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Question about tiptanks

Jemiba

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Don’t know, if there’s a general answer, but nevertheless, here’s the question :
Many jets were fitted with tiptanks, no need to post a long list here, I think. Are
those tanks easily detachable, or are they more or less a part of the structure ?
If they are easily detachable, what’s about the wingtip ? In the case of e.g. the
F-104, it’s no question, I think, the wingtip is straight, so it easily fits to the
tubular section of the tank. But in other cases the tip is curved, so it won’t fit
to the outside of a tiptank. Are those tanks fitted with a kind of a pocket, that
covers the standard wingtip (Fig.1), or can the wingtips just be changed (Fig.2)?
 

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elmayerle

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Well, the F-5/F-20 is like the F-104 in that respect. It all depends on the requirements, for instance the F-89 and F-94 have, to the best of my knowledge, permanently mounted tiptanks. The F-5/F-20, with area ruled tiptanks have some provisions in the wing for swapping tiptanks with Sidewinder rails (though, technically, the F-5E/F and F-20 were never cleared to use tiptanks but share wing structure and plumbing with the F-5A/B and can be fitted with tiptanks). I'd have to research it, but I believe that the A-37 has permanent tiptanks as its engines are rather more thirsty than the T-37's. In civil aircraft, the tiptanks on the Learjet 23/24/25/35/36 are integral to the aircraft design and can't be removed, though portions of them can be modified for other purposes (I've seen pics of some special duty Learjets with a radar out there).

I would certainly imagine that the wingtip would have to come off to provide access to solid structure to mount the tank to when it is removeable, I don't think a pocket in the tank would work that well from a loads standpoint.
 

Jemiba

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Well, the T-37/A-37 probably is a good example for my problem, as I'me searching
for an answer for a similar type .. ;) .
I've two 3-views of the MS.760A Paris without tiptanks, but still yet no photoraphic
evidence, that it was ever flown without, but at least for the 760C Paris III. And the
wing of the MS.760 was in fact identical to that of the MS.755 Fleuret, always without
tiptanks during it's short carreer . But changing the tip and adding the necessary plumbing
wouldn't have been a great modification .
But as I understand, tiptanks generally aren't a part, that could be put on or put off in
no time, so they probably they have to be regarded as permanently in most cases ...
and I have to use another method for showing those details hidden by them in the profile !
 

CFE

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On the F2H Banshee, tip tanks were removable. They weren't fitted at all to the F2H-1, they were almost always carried by the F2H-2, and they were occasionally carried by the F2H-3/4.

I believe that the tanks were part of the structure on the F9F Panther, with the exception of the XF9F-2.
 

Jemiba

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In the meantime, I've browsed through several photos and for detachable
tip tanks I think, the answer is to replace the wing tip with the tank. This
means, similar to figure 2, but the wing tip with straight edge is part of the
tank itself.
 
S

Snakebite

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I remember seeing a photo of a Seahawk with two cylindrical containers, and they had two holes at the top. I showed it to a friend, and he said they were just detachable tiptanks. I think different. What gives? Are they some kind of guns? They don't look like the gun pods I've seen.
 

rousseau

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All of tiptanks are part of structure so counldn't be droped, because if the tiptanks is droped, the bolt that used for riveting tiptank will cause mussy flow. Wingtip is so important in aerodynemics, anything wrong will lead to accident.
 

Jemiba

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Hi Rousseau,
tiptanks cannot be jettisonned in flight, that's clear, question was just, if
the can easily be removed on the ground, and for some types, this seems to
be possible, by replacing them with standard wingtips. Ok, there's still the
question, what means "easily" ! In this case I would think of some hours, as the
wingtips usually houses navigation lights, so it would be necessary to work on
the wiring (Some of the argentine Morane MS.760, for example, seem to have been
flown without tiptanks sometimes).
About the Seahawk, I have found no pictures showing it with tiptanks, just with
underwing tanks on pylons ...
 

rousseau

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In this case, my answer is no, it couldn't be replaced between normal tip-wing and tiptank. If you want to do this, please send it back to factory, not just at airport.
 

CFE

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rousseau said:
All of tiptanks are part of structure so counldn't be droped, because if the tiptanks is droped, the bolt that used for riveting tiptank will cause mussy flow. Wingtip is so important in aerodynemics, anything wrong will lead to accident.

That's not true for all aircraft. On planes like the P-80 where the tip tanks were carried underneath the wingtip structure, the tanks could be jettisoned. I believe that the F2H Banshee could jettison its tanks as well.
 

Jemiba

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".. were carried underneath the wingtip"
that's probably already the explanation, because, that's no tiptank in a
strict sense, I think, it's a droptank at an extreme position.
But if you look at the argentine Moranes MS.760 Paris, there are photos
with and (fewer) without tiptanks (sorry for mentioning this type again, but
it's the reason for my search !). So I don't think, removing or installing such
a tank is a major modification. The main reason, that most types, that uses
tiptanks are very rarely seen without, probbaly lies in the fact, that the extra
fuel in most cases is highly appreciated. And I read, that sometimes such tanks
even offer aerodynamic benefits, as they are acting as endplates.
 

dan_inbox

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[quote author=Jemiba]
I've two 3-views of the MS.760A Paris without tiptanks, but still yet no photoraphic
evidence, that it was ever flown without[/quote]
I do. See a photo of MS-760C1 Paris III in flight without tanks at
http://www.super-mystere.net/cf001/planche/pages/03.htm

(This site is a gold mine for aviation enthusiasts, Jean-Michel "super-mystère" being a retired professional avaiation photographer. Very nice fellow, too)
 

Jemiba

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Thanks for that link ! Had a look on this site before, but didn't bookmark it .. ::)
AFAIK the MS.760C had the same wing as the MS.760A/B, so removing the
tiptanks would have been possible there, too.
And at least the argentine Moranes did so, too.
(see http://www.patricksaviation.com/photos/pulqui/10552/"
 
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