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Rockwell B-1 Lancer

JFC Fuller

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bring_it_on said:
When the radar mission requires a forward, right or left region of regard, the antenna is physically movable to three different positions on a roll detent mount. The radar can, therefore, look off to either side of the aircraft or forward by rolling the antenna about an axis
That was exactly what I thought when I first saw that arrangement, the radar array is pointed downward and forward as you would expect from a bomber radar and the gymbal gives it the ability to rotate the array to increase the downward search area either side of the aircraft.

Also, looking at the picture of the new array it looks like if you tried to rotate the array to far it would hit the bulkhead it is attached to.
 

sferrin

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JFC Fuller said:
Also, looking at the picture of the new array it looks like if you tried to rotate the array to far it would hit the bulkhead it is attached to.
Good point. Didn't look at the angle very close.
 

mkellytx

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JFC Fuller said:
bring_it_on said:
When the radar mission requires a forward, right or left region of regard, the antenna is physically movable to three different positions on a roll detent mount. The radar can, therefore, look off to either side of the aircraft or forward by rolling the antenna about an axis
That was exactly what I thought when I first saw that arrangement, the radar array is pointed downward and forward as you would expect from a bomber radar and the gymbal gives it the ability to rotate the array to increase the downward search area either side of the aircraft.

Also, looking at the picture of the new array it looks like if you tried to rotate the array to far it would hit the bulkhead it is attached to.


Bring it on, good find.


The LOA gimbals to increase the FOV to the sides. When gimbaled to the side the FOV actually extends behind the 3-9 line.
 

Flyaway

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Revitalized Bomber​

Air Frame: The 28th Bomb Wing’s first B-1B Lancer upgraded with Sustainment Block-16 touches down at Ellsworth AFB, S.D., May 2, 2016. The SB-16 changes the way tactical and flight information is presented to the Lancer flight crew, providing significant improvements in situational awareness, combat effectiveness, and survivability. (Air Force photo by Airman Donald Knechtel.) (Click on image above to reach wallpaper version)

http://www.airforcemag.com/DRArchive/Pages/2016/May%202016/May%2009%202016/Revitalized-Bomber.aspx
 

TomS

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ysi_maniac said:
Were there competitors of this project?
For the B-1? Advanced Manned Strategic Aircraft (AMSA).

https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,484.0.html
 

AN/AWW-14(V)

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GBU-53/B & ADM-160 MALD behind on the trails




some weapon test efforts

JASSM ERT likely JASSM-XR?
QS064J nice secret designation
PDU-5 just the leaflet dispersal unit
JDAM-ER still alive

 
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sferrin

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"EDWARDS AFB, Calif. --- The 412th Test Wing, along with Air Force Global Strike Command and industry partners, held an expanded carriage demonstration with the B-1B Lancer bomber at Edwards Air Force Base, California, Aug. 28.

The demonstration showcased the feasibility of increasing the B-1B weapons capacity to integrate future advanced weapons.

The two potential programs – external carriage and long bay options – would allow the B-1B to carry weapons externally, significantly increasing its magazine capacity for munitions, as well as adding larger, heavier munitions, such as hypersonic weapons.

“The purpose of the demonstration was to show that we’re still able to move the bulkhead from the forward intermediate bay to the forward location; increasing the intermediate bay capacity from 180 inches to 269 inches, said Lt. Col. Dominic Ross, B-1B program element monitor, AFGSC. “Additionally, we demonstrated that we can still carry weapons externally on six of the eight hard points, which increases our overall carriage capacity.”


Ross said the expanded capabilities will be conventional only, keeping the aircraft compliant with New Strategic Arms Reduction Treaty, or New START. "

Which makes you wonder why they ever got rid of the capability.

edit: 269" gives them enough room for a GBU-57 MOP.
 
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Mark S.

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Don't think they got rid of the capability but rather never used it. The long bay option was for the ALCM and ACM. The ALCM could only be carried internally because of the harsh acoustical environment that it wasn't designed for under the aircraft and the ACM integration was canceled at the end of the Cold War. At that time there was no need for carrying long weapons. Interesting that the AGM-183A fits in the long bay. Is the B-52's bay 269 inches or was it designed to fit in the B-1's bay? Just read where the bay was designed so that the bulkhead could be removed entirely resulting in a 31 ft. bay. Think the rotary launcher for that length would have too great of diameter to be useful (rule of thumb suggests 15 inches) but sure they could come up with other suspension systems.
 

Forest Green

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Don't think they got rid of the capability but rather never used it. The long bay option was for the ALCM and ACM. The ALCM could only be carried internally because of the harsh acoustical environment that it wasn't designed for under the aircraft and the ACM integration was canceled at the end of the Cold War. At that time there was no need for carrying long weapons. Interesting that the AGM-183A fits in the long bay. Is the B-52's bay 269 inches or was it designed to fit in the B-1's bay? Just read where the bay was designed so that the bulkhead could be removed entirely resulting in a 31 ft. bay. Think the rotary launcher for that length would have too great of diameter to be useful (rule of thumb suggests 15 inches) but sure they could come up with other suspension systems.
All the wiring for nuclear pylons and nuclear weapons was removed.

 

rooster

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Off topic perhaps, but when was the tooling for the bone scrapped and the ability to procure more bombers lost? When the B2s were looking like we weren't going to get what we needed, I had hoped for someone to realize a modernized bone with aesa and other upgrades would suffice as multirole bomber with a2a and maritime abilities. If we could have built just 48 in the 90s they would still be filling a gap or a need that still exists today. What would they be able to carry? 24 aim120d on rotary launchers? Heck that would be a great cruise missile killer with huge loiter times over thousands of miles.
 

Foo Fighter

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It seems to me that we spend decades on projects, moving the goalpost. I believe early adoption with modernisation is the best way, look at how the 16 has changed from the original electric jet. Why should the bone not have a role with new wings or even new build airframes? Do they need the 21 for every role? Why not haul out the BUFF airframes from the boneyard and refit them, give the aircraft new engines and systems and you can retain the 21's for the high threat environments they were intended for leaving the rest for other duties? They apparently want MORE bomber airframes do they not?
 

sferrin

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Because basically everything needed to make new B-1Bs is long gone. And has been for decades.
 

Foo Fighter

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Reverse engineering the wing and main spars is hardly difficult. Improving them either.
 

Forest Green

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There is no reverse engineering required really. The designs will still be stored somewhere, as will the designs for the jigs and the tooling list required.
 

sferrin

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There is no reverse engineering required really. The designs will still be stored somewhere, as will the designs for the jigs and the tooling list required.
LOL Good luck with that.
 

Forest Green

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LOL Good luck with that.
Oh it's not easy. You would have to rebuild the jigs etc. and arrange the staff and tooling, but there is no reverse engineering, it's merely repeat engineering.
 

sferrin

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LOL Good luck with that.
Oh it's not easy. You would have to rebuild the jigs etc. and arrange the staff and tooling, but there is no reverse engineering, it's merely repeat engineering.
The required drawings are almost certainly gone. Probably a lot of the vendors too. Hell one of the buildings they used to build the B-1B was used as a soundstage to shoot the whirlpool scene in Pirates of the Caribbean. They could do that because the building was EMPTY.
 

Forest Green

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The required drawings are almost certainly gone. Probably a lot of the vendors too. Hell one of the buildings they used to build the B-1B was used as a soundstage to shoot the whirlpool scene in Pirates of the Caribbean. They could do that because the building was EMPTY.
Wow, really? I worked in the UK defence industry and every document gets warehoused until after the aircraft is withdrawn from service. Naturally different companies would be involved where others have ceased to exist.

That said, I don't see more B-1s as a way forward.
 

Foo Fighter

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No but, new wings might just be a way to maintain the ability of the bomber fleet via diversity. Why use a B-21 for low intensity ops and why not have a variety of aircraft in supporting roles to the 21's?
 

TomcatViP

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because sooner or later the cost of a derelict complex airframe to sustain will offset that of a shiny modern one. If it cost less, is safer and can fulfill a larger set of mission, it's way more interesting to divest the old one.
 

Colonial-Marine

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Back when Boeing offered the B-1R wasn't it implied those would be new aircraft?
 

Orionblamblam

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I worked in the UK defence industry and every document gets warehoused until after the aircraft is withdrawn from service.

"Warehoused" as in "we shoved everything in a bunch of unmarked boxes and sent them to Iron Mountain to be forgotten alongside the Ark of the Covenant, the One True Cross, the card catalog from the Library of Alexandria, Excalibur, Flight 19 and season 4 of Star Trek, the one where Yeoman Rand came back and married Captain Kirk?"
 

rooster

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LOL Good luck with that.
Oh it's not easy. You would have to rebuild the jigs etc. and arrange the staff and tooling, but there is no reverse engineering, it's merely repeat engineering.
The required drawings are almost certainly gone. Probably a lot of the vendors too. Hell one of the buildings they used to build the B-1B was used as a soundstage to shoot the whirlpool scene in Pirates of the Caribbean. They could do that because the building was EMPTY.
Don't bet on the drawings being gone! One of my very first jobs out of college was transferring engineering drawings from a nameless combat aircraft into a digitized computer database such that the government could rebuild parts as the aircraft was going to serve a vital role for decades to come. At least that was the story that existed as to why it was being done.

I would not be surprised from that experience if there are digital records going back as far back as the F4 and F111.

My buddy ironically got a similar job for another company except he was cleaning up digital images of parts that had blotches caused by early photocopiers.

I guess no one knows then the bones tools were scrapped. The government probably didn't brag about it like with the tomcat. Either way, such a shame to have only built 100. Had tons of potential relevant even today. We throw away more capability than the rest of the world has combined.
 
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Forest Green

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"Warehoused" as in "we shoved everything in a bunch of unmarked boxes and sent them to Iron Mountain to be forgotten alongside the Ark of the Covenant, the One True Cross, the card catalog from the Library of Alexandria, Excalibur, Flight 19 and season 4 of Star Trek, the one where Yeoman Rand came back and married Captain Kirk?"
The documents all have specific numbering and their location is stored on the Iron Mountain database. E.g. the Ark is BAE/MAD/ARK/001 and 002 for the Spear of Destiny and so forth.

But seriously, the warehousing isn't that bad, after all, they are still releasing declassified documents from 50+ years ago.
 

Orionblamblam

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But seriously, the warehousing isn't that bad, after all, they are still releasing declassified documents from 50+ years ago.
Sure, some. And often in terrible reproduction quality. Many's the scan of a diagram where only a few scattered line fragments remain to tempt you with the *idea* that there might have once been a general arrangement drawing there at one time. Look at what NASA-Langley did to the large format diagrams of hypersonic vehicles in the Penland collection. Gah.
 

Silencer1

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We could see something similar on the other shore of Atlaintic ocean (Pacific as well) - Russia restore production of Tu-160 Blackjacs after decades of launching the last (Soviet-time) example. I'm sure that's not an easy task, though...
 

sferrin

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We could see something similar on the other shore of Atlaintic ocean (Pacific as well) - Russia restore production of Tu-160 Blackjacs after decades of launching the last (Soviet-time) example. I'm sure that's not an easy task, though...
Difference is the line never went anywhere. It just collected dust. Big difference.
 

Forest Green

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Sure, some. And often in terrible reproduction quality. Many's the scan of a diagram where only a few scattered line fragments remain to tempt you with the *idea* that there might have once been a general arrangement drawing there at one time. Look at what NASA-Langley did to the large format diagrams of hypersonic vehicles in the Penland collection. Gah.
The B-1 isn't that old though, there are probably electronic archives for its drawings.
 

sferrin

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Sure, some. And often in terrible reproduction quality. Many's the scan of a diagram where only a few scattered line fragments remain to tempt you with the *idea* that there might have once been a general arrangement drawing there at one time. Look at what NASA-Langley did to the large format diagrams of hypersonic vehicles in the Penland collection. Gah.
The B-1 isn't that old though, there are probably electronic archives for its drawings.
I wouldn't bet money on it.
 

Orionblamblam

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More prosaically, there could be significant issues with launching 30 year-old software applications, and converting data structures and formats, so they can be read by modern IT equipment. This is assuming the files are intact and readable in the first place.
Indeed. I've recently come across a pile of my old files... on floppy disks. Into the trash they go, because what the frak am I gonna do with a floppy disk? Is there a smartphone app I can download? Just imagine if they were on casettes (like back when I had a Texas Instruments computer with a casette tape memory system), or 8-tracks, or real-to-reals, or the giant magnetic disks?

And hell, I haven't played my favorite video game in some years becauae the frakkin' thing won't run on Windows 7 and beyond.
 

Colonial-Marine

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Surprisingly enough there are companies out there that still make 3.5" floppy drives and disks. 5.25" is dead and buried though and presumably everything before that.
 

sferrin

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More prosaically, there could be significant issues with launching 30 year-old software applications, and converting data structures and formats, so they can be read by modern IT equipment. This is assuming the files are intact and readable in the first place.
Indeed. I've recently come across a pile of my old files... on floppy disks. Into the trash they go, because what the frak am I gonna do with a floppy disk? Is there a smartphone app I can download? Just imagine if they were on casettes (like back when I had a Texas Instruments computer with a casette tape memory system), or 8-tracks, or real-to-reals, or the giant magnetic disks?

And hell, I haven't played my favorite video game in some years becauae the frakkin' thing won't run on Windows 7 and beyond.
Or old burned CDs that can't be read for whatever reason.
 

Forest Green

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Surprisingly enough there are companies out there that still make 3.5" floppy drives and disks. 5.25" is dead and buried though and presumably everything before that.
I still have a 5.25" with Platoon on it for a C64 in the loft. I have it on tape too. Are we saying that my loft has better data storage integrity than the DoD?
 

_Del_

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Well, A) it is the federal government. Someone could have wiped it with a cloth or something

and B) somewhere in Uncle Sam's attic covers a lot of area with several nooks and crannies, and the note he wrote fo remind himself of where it was stashed over thirty years ago could itself very well be stashed in it's own corner of the attic underneath piles of old National Geographic magazines, elementary school report cards and high school yearbooks, old luggage, boxes of books Uncle Sam still hasn't unpacked, baby clothes and kindergarten pictures, and clothes Lady Liberty promised herself in 1955 that she would lose the weight to fit back into one day.
 
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