Rule Britannia.

carmelo

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I love very much the delightful novel "The two Georges" in which American revolution (and French revolution) never happened,and in a 1995 in many respects very similiar to 1935, British Empire reigns over great part of the world.

My question is which can be the more plausible alternate timeline to keep the Britsh Empire,or at least a real strong British federation of Dominions (UK,Canada,Australia,New Zealand), in XXI century?

Need avoid WW-II, WW-I or some change before 1900?
 

Orionblamblam

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carmelo said:
I love very much the delightful novel "The two Georges" in which American revolution (and French revolution) never happened,and in a 1995 in many respects very similiar to 1935, British Empire reigns over great part of the world.

My question is which can be the more plausible alternate timeline to keep the Britsh Empire,or at least a real strong British federation of Dominions (UK,Canada,Australia,New Zealand), in XXI century?

Need avoid WW-II, WW-I or some change before 1900?
If WWI had somehow been avoided, WWII would have never happened. And no WWI *also* probably means that the Tsars stay in control of Russia and *perhaps* the Communists fade from history. No Nazis + no Commies = no "empire fatigue." The UK didn't *lose* their Empire, they gave it up. Partially due to being economically devastated after WWII, partially due to imperialism having gotten a bad name.
 

GWrecks

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Orionblamblam said:
carmelo said:
I love very much the delightful novel "The two Georges" in which American revolution (and French revolution) never happened,and in a 1995 in many respects very similiar to 1935, British Empire reigns over great part of the world.

My question is which can be the more plausible alternate timeline to keep the Britsh Empire,or at least a real strong British federation of Dominions (UK,Canada,Australia,New Zealand), in XXI century?

Need avoid WW-II, WW-I or some change before 1900?
If WWI had somehow been avoided, WWII would have never happened. And no WWI *also* probably means that the Tsars stay in control of Russia and *perhaps* the Communists fade from history. No Nazis + no Commies = no "empire fatigue." The UK didn't *lose* their Empire, they gave it up. Partially due to being economically devastated after WWII, partially due to imperialism having gotten a bad name.
A lot of problems would've been avoided if it weren't for WWI.

It's astounding to think people know so much about WWII and not WWI. WWI was far more responsible for everything that happened in the 20th century, let alone the 21st. If I were teaching a history curriculum I would put far more effort into the first world war than the second.
 

Orionblamblam

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GWrecks said:
It's astounding to think people know so much about WWII and not WWI.
WWII was more photogenic, in every conceivable sense. Additionally, WWI came along at a historic turning point: before then Europeans wars could be kinda seen as adventures, with cavalry charges and flashing sabers and polished brass buttons and romance and all that rubbish. The machine gun, tank, flamethrower, war gases and few true military victories put an end to that nonsense. As WWII came along, the romance was mostly gone, and the people outside the fascists countries smart enough to realize that war was coming probably thought to themselves some variation of "well, this is gonna suck."

The people who witnessed WWI seemed to just kinda want to *forget* WWI. And when WWII came along, WWI seemed like it was just the leadup to the larger war.
 

royabulgaf

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Predicting the past is always easy. In retrospect everything seems inevitable. Russia, that prison of nations, and Austria-Hungary, that trailer park of nations, were coming apart at the seams. The Ottoman Empire had a number of ethnic/religious minoriotioes that had European compatriots. Something would happen sooner or later.
 

Orionblamblam

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royabulgaf said:
Something would happen sooner or later.
Indeed. Archduke Franz Funnystache doesn't get shot. The war doesn't kick off on schedule; military festivities are held off for another five years. By that time the UK and Germany are best buds; the Russian Empire has been overthrown, the Tsar replaced by a free-market capitalist republic; France is now the Peoples Democratic Socialist Republic of France and is in alliance talks with a resurgent Spanish Empire, fresh from their defeat of Sicily; the newly establish nation of New Israel is completing its conquest of Libya and the Arabian peninsula. Negotiations are underway between President Theodore Roosevelt and Canada and Mexico to create the Greater United States, one unified county from the north pole down to the Panama Canal.

When the Great War finally starts, it's the forces of democracy in the form of Britain, Germany and Russia vs. the forces of tyranny in the form of Spain and France.

Just a *little* bit different...
 

kaiserd

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Truly bizarre to discuss the British Empire and only mention its majority white-population “dominions”.
You’ve not mentioned India (& Pakistan), Hong Kong, South Africa (or any other African colony/ possession), Malaysia, etc. Or Ireland for that matter.
The places the British Empire rulled by a greater or lessor extent by force rather than by the consent of the majority of the population.

These omissions gets to the root of the “rose-tinted glasses” view of the British Empire and how “uncomfortable” aspects get selectively forgotten or greatly de-emphasized.
The British Empire was not quite as brutal as some of its contemporaries (Belgium in the Congo & France in Algeria & Vietnam comes to mind) but was still from a economic perspective based on exploitation and from a political perspective built on divide-and-rule tactics that stored up so much trouble for down the road.
And I say this from a relatively moderate perspective; many many people from around the world would have far far harsher things to say about the massively-consequential mistakes and undoubted crimes of the British Empire.

And even in respect of the likes of Canada, Australia & New Zealand I think a good argument can be made that their common interest and buy-in to being in a long-lived future British Empire had started to wane before WW1 and the world wars probably extended their period of association with the UK longer than they would have otherwise been, rather than hastening the loosening of these associations.

But this strange fantasy of a wider (“consensual” & “white”?) British Empire Mark 2 (rather than the far looser and somewhat meaningless Commonwealth, plus eventual EU membership), which ignores Canadian, Australian and New Zealand total lack of interest in such a miss-conceived scheme, is held by a portion of some of the UK politicians who actively adocated for Brexit and helps inform their fantasies of post-Brexit Britain.
Another version of this fantasy also brings in the US, which I’m sure the US population would just love.....
 

Antonio

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Warning: thread topic could be seen from opposed points of view, beign also far from the forum's main subject again. I recommend careful examination of the text before posting to avoid ending in personal attacks otherwise I'll close it immediately.
 
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