Nevesbu's projects

Sanglune

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Hello,

I'm looking for warships designed by Nevesbu (B.V. Nederlandse Verenigde Scheepsbouw Bureaus). Specifically for surface vessels, though I don't want to discourage discussion around their submersibles.

So far I'm aware of a couple of designs:

Project 1047 (files attached, source: Klaas Meijer's Twitter)
1865 ton frigate (Jane's 1961 and 1962) (files attached)
1420 ton frigate (Jane's 1968) (files attached)
Possible carrier for venezuela? (according to Warshipsresearch )
Submarine chasers for cuba? (according to Warshipsresearch )
Possible cruisers for venezuela? (according to Warshipsresearch )

Also references to a Dutch 8" cruiser for Chile, as well as 6" 8000 ton 32 kt cruiser (British Cruisers Two World Wars and After, N. Friedman, pg. 226-228)

Does anyone have any more info and potentially drawings?
 

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cattalonX

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there are another cruisers for venezuela by Netherlands? I'm curious·······
 
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Sanglune

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So I went and logged all the n.v.s.b stuff over time:

“Order nrs and Assignment (opdracht) nrs”
Opdracht 1071 - Min. Marine [1 p189]
Opdracht 1073 - Min. Marine [1 p168] [3 p189] 3 harbor escorts, ventilation, [4 p196] order, [2 p173]
Opdracht 1074 - Min. Marine [1 p189] 2 steam harbor escorts, ventilation [2 p196]
Opdracht 1075 - Min. Marine [1] [2 p77] [5 p112] [10 p168] [12 p189] 5 harbor escorts, ventilation [3 p85] [4 p103] [7 p128] [8 p146] [12 p196] Order [6 p119] [9 p152] [11 p173]
Opdracht 1076 - Min. Marine [1 p189] 1 mist-acid (smokegenerator fluid) ship, ventilation [2 p196]
Order 1077 - WF, RDM, Kruiser De Ruyter & DZP [1] [2 p94] [3 p121] [4 p175] [5 p 198]
Opdracht 1077 - Cruisers DZP and De Ruyter [1] [2 p85] [3 p103] [4 p128] [5 p154]
Opdracht 1078 - NDSM [1 p189] drawing blockmodel Tromp, national air lab and construction drawings [2 p196]
Opdracht 1080 - Min. Marine, [2 p112] [3 p168] [5 p189] revisiondrawings Tromp [1 p103] [4 p173] [5 p196]
Opdracht 1082 - Min. Marine [1 p189] torpedolaunch installation [2 p196]
Opdracht 1083 - RDM [1 p189] ventilation Van Kinsbergen [2 p196]
Opdracht 1088 - Min. Marine [1 p189]
Opdracht 1089 - Min. Marine [1 p189]
Opdracht 1090 - Min. Marine, drawing 2x opnemingsvaartuigen [1] [3 p189] [4 p196] [5 p204] order [2 p119]
Order 1091 - KMS, RDM, WF, OzbJager 1947 A [1] [2] [3 p94] [4 p175] [5 p 198]
Opdracht 1091 - DS, WF, RDM, drawing work for 4 Subchasers 1947 [1] [2 p65] [3 p80] [4 p85] [5 p103] [6 p121] [7 p128] [8 p154] [9 p204]
Opdracht 1092 - DS, [2 p168] [3 p189] changes ventilation Piet Hein [1] [4 p196] [5 p204]
Order 1093 - WF, leasing drawers [1 p173]
Opdracht 1094 - NDSM, [2 p168] [4 p189] revision drawing work for Tromp and preparing ‘devies’ [1] order [3 p173] [5 p204]
Opdracht 1096 - NDSM, [2 p189] lending drawers for Marnix [1] [3 p196] [4 p204]
Opdracht 1097 - NDSM, [2 p168] [4 p189] drawing piping Marnix [1] order [3p173] [5 p196] [6 p204]
Opdracht 1098 - Rijkswerf, (Min. Marine [3 p189] ) design and work drawings radarmast O 27 [1] order [2 p173] [4 p196] [5 p204]
Opdracht 1099 - RDM, [3 p168] drawingwork repair Zwaardvis [1 p103] [2 p162] order [4 p173]
Order 1100 - NDSM, WF, RDM, KMS, OzbJagers 1947 B / 1949 [1] [2] [3 p94] [4 p175]
Opdracht 1100 - NDSM, DS, RDM, WF, [2 p80] 8 OzbJagers 1947 B / 1949 [1 p65] [2 p85] [3 p103] [4 p121] [5 p128] [6 p154] [7 p162]
Opdracht 1101 - Min. Marine, [2 p168] leasing drawer 6 weeks [1 p162] order [3 p173]
Opdracht 1102 - WF [1 p77] [4 p146] [7 p168] Asdicdom [2 p85] [3 p128] [6 p162] Order [5 p152] [8 p173]
Opdracht 1103 - WF, [2 p113] [5 p146] [7 p168] drawingwork asdicdom [1 p103] [4 p128] [7 p162] Order [3 p119] movement mechanism [6 p152] [8 p173]
Opdracht 1104 - Swiss Navy, delivery drawings hydraulic installation on board subs [1 p162] order [2 p173]
Opdracht 1105 - RDM, [2 p112] [7 p168] drawingwork pressuretank and models subs [1 p103] [4 p128] [5 p146] [6 p162] Oder [3 p119] [8 p173]
Opdracht 1106 - WF, [2 p146] [4 p168] snorkel subs 1949 [1 p103] Order [3 p152] [5 p173]
Opdracht 1107 - RDM, [2 p112] workdrawings model 8-shape submarine [1 p103] [4 p128] [5 p146] scalemodel, order [3 p119] [6 p152]
Opdracht 1108 - RDM ventilation Machine Room and Boiler Room OzbJagers 1947 A [1 p65] [2 p85] [3 p103] [4 p121] [5 p128]
Opdracht 1109 - DS ventilation Machine Room OzbJagers 1947 B [1 p65] [2 p85] [3 p121]
Order 1110 - RDM, Submarine Dolfijn-class [1] [2] RDM, WF, subs 1949 [3 p94]
Opdracht 1110 - RDM [1 p80] 4 3-cyl Ozb [1 p65] [3 p103] [4 p121] [5 p128] [6 p154]
Opdracht 1111 - Min. Marine, [2 p146] adjustment asdic Tijgerhaai [1 p128] order [3 p152]
Opdracht 1112 - WF, [2 p113] [5 p146] implementation asdic Marnix [1 p103] [4 p128] dato-installation, order [3 p119] [6 p152]
Opdracht 1114 - RDM, [3 p112] updating revisiondrawings Van Kinsbergen [1 p85] [2 p103] order [4 p119]
Opdracht 1115 - WF [1 p77] [4 p113] SBD numberplans Karel Doorman [2 p85] [3 p103] Order [5 p119]
Opdracht 1117 - RDM, [3 p112] testhatch O. 27 [1 p85] [2 p103] Order [4 p119]
Opdracht 1118 - RDM, inner outer chimney OzbJgrs 1947 A [1 p65] [2 p85] Order [3 p119]
Opdracht 1119 - Min. Marine [1] [2 p77] [5 p112] Submarine marker buoy [3 p85] (design drawing) [4 p103]
Opdracht 1120 - RDM [1 p112] workdrawings snorkelhead, order [2 p119]
Opdracht 1122 - WF, drawingwork leakmodel kruisers [1 p65]
Opdracht 1124 - WF [1 p113], reperations O 21, order [2 p119]
Opdracht 1125 - Min. Marine [1] [3 p77] drawings detection devices subs 1949 [2] [4 p85]
Opdracht 1126 - WF [1] Schema SBD centrals SBD cruisers [2] [3 p77] [4 p85]
Opdracht 1127 - WF updating 43 piping diagrams cruisers [1 p65] [2 p85]
Opdracht 1128 - WF controlpanels valves cruisers [1 p65] [2 p85]
Order 1129 - WF, Refit Karel Doorman [1] Min. v. Marine [2]
Opdracht 1129 - Min. Marine refit Karel Doorman [1 p85]
Opdracht 1129 I - Min. Marine [1] Design refit Karel Doorman [2] [3 p77]
Opdracht 1129 II - Min. Marine [1] Construction drawings refit Karel Doorman [2]
Opdracht 1130 - Patrolboat Ned. Marine. 1952 (cancelled) [1 p91]
Opdracht 1131 - DS, inner outer chimney OzbJgrs 1947 B / 49 [1 p65]
Opdracht 1132 - WF, assistance trial ventilation De Ruyter [1]
Opdracht 1133 - WF, carenediagram, levelscales, pipingiagrams cruisers [1 p65]
Opdracht 1134 - RDM, assistance ventilation trials [1 p67]
Opdracht 1135 - RDM, attachment nameplates cruiser [1 p67]
Opdracht 1137 - Int Aquqvion, drawingwork wirewingboats [1 p67]
Opdracht 1138 - WF [1] assistance seatrial cruiser [2]
Opdracht 1139 - RDM assistance seatrial cruiser [1 p67]
Opdracht 1140 - Min.Marine, revisiondrawings cruisers for aboard [1 p67]
Order 1141 - Min. van Marine, Refit Karel Doorman [1]
Opdracht 1141 - WF [1] loaning-out drawer Karel Doorman [2]
Order 1142 - Danish Navy, Project 3-cyl sub 660ton [1]
Opdracht 1142 - Danish Navy, design 3-cyl submarine [1 p67]
Order 1143 - NDSM, WF, RDM, KMS, OzbJagers 1947 B / 1949 [1]
Opdracht 1143 - Min. Marine, strength computations OzbJagers 47 B / 49 [1 p67]
Order 1144 - Werkspoor, KMS, Torpedo Tubes Yugoslavia [1]
Opdracht 1145 - Min. Marine [1] SBD booklets Karel Doorman [2]
Opdracht 1146 - DS, drawing work OzbJagers 1947 [1 p67]
Opdracht 1147 - DS, leakcomputations cruisers [1 p67]
Opdracht 1148 - WF, leakcomputations cruisers [1 p67]
Opdracht 1149 - WF, S.B.D. schema booklets cruisers [1 p67]
Opdracht 1150 - WF, schemata varied plates cruisers [1 p67]
Opdracht 1151 - Min. Marine, revision drawingwork cruisers [1 p67]
Order 1152 - KMS, RDM, WF, OzbJager 1947 A [1]
Opdracht 1152 - DS, revision drawings OzbJager 1947 A for onboard [1 p67]
Order 1157 - NDSM, WF, RDM, KMS, OzbJagers 1947 B / 1949 [1]
Order 1158 - International Aquavion [1]
Order 1161 - RDM, Submarine Dolfijn-class [1]
Order 1169 - NDSM, WF, RDM, KMS, OzbJagers 1947 B / 1949 [1]
Order 1170 - NDSM, WF, RDM, KMS, OzbJagers 1947 B / 1949 [1]
Order 1172 - International Aquavion [1]
Order 1186 - NDSM, WF, RDM, KMS, OzbJagers 1947 B / 1949 [1]
Order 1188 - NDSM, WF, RDM, KMS, OzbJagers 1947 B / 1949 [1]
Order 1189 - NDSM, WF, RDM, KMS, OzbJagers 1947 B / 1949 [1]
Order 1190 - NDSM, WF, RDM, KMS, OzbJagers 1947 B / 1949 [1]
Order 1191 - NDSM, WF, RDM, KMS, OzbJagers 1947 B / 1949 [1]
Order 1194 - International Aquavion [1]
Order 1195 - RDM, loaning-out drawers [1]
Order 1196 - RDM, superstructure tanker [1]
Order 1197 - NDSM, superstructure freighter [1]

“Project nrs”
Project 2061 - Argentina+, multihull sub [1] [bp-spf2] 1800t [bp-za3] [4] [5] [6]
Project 2063 - 1125t attack sub[bp-spf1]
Project 2066 - Netherlands - 3-cyl sub 1880t std [1] [2]
Project 2067 - Netherlands - 3-cyl sub [1] 1880t std [2] has sub 2067A [3]
Project 2068 - Netherlands - 3-cyl sub 1450t std [1] [2]
Project 2070 - common work foreign acquisition [1] [2]
Project 2071 - Sweden - 3-cyl sub [1]
Project 2072 - Venezuela - 1-cyl sub 843t std [1]
Project 2073 - Venezuela - 3 diesel launches [1]
Project 2075 - Netherlands - Onderzeeboot 1949 (1950) [1] 900t [2] [3] [bp-za4]
Project 2076 - Netherlands - 3-cyl 950t std Onderzeeboot 1949 (1951) [1] [2] [3]
Project 2077 - Sweden - 3-cyl submarine [1] [2] [3]
Project 2078 - France - 3-cyl comparison with Aurore [1] [2] [3]
Project 2080 - Argentina - 3-cyl 900t [1] [2] 950t std [3]
Project 2081 - Argentina - 3-cyls 940 to 950t [1] 950t std [2]
Project 2082 - ?? [1 p68]
Project 2083 - Brasil - 2630t destroyer, aquarel sent [1] [2] [3]
Project 2085 - Brasil - (5000t?) [3] cruiser [1] [2]
Project 2086 - Brasil - 900t submarine [1] [2] ±1000t [blueprint-zeeuwsarchief3]
Project 2087 - Spain - 3-cyl sub [1] [2]
Project 2088 - Argentina - floating dock [1]
Project 2089 - Venezuela - 1000t destroyer [1] subchaser [2]
Project 2090 - Greece - acquisition [1]
Project 2091 - Israel - 1100t destroyer [1] acquisition [2]
Project 2092 - Argentina - 3-cyl Project 1952 1000t [1]
Project 2093 - NATO - DE program [1]
Project 2094 - Ethiopia - acquisition [1]
Project 2138 - Netherlands - “Albacore” 1625t [aa-stats1]
Project 2180A - compact frigate 650t [1]
Project 2181 - South Africa - 3-cyl sub [1]

No nr.
Israel - 1-cyl 350t design [1]

Verslag 1957:
Israel - one-cylinder 350t submarine
Argentina - 1150t tri-cylinder discussion cancelled
Iran - requested 700t coastal defender and 130t idem. There was no interest for the latter.
Norway - requested a 850t submarine

Verslag 1953:
Project 2089 - Venezuela - 1000t destroyer
Project 2091 - Israel - 1100t destroyer

Verslag 1952:
Brasil - 2630t DD Pr. 2083 (aquarel sent); 900t SS Pr. 2086; 5000t CL (2085?)
Pakistan - offered 2 B-destroyers. requested 2 Dutch subs. sent on request armament specs B-destroyers.
Sweden - 1951 requested pr. 2077 3-cyl sub

Verslag 1951:
Project 2077 - Sweden - Prelim 3-cyl sub
Project 2078 - France - Prelim 3-cyl sub

Verslag 1950:
Argentina - 1-cyl sub 843t (2072?)
Sweden - sent a 3-cyl sub 725t
Verslag 1949:
Sweden - sent a 3-cyl sub 750t

Verslag 1948:
Argentina - sent Pr. 2061 multihull sub

Information on an 'Albacore' sub from A'dam archive[1]:

Blueprint design 2086 Zeeuws Archive (25% scale) [1]:

Blueprint design 2075 Zeeuws Archive (25% scale) [1]:

Blueprint design 2063 shipbucket thread [1]:

Blueprint design 2061 Zeeuws Archive (25% scale) [1], [2], shipbucket thread [3]:

Furthermore, I created a manuscript containing most the information I found on Dutch ships, which I've attatched. Although not exactly related to Nevesbu, I found it a bit awkward to create a separate thread for it.
 

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Petrus

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Do you have any further info (dimensions, armament, blueprints etc.) on Projects:
2083 (2630t destroyer for Brasil),
2089 (1000t destroyer for Venezuela), 2091 (1100t destroyer for Israel)?
 

Sanglune

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Do you have any further info (dimensions, armament, blueprints etc.) on Projects:
2083 (2630t destroyer for Brasil),
2089 (1000t destroyer for Venezuela), 2091 (1100t destroyer for Israel)?

Unfortunately, I have no info on the physical parameters of the projected ships. I do have some more meta info from the sources.

Project 2083 comes from a design that was first offered between 12 to 30 june 1952, when Wotljer and Gunnig from NVSB and Salm from Signaal visited Janér as well as visit the minister of the navy. A quick redesign of a 2630t destroyer was offered. In August the project was further developed and information sent, along with an aquarel.

Project 2089 seems to have been short lived, being a request originally for the Trubine and Boiler Company (TKT) in Amsterdam.

Project 2091 comes from a request by Capt. Kenan, Assistant Naval Attaché for an escort vessel. On the 4th of Jan. 1954 the design was sent and Kenan replied in February that soon a reply to the offer would be sent.
 

ptdockyard

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I remember reading in 2017 about a possible preliminary to the 1047 battlecruisers that was smaller with 9-240mm guns but with a top speed of only 29-30kts. I was not proceeded with due to the speed. The WOWs gang looks like they took a shot at this in one of their ships but my reading was long before that and it was a real design study. Does anyone have anything further?
 

cattalonX

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I remember reading in 2017 about a possible preliminary to the 1047 battlecruisers that was smaller with 9-240mm guns but with a top speed of only 29-30kts. I was not proceeded with due to the speed. The WOWs gang looks like they took a shot at this in one of their ships but my reading was long before that and it was a real design study. Does anyone have anything further?

Design Work of the Royal Netherlands Navy
Although in autumn 1939 design work was well underway, and cooperation with Germany seemed reasonably assured, some reluctance on their part was still in evidence. Accordingly, Admiral Vos (Chief of the Materiel Department of the Navy) recommended strongly in a letter on 6 December 1939 to the new Navy Minister that the plans for the construction of the battlecruisers be brought before Parliament before Christmas 1939. However, the Navy Minister had not yet made up his mind as to exactly what type of vessel needed to be constructed. He apparently favored a 16.000 ton ship of the armored cruiser type. During December 1939, the Naval Construction Department considered the possibilities of such a ship and came to the comparison presented in Table 5.

Table 5 - 16,000 Ton Project Armament & Protection Comparison
Displacement16.000 tons Washington
Speed:33 kts. in tropical waters.
ArmamentProtection
BeltDeckTurretTorpedo bulkhead
Three triple 28cm100 mm40 and 5010025
Three twin 28cm12050 and 6012030
Three triple 24cm1206012030
Three twin 24cm1406515030

It was noted that if the armor protection proposed for the 27.000 ton project were to be worked into a 16.000 design, no armament could be fitted. Also, it was considered that the plans for the former could be completed in 5 to 5,5 months, while if the Navy had to revert to a 16.000 ton design, a delay of 6 months was expected. A memorandum was drawn up on 11 December 1939 in which it was stated that on a 16.000 ton displacement, a design could be prepared with characteristics shown in Table 6.

Table 6 - 16.000 Ton Armored Cruiser
Displacement16,000 tons Washington
Dimensionsca. 200 x 25 x 12 x 6,75 meters.
Armament3 triple 24cm
4 twin 12cm
8 twin 40mm
several smaller guns
Protection
Belt175mm
Deck75mm
Turrets200mm (24cm) and 60mm (12cm)
Torpedo bulkheads30mm
Propulsion
SHP90.000
Speed29 kts. (28 kts. in tropical waters)
Weight1750 tons
Note: Unfortunately, no sketch drawing (or any reference thereto) has been found.

It was appreciated that this vessel would be superior to a 20cm 10.000 ton cruiser, but had the important weakness that it could not avoid action with stronger opponents due to inferior speed. The protection also was felt to be insufficient. Consequently, the Navy strongly recommended against the construction of such a ship and nothing more was heard about the project.
 

MihoshiK

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Sanglune

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I remember reading in 2017 about a possible preliminary to the 1047 battlecruisers that was smaller with 9-240mm guns but with a top speed of only 29-30kts. I was not proceeded with due to the speed. The WOWs gang looks like they took a shot at this in one of their ships but my reading was long before that and it was a real design study. Does anyone have anything further?

The 16.000 ton cruisers were not a preliminary per se, but more of an alternative offered from Batavia (mostly Ferwerda). Indonesia still desired an expansion of destroyers and submarines. And wondered if the 28.000t battlecruisers would impact this. Thus offered the 16.000ters as alternative which would be much cheaper, possibly faster to build, made a transition to larger ships easier and wouldn't necessitate a large shift in base infrastructure. Whilst still being functionally similar in role and function.

Ferwerda didn't seem to be entirely against the battlecruisers, but prefered a much more gradual approach and to expand the 'surroundings' (not sure how to translate "omlijsting").

Ultimately, The Haguish group was too far with the 28.000t and Ferwerda's own health was failing so the battlecruisers were pushed forward. Only the basic computations from the Warship article (see the comment between us) were found.

As for World of Warships, It is possible that Wargaming took some inspiration from those when they made up their supercruisers, but they insisted they were based on the larger project 1047 instead so that can't be too right. Regardless, don't trust Wargaming with their made up ships. There's just too much wrong with those.
 

Hood

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So.... Amsterdam Archives decided to pull a funny and uploaded their scans <15m after I posted the list.

[A'dam archives 30300 - 256, 'Albacore' submarine pr. 2138] 25% scale
That's a... Fascinating lower bow shape. I can only imagine that if this had gone to production that it would have been amended to a more traditional shape.
Presumably it was an attempt to reduce interference with the sonar during torpedo firing and guidance cables rubbing over the sonar dome. Can see the logic but its hardly an elegant looking solution.
 

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