Rockwell T-2 Buckeye Projects & Variants

[frank]

I couldn't find anything already posted about this, but there's an auction on eBay for a pic of this 4 seater buckeye prototype. Can't really tell much, but see for yourselves.

http://cgi.ebay.com/NORTH-AMERICAN-AVIATION-T-2-BUCKEYE-4-SEAT-XFV-12-/160554029779?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2561c412d3

 

[Jschmus]

From what I recall, it was developed in-house by NA. It was intended to be used as some sort of EW trainer. joncarrfarrelly over on whatifmodelers.com posted some photos a while back.

 

[Arjen]

No prototype, just a mockup built on airframe YT2J-1/T-2A 144218.

Source: "North American AIRCRAFT 1934-1999 Volume 2" by Kevin Thompson, Narkiewicz//Thompson 1999, ISBN 0-913322-06-07

 

[Pioneer]

North American Aviation Columbus Ohio featuring the one of a kind four seat T-2 Buckeye experimental prototype. This aircraft was developed for use as a NFO trainer.

What was the NFO trainer??

Regards
Pioneer

 

[fightingirish]

Maybe someone at whatifmodelers.com or arcforums.com can write an e-mail to joncarrfarrelly, if he still can show us his pictures. I looked last night at web.archive.org/, but I didn't find them.

North American Aviation Columbus Ohio featuring the one of a kind four seat T-2 Buckeye experimental prototype. This aircraft was developed for use as a NFO trainer.

What was the NFO trainer??
Regards
Pioneer

Wiki says:

A Naval Flight Officer (NFO) is an officer in the United States Navy or United States Marine Corps that specializes in airborne weapons and sensor systems.NFOs are not pilots (Naval Aviators) per se, but they may perform many "co-pilot" functions, depending on the type of aircraft.

 

[frank]

That's strange. I did a search for 'buckeye' & found it right off. http://www.whatifmodelers.com/index.php/topic,21396.15.html

Maybe someone at whatifmodelers.com or arcforums.com can write an e-mail to joncarrfarrelly, if he still can show us his pictures. I looked last night at web.archive.org/, but I didn't find them.

North American Aviation Columbus Ohio featuring the one of a kind four seat T-2 Buckeye experimental prototype. This aircraft was developed for use as a NFO trainer.

What was the NFO trainer??
Regards
Pioneer

Wiki says:

A Naval Flight Officer (NFO) is an officer in the United States Navy or United States Marine Corps that specializes in airborne weapons and sensor systems.NFOs are not pilots (Naval Aviators) per se, but they may perform many "co-pilot" functions, depending on the type of aircraft.

 

[Arjen]

Images from Kevin Thompson's book. Send me a PM for bigger images. Buy the book if you're in any way interested in NAA, and volume 1 by Norm Avery. They're good.

 

[fightingirish]

That's strange. I did a search for 'buckeye' & found it right off. http://www.whatifmodelers.com/index.php/topic,21396.15.html

OK, I also did a search for 'buckeye', but I found another topic, where joncarrfarrelly had only linked the pictures from his website.
Thanks for finding the right topic at whatifmodelers!

 

[Graham1973]

Model used in testing a supercritial wing design, the shape looks familiar to me.

Source:

http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/19830002804_1983002804.pdf

and

http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/19830002811_1983002811.pdf

 

[Stargazer]

Model used in testing a supercritial wing design, the shape looks familiar to me.

It sure should...

 

[hesham]

Hi,

here is the North American/Rockwell T-2C Buckeye trainer aircraft,fitted
with Supercritical Wing;

http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/19830002811_1983002811.pdf

 

[thrax]

Is it true that the T-2C (or -E that we use over here) have the same wing as the P-51 mustangs?

http://www.airliners.net/photo/Greece---Air/North-American-Rockwell/2174403/L/&sid=20d3976d334c11b0ec149d98f7e127e8

they do look similar

 

[CostasTT]

I would certainly think the structure would be similar, considering the evolution lineage: P-51, T-28, T-2.

 

[Stargazer]

There is a second report about the Supercritical wing T-2C:

http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/19820072404_1982072404.pdf

 

[CostasTT]

These are not fitted with a supercritical wing, but they are rare pics in showing USN T-2Cs with the underwing gun pods:

 

[Stargazer]

Topics merged. Thanks Graham for bringing this to my attention.

 

[Mark Nankivil]

Hi All -

On EPay at the moment:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NORTH-AMERICAN-AVIATION-T-2-BUCKEYE-4-SEAT-PROPOSAL-FACTORY-DESK-MODEL-TOPPING-/160922661555?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2577bcf2b3

Enjoy the Day! Mark

 

[Triton]

Nice find, Mark.

 

[Mark Nankivil]

Greetings All -

Spent a fine day yesterday scanning photos from the Gerald Balzer collection at his home, a true gentleman and I enjoy spending time with him.

Found a number of photos of the 4 seat mock up in the files - here's the first scans. Note too what's in the background of #5....

Enjoy the Day! Mark

 

[hesham]

Wow,marvelous pictures Mark,thank you for sharing us.

 

[Abraham Gubler]

Great pics. If NAA had built a version as an executive transport they could have had problems with the name. Using the precedent set by the Sabreliner it could be either the Buckliner or the Eyeliner... Not even (the) Mad Men could have sold that.

 

[Jos Heyman]

Does anybody know in which year this T-2 mock-up was built?

And, yes, note two XFV-12A mock-ups - or could it be one mock-up and the real thing?

 

[aim9xray]

No, the near one is the wood mockup (note the posts hold it up) and the rear appears to be an engineering mockup with real parts (such as landing gear). This would be in the 1973-4 timeframe.

 

[AeroFranz]

From a friend who worked at the plant in that timeframe:


"I don't remember ever seeing a four seat T-2 or even hearing talk about one but the photo is real. The XFV-12A mockup is sitting behind it and next to that are partially assembled parts from cannibalized F-4s and A-4s for the real XFV-12A assembled to show how they'll be used to build the prototype. I doubt that's the prototype being built, though, since I think this area was the mockup shop."

 

[Mark Nankivil]

Greetings All -

A few more scans for you. Most definitely a mock up and there was no flying prototype. Shame as it looks pretty good to me.

Aerofranz, if you could, see if your friend might recognize any of the people in the photo.

Enjoy the Day! Mark

 

[Stargazer]

Do the last three pics indicate that the front part only was a mock-up grafted onto an existing airframe, or am I getting this wrong?

 

[circle-5]

Great photos -- thank you Mark. 144218 started its life as an early T2J single-engine Buckeye, then got a second engine and later these extra three seats. I wonder if it spent most of its life in Columbus as a test airframe for North American / Rockwell...

 

[AeroFranz]

More from my friend (note he's only seen picture #5):

"Here's what I found on the bureau number:

144217/144218 North American YT2J-1 Buckeye Later redesignated YT-2A

So this airplane started life as the second prototype YT2J-1 which means it was originally built with a single engine. [note to Stargazer] It wasn't uncommon for airplane companies to hack up prototypes and mockups of earlier variants to make later ones.""The fact that the canopy isn't finished and doesn't have plexiglas tells me this was probably that prototype that Rockwell was using to mock up a four seat NFO trainer because the cockpit layout is very much like the EA-6B's. The pic would have been taken in 1973-1974 which might have coincided with the EA-6B competition. The advanced design bullpen was upstairs and about 100 yards from where the pic was taken. Too bad the wall art isn't readable because, from what little I can see, it answers your questions.]So would the wall art around the XFV-12As. I vaguely remember walking through this area to look at the XFV-12A mockups and remember seeing the McD parts."

 

[Mark Nankivil]

Thanks. The prints in Gerry's folder are all contact prints so the images are small and there's not enough there to pull the detail out on the walls and posters. If you look at the XVF-12 thread, I posted some pics, again from Gerry's collection, of the bits and pieces of A-4s an F-4s that gave up their parts to the XFV-12 program.

Since most prototypes/early development airframes rarely rack up many flight hours, this one seems to have led a varied but useful life - three of them in fact. I wonder if there is a single engine variant still around anywhere? Would be interesting to see.

Enjoy the Day! Mark

 

[Jemiba]

I'm somewhat wondering about the expense for an EW trainer. Seating arrangement would have been
identical to the Prowler of course, but for the training of a complete crew a place for the instructor still
would have been missing. A modified biz jet would have been a cheaper solution, offering more space and
to my opinion, the unobstructed view from the cockpit may be of lesser importance to an EW operator
either. There doesn't seem to be many possibilities for carrying the needed equipment, don't know, if it
at least one hardpoint for the EW pods would fit under a wing. So, maybe there were other tasks envisaged
for this design ?

 

[cluttonfred]

Great pics. If NAA had built a version as an executive transport they could have had problems with the name. Using the precedent set by the Sabreliner it could be either the Buckliner or the Eyeliner... Not even (the) Mad Men could have sold that.

Despite AG's levity, this four-seat Buckeye mockup also suggest a very easy potential development as a light carrier onboard delivery (COD) aircraft to supplement larger aircraft in that role. Exchange the ejection seats and the full canopy for ordinary seats and a turtledeck with windows and you would have had a carrier-capable little twin-jet much faster than than the big CODs. The admirals would have loved it.

 

[Jemiba]

...Exchange the ejection seats and the full canopy for ordinary seats and a turtledeck with windows and you would
have had a carrier-capable little twin-jet much faster than than the big CODs. The admirals would have loved it.

Maybe that would have loved it even more with ejection seats ?
But you are sketching a use, that I was thinking of, too. A "VIP carrier taxi" !

 

[cluttonfred]

I am assuming that the larger COD aircraft do not have ejections seats--presumably it would make the passengers a bit nervous to know that they crew had them and they did not.

 

[aim9xray]

The displays on the wall behind the mockup read (from left to right):

Prototype configuration
- (missing poster)

Aircraft Systems- Commonality
- Performance Data
- Cockpit Layout
- Avionics System
- Modified AN/APQ-153 Radar System
- Flight Control System
- Escape System
- Emergency Escape
- Fuel System
- Hydraulic System
- (indecipherable)
- (indecipherable)
Inboard Profile

The mention of the Emmerson APQ-153 (intercept radar for the F-5E) raises the possibility that the design was tailored for a possible Navy requirement for a NFO radar trainer. Recall that the Grumman TC-4C was in use at this time for A-6 radar flight training and that Grumman had proposed a Gulfstream II with what appears to be a F-14 radome to the Navy (presumably for the F-14 NFO AWG-9 training mission).

 

[elmayerle]

FWIW, I believe the four-seat T-2 was designed as a trainer for EA-6B crews (though I can't remember, at this remove, where I read that).

 

[circle-5]

Manufacturer models from NAA Columbus Division, showing 4-seat Buckeye with earlier T2J-1 (single engine) and T-2B (twin engine) Navy trainers.

 

[hesham]

Wow,excellent Circle-5.

 

[Stargazer]

Ditto!

 

[Mark Nankivil]

Dittox2! Mark

 

[circle-5]

And here is just the NFO Trainer (?) model, without the distractions.

Question for moderators: why is there a question mark on this topic? How about an exclamation point instead?