Seversky "Super Clipper"

Orionblamblam

ACCESS: Above Top Secret
Top Contributor
Senior Member
Joined
Apr 5, 2006
Messages
8,641
Reaction score
2,870
Website
www.aerospaceprojectsreview.com
A 1938 design to meet an impossiblke Pan Am specification for a 100-passenger trans-Atlantic flying cruise ship, with passengers in luxury (by modern standards) cabins spread throughout the fuselage, tailbooms and wing. Included a sizable dining hall.

More info in issue V1N1 of the new APR at: http://www.up-ship.com/eAPR/index.htm
 

Attachments

  • superclipper.jpg
    superclipper.jpg
    90.8 KB · Views: 1,958

Skybolt

ACCESS: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Jun 14, 2006
Messages
2,299
Reaction score
206
Ok, Scott, I'll have to order the electronic version of APR V1N1... ;D
 

CAIR67

ACCESS: Restricted
Joined
Nov 30, 2009
Messages
45
Reaction score
9
This Seversky factory model has surfaced, and is now part of my collection.
95290E12-06DA-4C04-98CB-FA8202801FAD_zpsnplecfxd.jpg
[/URL]
 

memaerobilia

ACCESS: Confidential
Senior Member
Joined
Oct 29, 2009
Messages
137
Reaction score
8
Website
www.memaerobilia.com
I am sure that many of us, here, would love to hear the story of your amazing find. Good for You! It looks to be of a large size?
It is a bit curious to note the difference between another (earlier/later?) factory model of this plane, that I found an original photograph of, tucked into some of Seversky's papers from Republic, during WWII.
Your center cabin is much more blended into the center wing, and the center wing is canted upward, betwen the pods, also. That is also the way it is in the patent dwgs...
 

Attachments

  • repx1i.jpg
    repx1i.jpg
    30.3 KB · Views: 928
  • ds1i.jpg
    ds1i.jpg
    27.8 KB · Views: 898

CAIR67

ACCESS: Restricted
Joined
Nov 30, 2009
Messages
45
Reaction score
9
The model has a 37" wingspan, and the floats retract and extend. A very interesting feature to say the least. Attached is the cover art from 1938 Model Airplane News. Also a phot of Seversky in standing next to this model, also from Model a Airplane News 1938. I am trying to find a better copy of this photo. It is interesting that the design changed between 1937 and 1938.

E9332EB2-4337-4AB3-8256-21946B9C933B_zpspvqjknks.jpg
[/URL]

A7C0E65B-DE3E-418A-9A28-9988CA95CDD7_zpsbtadxovd.jpg
[/URL]
 

sferrin

ACCESS: USAP
Senior Member
Joined
Jun 3, 2011
Messages
14,474
Reaction score
3,359
In elementary school we had "Model Airplane News" in our school library. I lived for each new issue.
 

XP67_Moonbat

ACCESS: Top Secret
Joined
Jan 16, 2008
Messages
2,171
Reaction score
114
I remember my elementary library had all kinds of good books on space and planes. Good reading like those red Colby Books. I miss those!

Not like libraries now. My neighborhood library stopped carrying Air&Space, and Popular Science. No doubt PM's next on the chopping block. As for their stock dumbass manga comics? Check! They have have a ful shelf for that.

Recently, they discarded a good book on Apollo. I gave it a good home now. Libraries these days!
 

Tomac

ACCESS: Restricted
Joined
Jan 31, 2009
Messages
45
Reaction score
6
CAIR67 said:
The model has a 37" wingspan, and the floats retract and extend. A very interesting feature to say the least. Attached is the cover art from 1938 Model Airplane News. Also a phot of Seversky in standing next to this model, also from Model a Airplane News 1938. I am trying to find a better copy of this photo. It is interesting that the design changed between 1937 and 1938.

E9332EB2-4337-4AB3-8256-21946B9C933B_zpspvqjknks.jpg
[/URL]

A7C0E65B-DE3E-418A-9A28-9988CA95CDD7_zpsbtadxovd.jpg
[/URL]
I just finished scanning this magazine (I copy drawings and photos) and attach herewith a copy of the article. I just hope that they come through.


Regards,
John Braungart
 

Attachments

  • (1938-08) MODEL AIRPLANE NEWS 001_crop.jpg
    (1938-08) MODEL AIRPLANE NEWS 001_crop.jpg
    954 KB · Views: 124
  • (1938-08) MODEL AIRPLANE NEWS 004_crop.jpg
    (1938-08) MODEL AIRPLANE NEWS 004_crop.jpg
    824.5 KB · Views: 161
  • (1938-08) MODEL AIRPLANE NEWS 005_crop.jpg
    (1938-08) MODEL AIRPLANE NEWS 005_crop.jpg
    528.8 KB · Views: 149

hesham

ACCESS: USAP
Senior Member
Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
28,366
Reaction score
6,020
Hi,

http://www.avia-it.com/act/biblioteca/periodici/PDF%20Riviste/Ala%20d'Italia/L'ALA%20D'ITALIA%201938%2005.pdf
 

Attachments

  • 1.png
    1.png
    983.3 KB · Views: 151

sienar

ACCESS: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Mar 8, 2009
Messages
710
Reaction score
394
Avimimus said:
So ten engines?

Three pairs of coupled and two singles, so eight on the face of it but 16 if you consider the 3420 as two 'welded together' engines.

It'd be interesting to know what sort of arrangement for the reduction gear was imagined. The 3420 in most variants had two output shafts, one from each bank of V-12s. This may seem like a goofy solution but it seemed to avoid the problems the DB-610 had.

Mixing 4 drive shafts to one massive prop seems like a challenge though. Although it popped up in a few other notional designs.
 

Attachments

  • dmsfhndss.png
    dmsfhndss.png
    318.9 KB · Views: 208

Schneiderman

ACCESS: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Oct 19, 2012
Messages
1,592
Reaction score
909
The drawings also show that the rear engine of each pair would need to drive a shaft around ten feet long. That could also prove problematic
 

robunos

You're Mad, You Are.....
Senior Member
Joined
May 1, 2007
Messages
2,040
Reaction score
564
sienar said:
Avimimus said:
So ten engines?

Three pairs of coupled and two singles, so eight on the face of it but 16 if you consider the 3420 as two 'welded together' engines.

It'd be interesting to know what sort of arrangement for the reduction gear was imagined. The 3420 in most variants had two output shafts, one from each bank of V-12s. This may seem like a goofy solution but it seemed to avoid the problems the DB-610 had.

Mixing 4 drive shafts to one massive prop seems like a challenge though. Although it popped up in a few other notional designs.

What is this project? The tail fin and rear fuselage gun position say Martin, as does the shoulder wing. Is there any further information on this...?

EDIT. It was late when I wrote the above. I meant to ask, was this a genuine project to a specific requirement, or just a study/illustration of buried powerplants and extension shaft driven propellors?
In addition to the Martin resemblance, the whole thing reminds of the Douglas 'Mixmaster'...

cheers,
Robin.
 

sienar

ACCESS: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Mar 8, 2009
Messages
710
Reaction score
394
robunos said:
sienar said:
Avimimus said:
So ten engines?

Three pairs of coupled and two singles, so eight on the face of it but 16 if you consider the 3420 as two 'welded together' engines.

It'd be interesting to know what sort of arrangement for the reduction gear was imagined. The 3420 in most variants had two output shafts, one from each bank of V-12s. This may seem like a goofy solution but it seemed to avoid the problems the DB-610 had.

Mixing 4 drive shafts to one massive prop seems like a challenge though. Although it popped up in a few other notional designs.

What is this project? The tail fin and rear fuselage gun position say Martin, as does the shoulder wing. Is there any further information on this...?

EDIT. It was late when I wrote the above. I meant to ask, was this a genuine project to a specific requirement, or just a study/illustration of buried powerplants and extension shaft driven propellors?
In addition to the Martin resemblance, the whole thing reminds of the Douglas 'Mixmaster'...

cheers,
Robin.

I believe its a notional design by Allison for illustrative purposes, but there is no information on it in the original source besides calling it a concept. http://www.enginehistory.org/Convention/2009/Presentations/AHx4_WWII.pdf
 

robunos

You're Mad, You Are.....
Senior Member
Joined
May 1, 2007
Messages
2,040
Reaction score
564
Thanks for the information, and the PDF... :)

cheers,
Robin.
 

hesham

ACCESS: USAP
Senior Member
Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
28,366
Reaction score
6,020
Hi,

http://www.avia-it.com/act/biblioteca/periodici/PDF%20Riviste/Ala%20d'Italia/L'ALA%20D'ITALIA%201940%2007.pdf
 

Attachments

  • 1.png
    1.png
    1,019.6 KB · Views: 310

Schneiderman

ACCESS: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Oct 19, 2012
Messages
1,592
Reaction score
909
That's a repeat of the image used in the very first post of this topic
 

gabrielorosco

I really should change my personal text
Joined
Dec 10, 2016
Messages
140
Reaction score
110
memaerobilia said:
I am sure that many of us, here, would love to hear the story of your amazing find. Good for You! It looks to be of a large size?
It is a bit curious to note the difference between another (earlier/later?) factory model of this plane, that I found an original photograph of, tucked into some of Seversky's papers from Republic, during WWII.
Your center cabin is much more blended into the center wing, and the center wing is canted upward, betwen the pods, also. That is also the way it is in the patent dwgs...

So, wich is the most recent design? The one in the patents or Im the factory model our friend found?☺
 

blackkite

Don't laugh, don't cry, don't even curse, but.....
Joined
May 31, 2007
Messages
8,075
Reaction score
4,164
Hi!

1PzkcwW.png
P7AYhd7.png
RkrVkDC.png
tBq12do.png QeRfflz.jpg
tNQ1Tqp.png
D65Dr6b.jpg
 
Last edited:

blackkite

Don't laugh, don't cry, don't even curse, but.....
Joined
May 31, 2007
Messages
8,075
Reaction score
4,164
Crew: 16
Staff: 8
Passengers: 120
Wing span: 76 metres
Cruise speed: 400 km/h
Top speed: 480 km/h
Engines: 8xAllison 2,000 hp
Payload: 19,500 kilograms
Range: 8,000 kilometres
 

blackkite

Don't laugh, don't cry, don't even curse, but.....
Joined
May 31, 2007
Messages
8,075
Reaction score
4,164
“Seversky Transoceanic Airliner” 1938, Seversky Aircraft Corp.
“The Seversky Super-Clipper,” Model Airplane News, 08-1938
“We Must Ship by Air,” Flight, 09-1942
“A Leviathan on Floats,” Flight, 03-1938
“Bigger and Bigger,” Flight, 06-1939
“Lindbergh’s ‘Dream Plane’,” Air International, 07-1986
 

blackkite

Don't laugh, don't cry, don't even curse, but.....
Joined
May 31, 2007
Messages
8,075
Reaction score
4,164
On March 14, 1938, the design was presented at PanAm. The design of the aircraft developed by the famous Alexander Cartveli (because the aircraft inside the company Seversky was called "Kartveli Dream Boat") can be safely called the pinnacle of the development of civilian airliners before the Second World War. The machine was the last word, both in style and technology for the 30s and early 40s.
Seversky's Super Clipper was immediately developed as a flying boat, as the development of technology has not yet allowed to make the usual chassis reliable at such a gigantic size of aircraft. It was clear that the conventional design of the aircraft was not quite suitable for this project. PanAm's requirements for accommodation and passenger numbers would force the fuselage to be too large. The usual placement of engines was not suitable for this project, because in many hours of flight they had to be serviced, which means that they had to be accessed. Thus, cartveley's team opted for an unusual configuration that most resembled the future Lockheed P-38 Lightning. On a large wing were placed two gondolas moving into tail beams, and between them was another small drop-shaped gondola, which housed the cockpit. The engines were placed in the bow and on the sides of large gondolas, in the stern part of a small gondola. But the most unusual solution was the floats removed in flight. This decision was due to the desire to have good aerodynamics in flight and the fact that the floats themselves could have done more. They also housed compartments for luggage.
The wingspan was 76 meters, and its thickness reached 3 meters. This allowed a large part of the wing to be used to accommodate crew and passengers, so the aircraft was often referred to as the "flying wing". Also, advanced wing mechanization was used, a system was installed to combat icing. The aircraft housed eight Allison liquid cooling engines, with a capacity of 2,000 horsepower each. Propellers in the nose of large gondolas and in the stern of a small were brought into motion by two engines. The size of the aircraft and the use of large floats increased the stability of the machine in case of excitement.
The two-deck cockpit was housed in a small gondola and was so large that it was time to call it a bridge. The crew of the upper deck of the bridge consisted of two pilots, a radio driver, a navigator and a flight engineer. Interestingly, the radio host's workplace was so large that his chair was installed on the tracks for free movement to the sides. Also on the upper deck there was a toilet and a cabin with two beds. At the lower level of the cockpit were engineers who monitor the operation of the various systems of the aircraft.
The accommodation conditions were truly luxurious and were approaching the standards of ocean liners. The plane had 54 regular double cabins and 6 VIP cabins with a double bed. The cabins were located in the wing between the gondolas and the gondolas themselves, all the cabins were connected by corridors with portholes in the ceiling. The plane was attended by attendants, cleaning cabins every day and changing clothes. Each compartment was equipped with a room with a washstand and a toilet. In the usual cabin beds were arranged in a row vertically, the lower one was laid out in two chairs and a table, the upper one was removed. The VIP cabin had two folding chairs and a table. Each cabin had a porthole, especially a chic view would be opened from the cabins in the wing, where the windows overlooked the front edge. In each compartment was carried a phone, from which for a fee you could make calls. The cabins of the crew and attendants were four-seater and were almost in the tail.
There were also public spaces in the wing. Two canteens for 25 people each, which in the evening turned into restaurants, one with a marine, and the second with a regular kitchen. The dining rooms had viewing galleries. Served dining two galleys at the back of a small gondola. Behind the cockpit was a 24-hour bar with access to the observation gallery, which is right under the cockpit. Possible was ordering food directly into the cabins.
Other versions of the aircraft were also being developed. This was investigated to improve aerodynamics to reduce the small central gondola by increasing the width of the wing and lengthening it. An option for the U.S. Army and Navy, called Super-Dreadnought, was also developed. Instead of passengers and luxury cabins there were bombs for 5 tons of bombs and defensive weapons. The range of the aircraft would allow this bomber to strike Europe directly from the United States, anticipating this B-36. Also developed options anti-submarine and patrol equipment aircraft, as well as cargo version, both for commercial and military needs.
The price of the aircraft ranged from $7 million to $5 million, depending on the size of the order, and the first Super Clipper Seversky was ready to deliver by early 1940. At the end of 1938, PanAm management announced their preference for the Seversky project, but the order never came. It is not clear whether it was just a loud advertising company or the order prevented the start of The MV. But the project Super Clipper Seversky left its mark on history, appearing in dozens of publications of non-fiction magazines (where it was nicknamed "Flying Hotel") and formed this view of the future of civil passenger aviation.
 
Last edited:

airman

ACCESS: Top Secret
Joined
Oct 14, 2007
Messages
1,297
Reaction score
145
Website
zeef.com
Is it possible that for this project they was thinked to Allison V-3420 for the engines ? Reading all comments seems they was thinked about this engine .
 

blackkite

Don't laugh, don't cry, don't even curse, but.....
Joined
May 31, 2007
Messages
8,075
Reaction score
4,164
Thanks excellent contribution.
 
Last edited:

airman

ACCESS: Top Secret
Joined
Oct 14, 2007
Messages
1,297
Reaction score
145
Website
zeef.com
I suppose all four projects of Super-Clipper : Seversky , Boeing , Consolitated and Sikorsky were ready for Allison V-3420 engines .
 

Similar threads

Top