or 1x 500kg
 

hesham

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Thank you BS_w very much,


and for CAO.810,I can't determine which competition it was entered,the only contest
in the same period for a dive bomber was in 1938,and its contenders were,Gourdou
G-40,Loire-Nieuport LN-40 and Dewoitine D-680.
 

BS_w

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Wrote in may 1940 in the instruction presentation and aerodynamic calculations:

the project defined by the instructions presented in December 1939 has been amended to conform to the aircraft program BP2 currently being established

Translate by Google
 

hesham

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Hi,

From my dear Tophe,the last issue for TU magazine,the SNCAO CAO.500 was
a version of CAO.200 with main center float and two small floats at the wing,
can anyone make an imagine drawing for it ?.
 
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Jemiba

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hesham

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Very nice drawing my dear Jens,


and may be it resemble the real one,or very very close to it.
 

Jemiba

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It were the best drawings I could find for this purpose, hope, you don't mind.
I've include the links directly on the sketch now, so it should be clear for everyone,
even if he takes the file from somewhere else.
 

Madoc

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Regarding the Kolko ACA-5, I could see the height and length as making it possible to squeeze a pilot into it - but not the width.

I have that Unicraft kit and although I complement Igor on his adherence to the scale views, the width is clearly impossible for a human being to fit into - let alone an adult pilot in full flight suit and regalia.

Adding at least half a Meter to its width would bring it into the realm of the possible. Doing such a fix on the kit would be extraordinarily difficult as it would mean reshaping the after contours of the fuselage and prop spinner.
 

c460

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Hi,
Here is a drawing of the CAO.500, from the book Nieuport 1909-1950.
Adrien
 

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hesham

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Thank you my dear Adrien,


and its competitor the CAMS-170 is in the same class.
 

hesham

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c460 said:
Hi,
Here is a drawing of the CAO.500, from the book Nieuport 1909-1950.
Adrien


Hi,


we know the SNCAO-1000 was developed from SNCAO-500,can we imagine its shape ?.
 

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blackkite

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Hi! CAO 200 mockup and prototype without small fin which located at the horizontal tail stabilizer.

http://forum.aviation-ancienne.fr/t6246p60-quizz-avions

http://www.airwar.ru/enc/fww2/cao200.html
 

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hesham

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Hi,

the CAO.700M was developed from CAO.700 as maritime recce
bomber version,Project,also the CAO.710 was an unfinished bomber
Project as CAO.700.but powered by a more powerful engines,1320 hp.

L+K 5/1980
 

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hesham

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From TU 216,

here is all Info about B-5 tourist & ACA-5 fighter Projects,from SNCA;


A.Kolko, IMN engineer, deposits the patent 825,657, for a new type
plane, particularly picked up. This patent offers a tourism plane called
B-5 and a hunting device referred to as ACA-5. The two planes are
present in a compact form and small footprint in all three dimensions.
This quality is obtained by a "judicious" arrangement of the components
of the aircraft, the layout particular of the landing gear and the location
of the propeller. Mr. Kolko sums up himself his project: "Plane very
picked up, almost everything is in the center of gravity and largely
balanced directly, low total surface area, good fleece, center of gravity
close to the ground and great maneuverability. "

On June 9, 1939, Mr. Kerguistel, then technical director of the SNCAO receives a letter from the inventor, who recommends himself to M.
Caquot, president of SNCA, and offers him his device. Interested in
the Project, Mr. Caquot asked June 13 at the SNCAO to test a model
in a wind tunnel.

Tests in the Nieuport wind tunnel will find good longitudinal stability,
but road stability deplorable despite several modifications of
daggerboards. Furthermore, the calculations performances are
considered fanciful.

Following these tests, a letter from M. Caquot, dated June 22, 1939,
meant has SNCAO the abandonment of the project.


Features and performance
from the ACA-5 device:

Motor: 1 Hispano-Suiza 12X of 660 hp driving a three-blade 2 m diameter propeller

Wingspan: 6.38 m Long. : 3.60 m
High. : 2.33m Surf. load-bearing: 7 m °
Empty weight: 875 kg Total weight:
1320 kg Petrol: 320 liters
Armament: 1 cannon and 2 machine guns
fuselage 2 wing machine guns
Maximum speed: 645 km / h (!!!)
Cruising speed: 350 km / h

Landing speed: 145 km / h
Climbing speed: 31 m / s
Practical ceiling: 15,400 m (!!!)
Cruisable distance at
4000 m: 1600 km (!!!)
 

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hesham

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So weird,

in previous post,I mentioned an Info about SNCA firm,and maybe it was called Société Nationale de Constructions Aéronautiques ,and its designation ACA-5 or B-5 was an indicator to if this company developed a series of airplanes
from number 1 to 4,specially its president M. Caquot,designed an unknown C.1 Fighter Project as dear Maveric
claimed here;

 

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