Newark Air Museum RCS models on display - P.1216 and McDonnell/BAe ASTOVL entry

CJGibson

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Visited Newark Air Museum today. Saw and snapped the P.1216 radar cross-section test model (see attached) but what is the canted-fin job next to it? The fins have rounded tips and it lacks tailplanes. Only had my phone with me, so 'scuse the pics.

KB
 

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TinWing

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Re: Newark Air Museum RCS models on display - P.1216 and McDonnell/BAe ASTOVL

Kelly Bushings said:
.....but what is the canted-fin job next to it? The fins have rounded tips and it lacks tailplanes. Only had my phone with me, so 'scuse the pics.

The tailplane arrangement resembles Replica, or even the failed MD-NG JSF competior.

However, this is a single engine design, unlike Replica or the 1995 FOAS design study.

In addition, the wing planform doesn't resemble the MD-NG JSF.

This appears to be a model of a JSF size aircraft, much smaller than Replica, although I might be wrong about even that.

Very odd.
 

flateric

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Re: Newark Air Museum RCS models on display - P.1216 and McDonnell/BAe ASTOVL

McDonnell and Northrop design roots are obvious - remember that before 'final' MDa-BAe-NG JAST submission were plenty of the others designs, WT-tested at UK. Think this one is ca. late 1993 - MDC 1993 MFVT (mixed flow vectored thrust) ASTOVL.

Kelly, great find, thanks!
 

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Mike Pryce

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Re: Newark Air Museum RCS models on display - P.1216 and McDonnell/BAe ASTOVL

This is McDonnell Douglas's entry for the UK/US ASTOVL studies of 1986-1988, using 'mixed flow vectored thrust', also known as 'cactus', propulsion. Seems to be 'semi-stealth', which would explain the RCS model.

A picture of it is already on the site, in the US V/STOL thread, mis-identified as a Lockheed design:

http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2140.0;attach=1956

This model and the P.1216 one seem to have come from the Thales (former EMI) test range at Wells in Somerset, where the 1216 at least was tested in the mid-1980s.
 

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overscan (PaulMM)

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Re: Newark Air Museum RCS models on display - P.1216 and McDonnell/BAe ASTOVL

BAe ASTOVL from 1991 AIAA paper 91-3183. Similar layout but with 4 tails not 2, a bit less stealthy.
 

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Mike Pryce

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Re: Newark Air Museum RCS models on display - P.1216 and McDonnell/BAe ASTOVL

This ASTOVL was intended to use RULS - RALS without the front burner - as mentioned on the 'what happened to RALS?' thread.

Overscan - this thread is now moving off topic - maybe move this post into one of the STOVL ones? And how about a V/STOL section - it is a popular topic.
 

flateric

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I was disguided by AIAA paper issue year...at least some of my guesses vere right and seems another piece of the ASTOVL/MRF/JAST puzzle are settled in its place))) Artist's impression of this concept that Harrier pointed out at first have appeared in AWST ca. 1990 (have this issue but lazy to look now).
 

Mike Pryce

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Note that the model at Newark is of a McDonnell Douglas only concept - BAe were 'in competition' with this and offered the P.112/P.116 etc. that are already on the site in other threads.
 

flateric

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Found by Hesham - aircraft reffered in NASA Ames SimLab 1993 Annual Report as The Mixed Flow Vectored Thrust (MFVT) Short Take-Off and Vertical Landing (STOVL) concept study
http://www.iasa.com.au/folders/Publications/pdf_library/ospreypdfs/ar93.pdf
 

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Triton

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Additional photographs of the McDonnell Douglas Mixed Flow Vectored Thrust (MFVT) Short Take-Off and Vertical Landing (STOVL) radar cross-section test model located at the Newark Air Museum. Identified as a wind tunnel model at the museum.
 

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Triton

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Additional photographs of the Hawker Siddeley P.1216 radar cross-section test model located at the Newark Air Museum. Identified as a wind tunnel model at the museum.
 

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Machdiamond

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Since we can see trip strips on some of the models, I suspect these are wind tunnel models indeed and have nothing to do with radar cross section testing. So they are properly identified as such by the museum.
 

Sundog

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The version of the P.1216 I recall seeing is the version with the chin/ventral inlet. I suppose the upcoming book on the subject will answer this question for me, but was the chin inlet version the proposed production version or is it the version shown in the model pics here with the bifurcated pitot inlets? Nice pics btw. ;D
 

circle-5

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Machdiamond said:
Since we can see trip strips on some of the models, I suspect these are wind tunnel models indeed and have nothing to do with radar cross section testing. So they are properly identified as such by the museum.

I would normally agree, but how do you explain the plugged intakes on the MDD MFVT STOVL model, or the silver alloy leaf coating (with its unmistakable Champagne gold tint) typically found only on RCS models? Without the benefit of a direct observation, I'd put my money on radar cross section testing hardware.
 

overscan (PaulMM)

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This model and the P.1216 one seem to have come from the Thales (former EMI) test range at Wells in Somerset, where the 1216 at least was tested in the mid-1980s.

From earlier in the topic posted by Mike Pryce.
 

Machdiamond

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Intakes are sometimes plugged on wind tunnel models, however on closer inspection I see there are no flight control surfaces which is rather unusual.
I have to agree now, these are probably RCS models.
The trip strips might have been installed to confuse accidental observers on the purpose of the models.
 

Mike Pryce

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Newark have painted their 1216 model:

http://www.newarkairmuseum.org/newsItem.php?id=367

10.03.11_NAM_P1216-lres.jpg


I've e-mailed them to point out the original would probably have had the remains of gold leaf on it.... :eek: and to correct some errors on the webpage above.

They say they have an alternative, presumably single intake, front fuselage. The paint job covers over the canopy/LERX 'bodge' required to get the twin intakes to fit - this config was for comparative test only.
 

overscan (PaulMM)

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I don't really agree with that, personally I think it should have been left as was.
 

Mike Pryce

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I've been in touch, and they responded. It seems they did not know that they have the UK's only museum exhibits of stealth technology!

However, to quote Yoda, 'there is another' (attached), and this was the key bit of test kit - cockpit, radar bay and intake being the main source of radar returns. I've asked them not to paint it!

Shame I didn't have this pic for the book - Newark just sent it to me.
 

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uk 75

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Although most of the readers of Mike's book are probably modelmakers or at least know
modelmakers there may be some of you, who like me, are not much cop with their hands.

If you want a model of the P1216, which is in the style of the models used by Aircraft
manufacturers as giveaways, and don't mind it not being too accurate I can recommend
this Philippine made wooden desk model in about 1/72 scale.

The firm are very helpful and will paint the model in any scheme you want. They may charge
a bit more for this, depending on the complexity.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/P-1216-Hawker-P1216-Airplane-Wood-Model-Free-Ship-New-/120044179256?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1bf330cf38

No, I have no commercial interest in the outfit, but they have been willing to do the odd custom model for me.
 

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