North American F-86 Sabre - special variants and projects

Deltafan

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Hi !

For some days i have seen a little article (i don't remember where :-\ , maybe in the french Air & Cosmos Magazine) about a supersonic F-86. It was a modified canadian F-86 with a mightier Orenda engine and a modified fuselage. But the prototype failed to achieve expected performances and this plane ended as a QF-86 target.

A forum's member knows something about this plane ?
 

Just call me Ray

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I'm guessing it's the XF-93 (or at least similiar to it)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_American_YF-93
 

Rickshaw

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The CAC Sabre which had an Avon engine was transonic. Does that count?
 

Antonio

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I'm guessing it's the XF-93 (or at least similiar to it)

The XF-93 was a different beast and neither a supersonic design.

Studies at North American for a supersonic Sabre existed under designation "Sabre 45". The idea, from 1949, was to replace the 35º wing with a new 45º one coupled with a more powerful engine then in development (P&W J57). An all weather configuration was offered to USAF but the military requested a daytime version. The final configuration led to the F-100 Super Sabre.

I have nothing about this Orenda Sabre but I'll keep on searching
 

LowObservable

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YF-93 thrust/weight ratio 0.36:1.... Gulfstream V 0.4:1... and by the way the YF-93 number is WITH burner!

Arf! Arf!
 
J

joncarrfarrelly

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Canadair CL-13E, Sabre Mk.5 23021, c/n 811, NAE research aircraft, MAS FS(N1049D) crashed White Sands 1/2/80.

Pics from 'The Canadair Sabre', Larry Milberry, CANAV 1986

Cheers, Jon
 

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Orionblamblam

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Original, North American F-86, Wind Tunnel Test Model

[link no longer active]
 

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Steve Pace

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Orionblamblam said:
Original, North American F-86, Wind Tunnel Test Model
http://cgi.ebay.com/Original-North-American-F-86-Wind-Tunnel-Test-Model_W0QQitemZ320568707479QQcategoryZ86954QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp4340.m8QQ_trkparmsZalgo%3DMW%26its%3DC%26itu%3DUCC%26otn%3D5%26ps%3D63%26clkid%3D6637177726201426368
I do believe it to be the pre F-100 known as the Sabre 45... SP
 

aim9xray

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The fuselage looks like a missing link: the Advanced Sabre or Sabre 45 perhaps. The wings, however are F-100D/F wings. The model also has the original horizontal stabilator, as well.
 

Pioneer

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G'day gents

I am once again going through my loved copy of Tony Buttler's American Secret Projects Fighters & Interceptors 1945-1978

In it is some great pictures of manufacturers models of the North American Aviation 'Advanced F-86' & 'Sabre 45' projects? (page 50 & 51) - the pre F-100 Super Sabre!

Does anyone have any profile / 3-view drawings and performance specifications of either of these designs?

Your assistance will be greatly appriciated

Regards
Pioneer
 

Pioneer

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Sorry here are some photos from American Secret Projects Fighters & Interceptors 1945-1978 of models of the 'Advanced F-86 Day Fighter' (left) (by Jonathan Rigutto) and the 'Sabre 45 Air Superiority Fighter' (right) (by Jonathan Rigutto)

Regards
Pioneer
 

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Pioneer

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Just a friendly nudge to see if anyone has more information and profile drawings etc..... ;D


Regards
Pioneer
 

Spook

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Also there was a modified F-86 to test F-103 Periscope concept... the pictures had been already posted in another topic.. Does that get counted?
 

Arjen

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Ardavan.K said:
Also there was a modified F-86 to test F-103 Periscope concept... the pictures had been already posted in another topic.. Does that get counted?
I think you're referring to this modified Republic F-84G.
 

Stargazer2006

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Several of us have pondered over the years what the "F2J" might have been, even on this very forum, but here is a January 29, 1951 article from Aviation Week which clearly states the U.S. Navy's plans to procure the F-86D as... the F2J.
 

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Pioneer

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Several of us have pondered over the years what the "F2J" might have been, even on this very forum, but here is a January 29, 1951 article from Aviation Week which clearly states the U.S. Navy's plans to procure the F-86D as... the F2J.
So what came of the USN /F2J/F-86D derivative??

Regards
Pioneer
 

Pioneer

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On the topic of an all-weather F2J/F-86D, I'm just wondering if anyone is aware of whether NAA studied a traditional two-seat all-weather interceptor derivative of its F-86 Sabre design, before it derived the then highly technical F-86D single-seat all-weather interceptor?


Regards
Pioneer
 

riggerrob

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On a related note (but not quite an "F-86 variant" as such):
Bubimat looks like it was designed to melt ice on runways.
The RCAF experimented with a similar system for de-icing their F-86 Sabres before take-off. They parked a pair of Sabres tail-to-tail with the gap slightly wider than the wingspan. They started both engines, then taxied a third Sabre between them.
 

Grey Havoc

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On the topic of an all-weather F2J/F-86D, I'm just wondering if anyone is aware of whether NAA studied a traditional two-seat all-weather interceptor derivative of its F-86 Sabre design, before it derived the then highly technical F-86D single-seat all-weather interceptor?


Regards
Pioneer
I think they did indeed, but I can't remember any details at the moment, sorry.
 

Pioneer

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On the topic of an all-weather F2J/F-86D, I'm just wondering if anyone is aware of whether NAA studied a traditional two-seat all-weather interceptor derivative of its F-86 Sabre design, before it derived the then highly technical F-86D single-seat all-weather interceptor?


Regards
Pioneer
I think they did indeed, but I can't remember any details at the moment, sorry.
Thanks for your response just the same Grey Havoc

Regards
Pioneer
 

T. A. Gardner

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Several of us have pondered over the years what the "F2J" might have been, even on this very forum, but here is a January 29, 1951 article from Aviation Week which clearly states the U.S. Navy's plans to procure the F-86D as... the F2J.
So what came of the USN /F2J/F-86D derivative??

Regards
Pioneer
The FJ Fury series was the USN's development of a F-86 derivative that started with the original XF-86 "Jet Mustang." NAA and the USAF abandoned it shortly after WW 2 ended, but the USN continued development for a strike fighter.

1617240531881.png

The USN then decided to go with a variant of the F-86E as the FJ-2. This designation was because Congress was not approving new designs but was giving massive funding to upgrade existing ones. Otherwise, the FJ-2 would have become the F2J a totally new aircraft.

Anyway, the F-86E as the NA-179, 181, 185 (variously) was modified to take 4 20mm Colt Oerlikon copies from WW 2 as they were intended mostly for ground support. The plane had all the usual navalization and included a longer nose wheel to increase the angle of attack on take off.

The FJ-3 was a much more modified F-86 and was no longer really compatible with the USAF version.

The final FJ-4 (AF-1E) was a completely different machine that had no relationship to the F-86 series other than a vague resemblance.
 

ggova

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Hi all,
Here is another model of a NAA F-86 Advanced Day Fighter in 1/30th scale that came up for sale last week.
Also attached a close-up photo of the nose section.....
Hope you enjoy.
 

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Petrus

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On the topic of an all-weather F2J/F-86D, I'm just wondering if anyone is aware of whether NAA studied a traditional two-seat all-weather interceptor derivative of its F-86 Sabre design, before it derived the then highly technical F-86D single-seat all-weather interceptor?


Regards
Pioneer
I think they did indeed, but I can't remember any details at the moment, sorry.
If my memory serves me well, an all-weather F-86 variant for NATO countries, which eventually became F-86K, initially was to be a two-seater. Such was a requirement of the countries in question. Then it turned out that the radar operator was not necessary, so F-86K remained single-seater.
Piotr
 

Pioneer

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On the topic of an all-weather F2J/F-86D, I'm just wondering if anyone is aware of whether NAA studied a traditional two-seat all-weather interceptor derivative of its F-86 Sabre design, before it derived the then highly technical F-86D single-seat all-weather interceptor?


Regards
Pioneer
I think they did indeed, but I can't remember any details at the moment, sorry.
If my memory serves me well, an all-weather F-86 variant for NATO countries, which eventually became F-86K, initially was to be a two-seater. Such was a requirement of the countries in question. Then it turned out that the radar operator was not necessary, so F-86K remained single-seater.
Piotr
Thank you for your replies Grey Havoc & Petrus

Regards
Pioneer
 

Apophenia

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Canadair CL-13E, Sabre Mk.5 23021, c/n 811, NAE research aircraft, MAS FS(N1049D) crashed White Sands 1/2/80.

Pics from 'The Canadair Sabre', Larry Milberry, CANAV 1986

Cheers, Jon
Area rule?

Yes.

From CASM's Canadair CL-13B / F-86 Sabre Mk 6 RCAF Golden Hawks Serial 23651, Bill Upton, page 9:

"Two Canadair Sabre aircraft were modified under the auspices of the Uplands-based CEPE [Central Experimental and Proving Establishment] and the NAE [National Aeronautical Establishment, Ottawa] for research and test purposes of thrust augmentation and aerodynamics improvements. The first modification went to former RCAF Sabre Mk 5 [RCAF] serial 23021 [c/n 811]. From May to July 1955, Canadair heavily modified the exterior contours of this aircraft with sonic drag reducing fairings made out of wood and aluminum, to produce Richard Whitcomb’s area-rule or “Coke-bottle” shape. Now designated the CL-13E, numerous flight tests were performed by the NAE in 1956 without showing any major performance improvements. ..."
 

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