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SAI and SAI Ambrosini

Apophenia

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SAI and SAI Ambrosini Aircraft Designations

I've had a stab at SAI/SAI Ambrosini designations but found little order to them. There are clumps of designation series (which how I have grouped them) but, overall, SAI's approach to designations was rather random.

The Società Aeronautica Italiana (SAI) formed in 1922 (some sources say 1924) with its headquarters in Milan and works at Passignano sul Trasimeno, Perugia. Ing. Antonio Ambrosini was both SAI Chairman and Managing Director (sometimes the firm's name is given as 'Società Aeronautica Italiana, Ing. A. Ambrosini & C.'). SAI adopted a simple 'SAI.x' designation style.

In 1934 SAI was acquired by the Ambrosini group and renamed SAI Ambrosini. The 'SAI.x' designation style was retained but was also confused by arrival of Ing. Sergio Stefanutti as chief designer. Stefanutti, a Regia Aeronautica officer, [1] had served with the Stabilimento Costruzioni Aeronautiche (SCA) at Guidonia where he designed a range of experimental canard aircraft (which are listed separately, along with later Stefanutti designs for the Stabilimento Costruzioni Aeronautiche with 'SCA.x' designations).

One Stefanutti canard design was built by SAI Ambrosini resulting in the abberant designation SS.4 within the 'SAI.x" numbering sequence.

AFAIK, the SAI.11 parasol monoplane was the last of the 'SS.x' designation series. For some reason, a 1940 S.7 development was designated SAI.107 beginning a new 'SAI.xxx' designation series. The use of the 'S' prefix continued out of habit - even in official publications. Eg:

"Stipa "Velivolo da caccia S.A.I. Ambrosini S 404. Motore IF Zeta" Con relazione della Direzione superiore degli Studi e delle Esperienze." [2]

The 'SAI.xxx' sequence continued until the end of WW2. Hesham claims that SAI Ambrosini had a '400 series' after WW2 running from the SAI-407 to the Frati-designed NF-409 (related to the Frati F.15). Alas, I have not been able to confirm either designation (the only '409' I could find connected to Stelio Frati was the SS 409 drone of 1975).

After the war, another new designation series began the 'S.x" sequence - with S.7 applied to SAI.7 developments. Then, for no obvious reason, designations jump to a 4-digit 'S.1xxx' sequence beginning with the S.1001 Grifo. After the S.1003 project, use of designations seems to lapse. Late SAI Ambrosini designs were given names - eg: Sagittario, Vindex - but if they had designations, I am not aware of them.

There were also 'P' designations ... although whether these were 'P' for Progetto or for the designer Ermenegildo Preti, I am not sure. Perhaps both. Most such designations are in the 'P.xxx' range. However, the P.18 jet trainer project of 1954 plus the P.25 and P.70 engines were certainly Ing. Preti designs.

There are also a few 'widow' designations ... the 1959 XS.1 twin-jet interceptor study (a Stefanutti design but I'm not entirely sure of SAI Ambrosini's involvement); the 1975 SS 409 armed recce drone study; and the modern G97 Spotter.

AFAIK, SAI Ambrosini never applied its own designations to licensed designs - eg: Breda Ba.25, Macchi C.200, CVV-6 Canguro - or the products of outside designers - eg: Stelio Frati's F.4 and F.7 Rondone light planes built in small numbers in collaboration with Aeronautica Lombardi.

Another Aeronautica Lombardi product often associated with SAI Ambrosini is the AL.12P. Wikipedia claims that this 1942 transport glider was designed by 'A. Ambrosini'. AFAIK, Angelo Ambrosini had no involvement. The AL.12P was designed by Stefanutti, Ermenegildo Preti, and Stelio Frati. The gliders were built by Aeronautica Lombarda - hence the 'AL'. I include it here for completeness:

A.R. - 1943 Assalto Radioguidato single-engined flying bomb, x 5
- A.R.: 1 x 1,000 h.p. Fiat A.80 18-cyl, span 17 m, MM.75576
- Aeroplani-Progetti prototipi speciali: Mistel-style vers.
-- http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,1260.msg10142.html
-- http://www.alieuomini.it/files/anteprima/medium/aeronautica_lombarda_assalto_radioguidato,3274.jpg

Postwar Aerfer designs are also attributed to SAI Ambrosini. This seems to be a hangover from the AMI's order for SAI Ambrosini to transfer the Sagittarius II fighter design to Aerfer for further development. Stefanutti being employed as a consultant by AERFER likely further confused researchers.

By 1960, SAI Ambrosini had closed the last of its aviation-related activities - a flying school - and turned to boat-building. I presume that the modern boat-building firm, SAI Ambrosini Marine/Divisione Nautica della SAI Ambrosini is connection with the original firm (although it is not located in the same production space).

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[1] Upon his graduation in aeronautical engineering in 1931, Stefanutti joined the Regia Aeronautica and was assigned to the Direzione delle costruzioni del Ministero dell'Aeronautica.

[2] To add further confusion, this quote connects Luigi Stipa to this 'S 404' fighter while Skybolt has attributed the design of the SAI.404 to Ing. Rossi, chief of the SAI Ambrosini technical office.

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Apophenia

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Stabilimento Costruzioni Aeronautiche (SCA)
- SCA Designations related to Stefanutti


SCA 'SS.x' Designations (Sergio Stefanutti)

SS.1 -- (??) poss. scale flying model of the SS.2

SS.2 -- 1935 canard motor glider, 1 x 18 hp Koller Flugmotor

SS.3 -- 1937 Anitra (Duck) 2-seat canard config. test aircraft
- SS.3: 1 x small 40 hp CNA IIbis horiz-opposed 2-cyl, MM.372
-- aka SCA SS.3 (from maker Stabilimento Construzioni Aeronautiche)

SAI SS.4 -- 1939 single-seat pusher-prop canard fighter, x 1

SCA 'SCA.x' Designation Series (Sergio Stefanutti, et al)

SCA.1 - (??)

SCA.2 - [Project] 1941-1942 assault glider to RA requirement
- SCA.2: DFS 230 copy, wooden fuselage structure, span 21.00 m
-- SCA.2 design by Stefanutti, no interest, project abandoned

SCA.3 - [Project] 1942 transport glider* to RA requirement
- SCA.3: Enlarged SCA.2 concept, 1,800 kg unloaded, 2,500 kg load
-- * Tail/rear fuselage to fold for loading and unloading
-- SCA.3 70% complete Apr 1943 but incomplete at Armistice
-- SCA.3 design by S. Stefanutti and Ermenegildo Preti

Note 'SCA.1' and 'SCA.2' also applied to two airships built by Stabilimento Costruzioni Aeronautica.

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Apophenia

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SAI and SAI Ambrosini 'SAI.x' and 'SS.x' Designations

SAI.1 -- 1935 2-seat biplane light a/c, 1 x prototype*
- SAI.1: 1 x 140 hp Fiat A.54 7-cyl radial, span 8.60 m
-- SAI.1 designed for 1935 Avioraduno del Littorio rally
-- Tandem-seat, pylon-mounted upper wing, I-AZIR/MM.304
-- http://www.giemmesesto.org/Documentazione/Aerei/SAI-1.html

SAI.2 -- 1934 5-seat light monoplane, 1 x prototype, MM.305
- SAI.2: 1 x 140 hp Fiat A.54 7-cyl radial, span 10.24 m
- SAI.2: Designed for 1935 Avioraduno del Littorio rally
-- http://www.giemmesesto.org/Documentazione/Aerei/SAI-2.html
-- http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,2911.msg285065.html#msg285065

SAI.2S -- 1937 4-seat light cabin monoplane, x ? (piccola serie)
- SAI.2S: 1 x 185-200 hp A-R 115-I 6-cyl., span 10.64 m
-- Note: Mixed constr. SAI.2S unrelated to earlier SAI.2 design
-- http://www.giemmesesto.org/Documentazione/Aerei/SAI-2s.html

SAI.3 -- 1937 2-seat mid-wing monoplane trainer/tourer, x 10
- SAI.3 : Open cockpit/canopy, various engines,* span 10.45 m
-- * 1 x 185 hp AR 115-I 6-cyl or 85 hp Fiat A.50 7-cyl radial
-- http://www.giemmesesto.org/Documentazione/Aerei/SAI-2s.html
-- http://aviadejavu.ru/Images6/JS/Janes38-3/192-1.jpg
- SAI.3S: Reduced-chord wing, 1 x Siemens-Halske Sh 14 radial
-- Sole SAI.3S had oper cockpits, reg. I-PIER

SAI SS.4 -- 1939 single-seat pusher-prop canard fighter, x 1
- SS.4: 1x 985 hp I-F Asso XI RC.40 V-12, span (main) 12.32 m
-- SS.4 prototype MM.387, aka Ambrosini SS.4, Progetto Canard
-- http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,2911.msg75983.html#msg75983
-- It's likely that a 'S.A.I.4' designation was ever assigned

SAI.5 -- (??) speculative designation
SAI.6 -- (??) speculative designation

SAI.7 -- 1939 2-seat tandem racer/trainer/tourer, x 12
- SAI.7 racer: 1939 IV Avioraduno del Littorio rally
-- SAI.7 : 1 x 280 hp Hirth HM 508D, 9.00m span, x 2
- SAI.7T: 1943 fighter trainer for Regia Aeronautica
-- SAI.7T: 1 x 280 hp IF Beta RC.10, 9.00m span, x 10
-- http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,2911.msg150131.html#msg150131
-- http://www.giemmesesto.org/Documentazione/Aerei/SAI_Amb_7.html
- S.7 : Postwar SAI.7 developments (see below)

SAI 8 - [Project] 193? reconnaissance flying boat

SAI 9 - [Project] 1938 twin-engined observation aircraft
- SAI 9: wind tunnel model tested, in comp. with Ro.61 [?]

SAI.10 - 1938 Grifone 2-seat parasol monoplane trainer, x 10
- SAI.10 : Prototype, mixed-constr'n, 1 x 60 hp CDA D HO4
- SAI.10 : Offered with German Bramo radial (?? built ??)
- SAI.10 : 1 x 85 hp Fiat A.50 7-cyl radial*, span 10.30 m
-- http://www.aviarmor.net/aww2/_photo_trainer/_ita/sai10/sai10_1.jpg
- SAI.10 engine trials: 160 hp Siemens-Halske Sh 14 7-cyl
- SAI.10 engine trials: A-R 110 4-cyl, becomes SAI.11
- SAI.10 Gabbiano: Twin-float seaplane, prototype only
-- https://www.aviarmor.net/aww2/_photo_trainer/_ita/sai10/sai10_gabbiano_1.jpg
- SAI.10 CNA D.IV: [Project] high-wing cabin monoplane a/c
-- http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,2911.msg150133.html#msg150133

SAI.11 - 1941 higher-powered Grifone development, x 1
- SAI.11: 1 x 130 hp A-R 110 4-cyl inline, span 10.30 m

SAI.12 - (??) speculative designation

SAI 25 - 'SAI 25' likely a typo for SAI 2S, not a 'fighter'

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Apophenia

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SAI Ambrosini 'S.xxx' Aircraft Designations

SAI.107 - 1940 light fighter devel. of SAI.7, x 1*
- SAI.107: 1 x 540 hp I-F Gamma IV-12, span 9.00 m
-- Sole SAI.107 lost 18 July 1941 w/ Arturo Ferrarin
-- http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,2911.msg150136.html#msg150136
- SAI.107 racer: [Project] Sim. to SAI.7 racers
-- http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,2911.msg150138.html#msg150138
-- * SAI.7 prototype Matricola Militare: MM.441

SAI.204 - [Project] 1941 medium bomber
-- http://www.aviarmor.net/aww2/projects/_list.htm

SAI.205-SAI.206 - (??) speculative designations

SAI.207 - 1941 light fighter devel. of SAI.107, x 14*
- SAI.207: 1 x 750 hp I-F Delta IV-12, span 9.00 m
- SAI.207: Prototypes flown 1941 and 1942, x 2
-- Feb '42: Progetto del velivolo SAI 207 modificato
-- * NB: Some sources say total SAI.207 prod. was 13
-- Pre-prod. SAI.207 entered RA service July 1943
-- Feb '43: SAI 207 con due cannoni alari
-- 2,000 x SAI.207 order canc. in favour of SAI.403
-- http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,2911.msg150140.html#msg150140
-- SAI.107 Matr. Militare re-assigned: MM.442, '443

L'Ala d'Italia 1-15 Feb 1943 mentions the possibility of the SAI.207 adapted as an assault aircraft (along with the Regianne Re.2003 and Nardi FN.315). But author Mario Pinti also describes the SAI.207 as a 2-seater with an inline engine (perhaps confusing the SAI.207 with the earlier SAI.7?).

SAI.401 - [Project] Typo for SAI.403 Dardo ??

SAI.402 - Light fighter - typo for SAI.207/SAI.403 ??
- SAI.402 designation assoc. with Bell XP-77 article

SAI.403 - 1941 Dardo light fighter SAI.207 devel., x 1
- SAI.403: 1 x 750 hp I-F Delta IV-12, span 9.00 m
- SAI.403 : Prototype (MM.518), 3,000 SAI.403 ordered*
-- * Savoia-Marchetti x 1,200, Caproni x 1,000, SAI x 800
- SAI.403A: Point-defence fighter, 2 x 12.7 mm Breda-SAFAT
- SAI.403B: Fighter, 2 x 12.7 mm, 2 x MG 151 cannons*
-- * Mauser 15 mm MG 151/15 or 20 mm MG 151/20 guns
- SAI.403C: Long-range (2,320 km) fighter, 2 × MG 151/20
-- http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,2911.msg150144.html#msg150144

SAI.404 - [Project] 1938 4-engined long-range bomber*
- SAI.404: 1938 RA Bombardamento a Grande Raggio (BGR)
-- * Some sources say built and flown on 19 Sept 1940
-- aka Stipa 404 or S.404
- SAI.404: 4 x 840 hp I-F Asso XI,** span 24.00 m
-- ** Fuselage-mounted, driving Stipa-style ducted props
-- SAI.404 aerodynamic qualities questioned by DGCA
-- http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,2911.msg285051.html#msg285051

SAI.404 - [Project] 1942 fighter, SAI.403 evolution
- SAI.404 : 1 x 1,200 hp I-F Zeta X-24, span ?? m
- SAI.404a: Metal structure (Bf 109 techniques)
-- http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,2911.msg150146.html#msg150146
-- NB: RA ref to "caccia S.A.I. Ambrosini S 404"

SAI.405 - (??) Possibly a bomber project

SAI.406 - (??) speculative designation

SAI.407 - (?? or possibly SAI S.407 ??)
- SAI.407: No details, poss. speculative designation

SAI.501- (??) speculative designation
SAI.502 - (??) speculative designation

SAI.503 - [Project] 1942 low-wing fighter, SAI.403 deriv.
- SAI.503: 1 x 1,400 hp I-F Zeta, span ?? m
-- SAI.503 wooden stucture

SAI.504 - [Project] 194? Stipa-type bomber
- SAI.504: Derived from SAI.404 project

SAI.504 - [Project] 194? fighter, SAI.404a devel.
- SAI.504 : 1 x 1,200 hp I-F Zeta X-24, span ?? m
-- SAI.504 adopted wooden constr. (SAI.404a metal)
-- http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,7835.msg68757.html#msg68757


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Apophenia

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SAI Ambrosini Postwar 'S.x' Aircraft Designations

S.7 -- 1949 SAI.7 update military trainer/racer, x 145
- S.7 : 1 x 225 hp A-R 115 ter 6-cyl., span 8.79 m
-- S.7 : Postwar prod'n military trainer/tourer
-- S.7 monoposto: AMI single-seat vers., x 117
-- S.7 biposto: AMI tandem-seat vers., x 28
- Super S.7: 'Supersette' experimental vers, x 2
-- Super S.7: Single-seat, 1 x 400 hp A-R 121, x 1
-- Drw: https://web.archive.org/web/20091027125152/http://geocities.com/fiap_ambrosini/tech/w1.jpg
-- Super S.7: 2-seat, 1 x DH Gipsy Queen, I-PAIN
-- http://www.giemmesesto.org/Documentazione/Aerei/SAI_Amb_Super7.html
-- http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,2911.msg150126.html#msg150126
- S.7 Freccia: S.7 fuselage with swept wings & tail
-- S.7 Freccia was an aerodynamic research testbed
-- http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,2911.msg150127.html#msg150127
- S.7 Freccia Pimene: [Project] Freccia MM.550 turbojet conv.
-- Freccia Pimene: 2 x 330 kg Turbomeca Pimene turbojets
-- Pimene turbojets to be centrally-mounted behind pilot
- S.7 Freccia Marbore: [Project] Freccia MM.550 turbojet conv.
-- Freccia Marbore: 2 x 380 kg Turbomeca Marbore II turbojet
-- Turbomeca Marbore IIs were slightly more powerful
-- http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,2911.msg150128.html#msg150128

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SAI Ambrosini S.1xxx Series Designations

S.1001 - 1947 Grifo 4-seat low-winged light aircraft
-- Stefanutti's S.1001 design inspired by SAI.2S
- S.1001: Air taxi vers., 4-seats, single controls
- S.1001: Basic vers., 4-seat, dual controls
- S.1001: 1 x 112 hp or 130 hp A-R* span 9.90 m
-- * 112 hp A-R 110a or 132 hp A-R 110 ter**
-- ** Israeli AF Grifo had 145 hp DH Gipsy Major
-- https://www.flightglobal.com/FlightPDFArchive/1949/1949%20-%200075.PDF
- S.1001/S: 1 x 130 hp DH Gipsy Major S.1
- S.1001 I-AXES: Record a/c, 1 x A-R 100 bis AL

Sources vary on S.1001 engine options. Among various engine types mentioned are: 112 hp Alfa Romeo 110a; 132 hp (or 150 hp) A-R 110 ter; 145 hp de Havilland Gipsy Major; and 160 hp DH Gipsy Major X (for S.1002)

S.1002 - 1948 Trasimeno* 2-seat S.1001 devel., x 1
- S.1002 : Mil. trainer aimed at AMI, span 10.90 m
-- 1 x 160 hp Gipsy Major X (engine not continued)
- S.1002: Re-engined with 1 x 130 hp Alfa 110-ter P
-- * After SAI location, Passignano sul Trasimeno
-- I-LUAD, aka 'Girfalco', 'Falchetto', crashed 1965
-- Girfalco: http://aviadejavu.ru/Images6/AI/AI58-7/36-5.jpg
-- http://d39a3h63xew422.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/21065010/go-offroad-italian-military-style-in-this-alfa-romeo-matta-58-000-1476934438714.jpg

S.1003 - [Project] 1951 low-wing twin engined light a/c
- S.1003: 2 x 100 hp Walter Minor IV, span 10.90 m
-- S.1003 was considered an enlarged, twin S.1002 devel.
-- S.1003 u/c: retract. nose, fixed trousered main gear
-- http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,28019.msg292205.html#msg292205

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Apophenia

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SAI Ambrosini Undesignated or Unknown Designations

?? - [Project] Jet-propelled fighter feasibility study
- 1 x 1,990 kg de Havilland Ghost centrifugal turbojet

Sagittario - 1953 turbojet aerodynamic research a/c, x 1
- Sagittario: 1 x 840 lbf Turbomeca Marboré II, span 7.50 m
-- Sagittario: Single-seat jet-powered S.7 Freccia deriv.
-- aka 'Turbofreccia', led to Sagittario II (below)
-- 3v: http://www.minijets.org/typo3temp/_processed_/csm_Ambrosini_SAGITTARIO_P3-views_9584b93e0c.jpg
- Sagittario: [Project] Mid-wing, twin tails, trike u/c
-- http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,3627.msg150148.html#msg150148

Sagittario II - [Project] 1953 tricycle vers. of Sagittario
- Sagittario II: AMI ordered project transf. to Aerfer*
-- * Aerfer Sagittario 2 redesigned as metal structure

SAI S.X - [Project] 19?? demonstrator for Vindex fighter
- S.X: Demonstrator was to be based on the SAI S.7*
-- * May simply be a reference to the Sagittario I**
-- ** Also provide data for Vindex transonic fighter

S.Vindex - [Project] 1950 swept-wing fighter a/c
- Vindex: 1 x SNECMA Atar turbojet,* tricycle u/c
-- * Some sources say Vindex to be caccia bimotore
-- http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,3627.msg150147.html#msg150147
-- http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,23936.msg262162.html#msg262162

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SAI Ambrosini 'P' Designations

P.18 -- [Project] 1954 2-seat mid-wing jet trainer
- P.18: 1 x 880 lbf Turbomeca Marbore II, span 9.90 m
-- P.18: Side-by-side 2-seater, all-metal construction
-- http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,9940.msg92500.html

P.25 - 1947 horizontally-opposed 2-cylinder engine
- P.25: Air-cooled 2-stroke 817cc (85 mm x 72 mm)
-- P.25 engine produced 22 hp* @ 3,000rpm, 18 kg
-- Originally intended to produce 26 hp for TO
-- Powered Movo F.M.1, Partenavia P.53, CVV-6 Canguro M, Mantelli AM-11, GCA.2 Dumbo

P.70 - 1947 horizontally-opposed 4-cylinder engine
- P.70: Air-cooled 2-stroke 2,980cc (100 x 92 mm)
-- P.70 engine produced 75 hp @ 2,500rpm, 78 kg
-- Orig. intended to power Preti's PM-280 racer

P.303 - [Project] 1951 2-seat low-wing light a/c
- P.303: 1 x 22 hp SAI Ambrosini P.25 span ??
-- Retr. u/c, Ing. Ermenegildo Preti design
-- http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,28020.msg292214.html#msg292214

P.501 - (??) speculative designation

P.502 - [Project] 1948 5-seat twin-engined touring a/c
- P.502: 2 x 120 hp ??, span 12.64 m
-- http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,28013.msg292147.html#msg292147

P.503-P.511 - (??) speculative designations

P.512 - 1949 twin-engined 2+10 transport conversion
- P.512: 2 x 225 hp* A-R 115 6-cyl., span 21.33 m
-- P.512: Powered vers. of Lombarda AL.12 glider
-- * Some sources say 180 hp for P.512 A-R 115
-- http://www.avia-it.com/act/biblioteca/periodici/PDF%20Riviste/Ala/L'Ala%201948%2002.pdf
-- Plan for higher-powered vers. (Gipsy Queen 30)
-- Flight 11 Nov 1948: P.512 under construction
-- https://www.flightglobal.com/FlightPDFArchive/1949/1949%20-%200075.PDF
-- http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,2093.0.html

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SAI Ambrosini Non-Standard Designations

Doman Ambrosini D-10 - [Project] Licenced Doman D-10B helicopter
- D-10: 1 x 400 hp Lycoming HIO-720-A1A, rotor diam. 14.63 m
-- http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,8663.msg154101.html#msg154101

NF.15 - [Project] 1969 twin-engined Frati F.15 devel.
- NF.15: Rights acquired after prototype flown*
-- https://www.flightglobal.com/FlightPDFArchive/1971/1971%20-%200653.PDF
-- * Anyone know of a matching General Avia twin?

NF.409 - Frati F.15 Picchio light a/c development
- NF.409: No details, poss. metal F.15E derivative

XS.1 - [Project] 1959 twin-engine interceptor
- XS.1: Stefanutti design, for SAI Ambrosini?

SS 409 - [Project] 1975 armed reconnaissance drone
- SS 409: Stefanutti design, consid. to futuristic

G97 Spotter - 2-seat observation ultralight
- G97 : High-wing pusher VLA, alum. constr.
- G97 : 1 x 79 hp Rotax 912, span 8.25 m
- G97V: [Project] 100 hp Rotax 912, 8.75 m
-- http://web.tiscali.it/saiaereonautica/g97ulmuk.htm
-- Dev. into Kohl Mythos via German Aircraft Sky-Maxx

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hesham

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Amazing and brilliant work my dear Apophenia,

and I can add;

SAI.405 was a bomber,not sure,but I will check
NF.409 was developed from Frati F.15
NF.15 was also developed from Frati F.15;
https://www.flightglobal.com/FlightPDFArchive/1971/1971%20-%200653.PDF

SAI.25 was not a typo for SAI.2S,it was a fighter of 1936,and the SAI.2S was a four
seat light aircraft,reply # 12;
http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,7775.msg291878.html#msg291878
 

Apophenia

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Thanks Hesham. I've added the SAI.405. Thanks too for the NF.15 link. This twin-engined NF.15 concept of 1969 is a puzzle. The F.15 Picchio appeared in 1959. Why was SAI Ambrosini developing a ten-year-old design?

And then there's the F.15-derived NF.409. At a wild guess, SAI Ambrosini believed there was potential in the F.15 after Procaer ended its production? The timing suggests follow-ons from the one-off 1968 F.15E with metal airframe ... but who know?

I've included the NF.15 and NF.409 under Non-Standard Designations.

I've seen the argument for the 'SAI.25' as a fighter. With SAI Ambrosini, no out-of-sequence designation would ever surprise me. But have you seen any direct evidence of the existence of this 'SAI.25' fighter other than that one unreferenced mention on Warbirdsforum?
 

hesham

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Thank you my dear Apophenia,

and no clear evidence about SAI.25 to this moment,but I will check.
 

hesham

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Hi,

we can add;

P.12 was the same as Lombarda AL-12,a high-wing transport glider monoplane.
 

Apophenia

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Thanks hesham. I've elected to start a separate listing for all (that I know of) Ermenegildo Preti aircraft designations.

https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,31610.msg348801.html#msg348801
 

hesham

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Apophenia said:
Thanks hesham. I've elected to start a separate listing for all (that I know of) Ermenegildo Preti aircraft designations.

https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,31610.msg348801.html#msg348801
OK my dear Apophenia,

and of course very nice work.
 
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