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PAK DA ""Poslannik" program - Tupolev 'Izdeliye 80' bomber

Saber

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This whole "answer" discussion is a bit absurd, especially the idea of PAK-DA barely matching a 1980s bomber that had to be modified for low-level flight for better chance against Soviet IADS.

Besides, Russians have different strategic force set up and their own way of doing things especially when it comes to design priority. This statement does pose an interesting but unlikely suggestion that PAK-DA might perhaps be a supercruiser.

https://vpk.name/news/405588_pak_da_stanet_legche_bystree_i_malozametnee.html

We have very good developments, and on the basis of the UAC, which brought together the best designers and the best engineers who set the tone for the entire world aircraft industry, a new strategic bomber is being created, which will, in particular, be faster. Motor-building concerns are preparing an engine for him according to the latest developments, ”he told RIA Novosti.

Sytnik emphasized that modern technologies make it possible to use composite materials during construction, due to which aircraft become lighter and do not warm up so much at supersonic speeds.

Besides, all of these new strategic bombers are just warm-ups for future space-based strategic nuclear weapons. Note how B-21 is cheaper and smaller than B-2, or Russia's decision to reinstate an already produced supersonic strategic platform(Tu-160) and going with replacing Tu-95s with a structurally simpler and cheaper(in comparison with a supersonic bomber) flying wing stealth bomber.
 

Evgeniy

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Besides, Russians have different strategic force set up and their own way of doing things especially when it comes to design priority. This statement does pose an interesting but unlikely suggestion that PAK-DA might perhaps be a supercruiser.

Absolutely incredible. This is so, just chatter.
 

Evgeniy

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A bit of speculation.

Allegedly a simulator:
GosNIIAS_PAK_DA_2015.jpg


Taken from here:


And from there, here is a hypothetical image:

0166.jpg
 

FighterJock

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I like the look of the current design for the PAK-DA bomber, if this is indeed what the finished bomber will look like.
 
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Josh_TN

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That tale arrangement seems unlikely unless they are de-prioritizing all aspect RCS.
 

Evgeniy

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Sorry, but that's a joke!

So I write that this is speculation. I just haven’t seen this before.
The second gambler, this is apparently a "creative reflection" of that old model from the transmission of twenty years ago.
 

tequilashooter

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I hope the PAK-DA is at least the size of a B-2 because the Su-70 should already take the smaller role in bombing operations.

Испытания двигателя для перспективного ракетоносца ПАК ДА начнутся в 2021 году - Армия и ОПК - ТАСС (tass.ru)

Engine tests for promising missile carrier PAK DA will begin in 2021

According to Rostec, a number of engine components have already been tested, the production facilities of the enterprise have been prepared.

SAMARA, December 23. / TASS /. The assembly of the first engine for the promising long-range aviation complex (PAK DA) has begun; in 2021, the engine, called the RF Product, will be transferred to bench tests. This was announced to reporters by the Deputy General Director - Managing Director of UEC-Kuznetsov (part of the United Engine Corporation of the Rostec State Corporation) Alexei Sobolev.

"This year, the first engine" in iron "has been manufactured, [it] is being assembled. By the end of the year, the engine will be assembled to start bench tests. During 2021, the first promising engine will undergo bench tests in order to work out the parameters set in the terms of reference The Ministry of Defense, "he said, specifying that in 2021 a number of samples of a new promising product will be assembled.

Sobolev also clarified that a number of engine components have already been tested, and the production facilities of the enterprise have been prepared. “The product was already designed in digital form, which made it possible to promptly manufacture the first sample, which is currently being assembled”, he noted.

Источник: сразу несколько ПАК ДА собирают в России для летных и наземных испытаний - Армия и ОПК - ТАСС (tass.ru)


Source: several PAK DA are assembled in Russia for flight and ground tests at once

Two or three objects are already being launched into production, said an interlocutor in the military-industrial complex.

MOSCOW, December 24. / TASS /. Several prototypes of the promising strategic stealth missile carrier PAK DA (a promising long-range aviation complex) are being manufactured in Russia in parallel for flight and ground tests. A source in the military-industrial complex told TASS about this on Thursday.

"Two or three objects are already being launched [into production] - for" statics ", for flight [tests]," the interlocutor said, answering a question about the progress of work on the PAK DA.

TASS has not yet received an official comment from the United Aircraft Corporation on this matter.

The source clarified that the difference in the timing of the availability of vehicles will be only a few months. "They are already making according to design documentation [design documentation]. Part of the tooling, part of the first parts are made in full," added the agency's source.

The source did not name the exact timing of the completion of the final assembly of the first PAK DA, but confirmed that it will be carried out at the Kazan Aviation Plant. S.P. Gorbunova.

At the same time, the interlocutor confirmed the information that the cabin of the newest strategist is being assembled at the Novosibirsk aircraft plant named after V.P. Chkalov. "They will make several cabins there," the interlocutor said, specifying that some of the products are intended for testing ejection seats at the ground stand.
PAK DΑ

In December 2019, Deputy Defense Minister of Russia Alexei Krivoruchko in an interview with the Krasnaya Zvezda newspaper said that the preliminary design of the PAK DA aircraft had been approved and Tupolev PJSC had begun to develop working design documentation. In May, TASS sources in the military-industrial complex reported that the production of the first prototype of the new "strategist" had begun.

A promising long-range aviation complex is designed according to the "flying wing" scheme. In the design of the machine will be widely used technologies and materials that reduce visibility (technology "stealth"). The aircraft will be capable of carrying existing and future strategic cruise missiles, precision bombs, hypersonic weapons, and will be equipped with the latest communications and electronic warfare. The machine will receive a subsonic flight speed.


New made from scratch 2021 missiles to be ready for the Su-57, maybe a presentation of the bomber. Hope some good stuff is presented in the maks 2021 air show.
 

tequilashooter

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Might be major news, might not be major news but that depends how the source is interpreted.


MOSCOW, 24 Mar - RIA Novosti. The "stealth" bomber, which is being created in Russia, known as the Advanced Long Range Aviation Complex (PAK DA), will be able to overcome the front lines of NATO air defense unnoticed, a source in the military-industrial complex told RIA Novosti.

Such characteristics of the future aircraft were confirmed during bench tests, he said.

"Special layouts and individual full-size elements of the bomber being created underwent a series of bench tests to assess the level of radar signature. The ultra-low parameters of the effective scattering surface area (EPR) of PAK DA, calculated at the stage of research using computer modeling methods, have been confirmed," the agency's interlocutor said.

According to the source, the radius of detection of PAK DA by long-range radar patrol aircraft and on-board radars of fighters will decrease "by several orders of magnitude."

This will allow a promising bomber, when using certain tactics undetected, to overcome the advanced air defense lines, including fighter aircraft, including the advanced air defense lines of the most developed countries of the North Atlantic Alliance," the source said.

At the same time, he noted that the PAK DA will be able to perform most of the strike missions outside the air defense zone, using long-range precision weapons - promising cruise and hypersonic missiles.


I will see if I am interpreting this specific quote correctly, "the radius of detection of PAK DA by long-range radar patrol aircraft and on-board radars of fighters will decrease "by several orders of magnitude."

Radius of detection of pakda they must mean the radar to detect the bomber, So if I am using 3m2 as my target reference with a Su-35 would that mean 350(.0000003 times 3) ^.25 at this range I will detect it?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Order_of_magnitude "Differences in order of magnitude can be measured on a base-10 logarithmic scale in “decades” (i.e., factors of ten).[1] Examples of numbers of different magnitudes can be found at Orders of magnitude (numbers)."


Am I doing it right? Stating going undetected in the frontlines of NATO is quite a bold statement. I feel like cracking this joke now that we will be so stealthy to the point that we will fight WW2 style again. Russia better start making clones of Eric Hartmann and convince the clones they are Russian if they are going for a stealthier fighter version than previous generation. :p
 

In_A_Dream

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I would assume Russia would also be developing an advanced EA platform to help escort its bomber.
 

tequilashooter

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Another blah-blah from unknown source.
Come on you got to admit it though, whoever the hell wrote that article made it very convincing that even I believed it, because orders of magnitude seem to go with 10s being raised to the power of 1, 2, 3, 4, etc, or lowered to the power of those numbers and each 10 decibel being raised or lowered goes by 10s raised to the power and lowered to the power of 10 as well. I guess we will wait for official statements from any scientific, military figure or company representative if they will give the actual values.

source in the military-industrial complex is not convincing enough until a name or identity is revealed I suppose.
 

Acatomic

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Order of magnitude lower RCS against what?

Tu-95? Yes I would believe that.
 

Josh_TN

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I think if you even compare a B-1 RCS to that of a B-52 you have a couple orders of magnitude right there before you get into anything that would be described as low observable. I think we're just going to have to wait for PAK-DA to roll out before drawing any conclusions, and even then there will probably be an unhealthy amount of speculation.
 

tequilashooter

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Order of magnitude lower RCS against what?

Tu-95? Yes I would believe that.
Not saying that I am necessary convinced but if this is indeed BS, that is no mere journo writing that report. Such as me being 50/50 when tass stated an internal hypersonic missile for a su-57 in december 2018 by also stating "a military source" told them. Than few years later we now got a news report of a missile named gremlin which started development in November 2018 a month prior before the new missile announcement for the su-57. I just approach everything with an open mind only until its proven to exist later.

Also they like to use words like several or dozen, so I dont think they would literally mean move the decimal point 7 times to the left.
 
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GARGEAN

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I would assume Russia would also be developing an advanced EA platform to help escort its bomber.
Not really. Russia was never fond to dedicated EA-type platforms, mostly developing external sets for frontline bombers for that role (Su-24 and now 34 as examples)
 

In_A_Dream

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I would assume Russia would also be developing an advanced EA platform to help escort its bomber.
Not really. Russia was never fond to dedicated EA-type platforms, mostly developing external sets for frontline bombers for that role (Su-24 and now 34 as examples)
That may change with the evolution of their Loyal Wingman-esque program.
 

GARGEAN

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It may, but again I doubt dedicated airframe. More like all the same - kit for Ohotnik/Grom
 

Deino

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Josh_TN

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I’d be surprised if PAK-DA and H-20 didn’t end up looking like B-21s. There’s just too much to recommend that body shape for low RCS scaled to bomber sizes. A very large cranked kite is my second guess, but that opens up additional frontal angles of reflection.
 

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