SNCAC (Aérocentre) NC.270/271

[hesham]

Hi,

in Flightglobal,they said that the Nord N.2500 was research aircraft,
I am confuse and I don't know this aircraft,any explaination please.

http://www.flightglobal.com/PDFArchive/View/1949/1949%20-%200868.html

 

[Deltafan]

This Nord 2500 seems to be an earlier project of the Nord 270 2 x Nene bomber (never finished), or maybe a pre-model for the 271 test-planes (models of the Nord 270. Only one flied, without engine)

 

[Antonio]

Hesham,

that Nord 2500 it is also a mistery for me. I haven't found it at Jean Cuny's "Les Avions de Combat Françaises".
Besides, I'd like to point out a typo error. The aircraft above Nord 2500 it is not a Nord 1601, it is Nord 2200 Naval Fighter which was the rival design to SNCA NC 1080 and Arsenal VG 90 for "Chasseur d'interception embarqué à réaction" (29th-March-1946) requirement.

http://www.aviastar.org/air/france/nord_2200.php

Nord 1601 was a research aircraft to study the swept wing configuration.

http://www.aviastar.org/air/france/nord_1601.php

The link you posted is also interesting because that NC 1080 model shows an early configuration which is slightly different from the final product

http://www.aviastar.org/air/france/sncac_nc-1080.php

Regards,

Antonio

 

[hesham]

thank you my dears Deltafan and pometablava,

and dear Deltafan,do you have a drawing to Nord N.270 ?.

 

[Justo Miranda]

thank you my dears Deltafan and pometablava,

and dear Deltafan,do you have a drawing to Nord N.270 ?.

From "Les avions de combat français 1944-1960" by Jean CUNY , DOCAVIA Nº 30

 

[Jemiba]

The drawing really looks very similar to NC.270, but this design wasn't from
Nord, but from SNCAC (Aerocentre). And the designation N.2500 for a Nord
design was used for the prototpe of the Noratlas, although this isn't a hard
evidence, as sometimes there were doublets among the french designations
(and among the Nord designations,too ).
But I'm pretty sure, that it's just a typo, especially as the aircraft on the right
seems to be misinditified, too, as it quite probably isn't the all-weather/night fighter
NC.1072, but the forerunner, the torpedo/attack bomber NC.1070 .

 

[Deltafan]

thank you my dears Deltafan and pometablava,
and dear Deltafan,do you have a drawing to Nord N.270 ?.

Justo has the same source as me

 

[hesham]

Hi,

I suggest that it was NC.250,and the Nord N.2500 was misprint.

 

[hesham]

Hi,


here is a model for SNCAC NC.270.

 

[toura]

Hi all

From an old "le Fana de l'aviation"

 

[hesham]

Great articles and drawings my dear Toura.

 

[Jemiba]

Sorry, completely overlooked the error in the title. Work on the NC.270 and the NC.271 aerodynamical testbed started
in 1946 still under the aegis of the "Société Nationale de Constructions Aéronautiques du Centre" (Aérocentre), recognisable
by the designation "NC". So I changed the title and moved the post about the Nord N.2200 here: http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,16058.msg199363.html#msg199363

drawings modified and to be found here http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,3474.msg201413.html#msg201413

 

[Stargazer]

What a beautiful set of plans for a beautiful postwar design! You've outdone yourself once again, Jens! Thanks a lot for sharing these.

 

[hesham]

Fantastic drawings my dear Jens.

 

[Jemiba]

... and the -02 with a rocket engine:

BTW, is there an evidence, that the -02 was ever actually flown with this rocket ?

 

[toura]

Guten tag Jens

Perhaps
From an article " le fana de l aviation"
december 1998 ???????

 

[Jemiba]

Thank you Paul !
I'll try a short summary:

The -02 was fitted with a Walter 109-509, taken from a captured Me 163. Reason for this wasn't to achieve high speed,
but to increase altitude, as flight testing was to be done while gliding. The -02 prototype, painted red, was completed shortly before
SNCAC was closed, its layout actually being that of the NC.270 at that time. Pierre Gaillard had seen the finished prototype, but cracks
in a par of the wing were found, delaying flight tests until repair. It was actually repaired and brought to Orleans Bricy during May 1949,
soon joined by the -01 and was first flown in September 1949, being taken to a height of 10,000 m by a He 274.
<The next part is incomplete>
Both aircraft actually seem to have flown, but due to the delay, integrating the results into the design of the NC.270 wasn't possible
anymore at this time. High-speed tests could be made cheaper with jet powered aircraft, without the need for the expensive method
to carry the test aircraft piggy back on Languedoc or He 274. Additionally, the NC.270 was already in a more advanced state aerodynami-
cally, than the NC.271-01 ! SNCASO was working with their own manned models SOM-1 and -2,so had no need for the NC.271.
In the result, STAe recommended to stop work and store them, or hand over to ONERA for wind tunnel testing only.


If I got it wrong, please tell me. To fit that rocket engine was a courageous decision, judging the experiences suffered by the Germans !

 

[toura]

Hi Jens

GOOD ! Just a little correction.

If the nc 271 02 flow, i never see photo of
this plane with the HE 274 ? Bye

 

[Jemiba]

Thanks !

Just one more question: Can somebody decypher the writing on the nose (photo from http://xplanes.free.fr/so4000/so4000-3.htm) ?
Looks like "La Brau...", or "La Prau ...", maybe you know, where to find a clearer photo.

 

[Archibald]

From memory: it reads as Louis Bertrand. Bertrand was a SNCAC pilot that tragically died when the enormous NC.211 Cormorant tranport crashed during its maiden flight, July 20, 1948.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SNCAC_NC_211

 

[Jemiba]

Many thanks !
And the colour overall probably was red, as for the second prototype. Seem to have
been a SNCAC habit, the NC.2001 Abeille was painted red, too.

 

[toura]

Hi Jens
Here the name

 

[Jemiba]

Paul, you came to my rescue ! Will show the result during the weekend, I think. Many thanks indeed !
I already had confirmed the name, but it was just a blurry photo, too. Now I know: The nearest font
to this writing is "Fedra serif" ...

 

[Jemiba]

Comparing the photos posted by toura with my 3-views, some of you probably already noticed my
fault: The landing gear is shown incorrectly, it obviously was retracting forward into the mock-up
engine fairings and not into the wings. Will post corrected drawings soon, sorrs for any inconvenience !
Reason for this error simply was, that good photos , especially those with the gear extended, seem to
be rare.
But here's a small compensation :

 

[Jemiba]

As said before, I've corrected the drawings of the N° 01 and 02, mainly with regards to the landing
gear. I'm still not quite sure about the wheel well doors though, as they don't apear on the photo posted
by Paul.So maybe they were rotating around the axis of the mock-up engine fairings, instead of being
just hinged ? Of course there could have been none at all, but the retracted landing gear isn't recognisable
on any of the photos, I've seen. So, still yet, just provisional drawings and still several questions to be answered.
BTW, I've given the drawing a width of 190 mm and set line width to 0.15 pt, around 0.05 mm. Seemed sufficient
to me, regarding the level of detail, but if there are problems, please just tell me

 

[hesham]

Hi,

I think they meant here; Nord N.250.

 

[hesham]

Hi,

has anyone a more Info about NC.272 supersonic interceptor and twin jets NC.275 Projects ?.

 

[hesham]

has anyone a more Info about NC.272 supersonic interceptor and twin jets NC.275 Projects ?.

As I remember,the NC.275 was attack twin turbojets aircraft Project ?.

 

[hesham]

has anyone a more Info about NC.272 supersonic interceptor and twin jets NC.275 Projects ?.

Also unfortunately this two Projects were not mentioned in both books of Mr. Carbonel; French Secret Projects
Vol. 1 & Vol. 2 ?.

 

[hesham]

has anyone a more Info about NC.272 supersonic interceptor and twin jets NC.275 Projects ?.

The source was Le Fana,but I can't remember the number of issue.

 

[PhR]

Comparing the photos posted by toura with my 3-views, some of you probably already noticed my
fault: The landing gear is shown incorrectly, it obviously was retracting forward into the mock-up
engine fairings and not into the wings. Will post corrected drawings soon, sorrs for any inconvenience !
Reason for this error simply was, that good photos , especially those with the gear extended, seem to
be rare.
But here's a small compensation :

Hi Jemiba,
I can provide information: NC-271-01 was painted gloss black. Only the c/n 02 was painted in red, but with a different tail, as shown here:

 

[hesham]

Hi,

in Flightglobal,they said that the Nord N.2500 was research aircraft,
I am confuse and I don't know this aircraft,any explaination please.

http://www.flightglobal.com/PDFArchive/View/1949/1949 - 0868.html

I think that,it was a misprint and may they meant Nord N.2400 ?.