Unbuilt Japanese Aircraft Carriers

[T-50]

Hi people I'm searching for data/drawings of never build Japanese carriers such as the G19 project
Hopefully some one can help me on this subject

 

[Tzoli]

There are some designs and proposals for Japanese carriers which never built. Sadly only a few have drawings, but here are the list of the never built ones and drawings I know to exist:

Shokaku (Hosho's never built Sister) Variant 1 (9.500tons) - 1920 (only data table exists)
Shokaku (Hosho's never built Sister) Variant 2 (10.000tons) - 1920 (only data table exists)
Kaga Preliminary Design A - 1923 (drawing available)
Kaga Preliminary Design B - 1923 (drawing available)
Akagi Preliminary Design - 1923 (drawing available)
Unknown cruiser-carrier design - 1926 (10.000tons) (drawing available)
Design G-5 light carrier (9.800tons) - 1932 (no drawing or data available)
Design G-6 cruiser-carrier, Soryu preliminary (17.500tons) - 1932 (drawing available)
Design G-8 fleet carrier, Soryu preliminary (17.500tons) - 1933 (drawing available)
Design W-105 cruiser-carrier, Oyodo preliminary (16.600tons) - 1938 (drawing available)
Design G-12 fleet carrier, Taiho preliminary (17.000tons) - 1941 (no drawing or data available)
Design G-14 fleet carrier (50.000tons) - 1942 (no drawing or data available)
Design G-15 fleet carrier, Taiho-Kai (30.100tons) - 1942 (drawing available)
Myoko class light carrier conversion - 1942/43 (no drawing but some data available)
Takao class light carrier conversion - 1942/43 (no drawing but some data available)
Mogami class light carrier conversion - 1942/43 (no drawing but some data available)
Tone class light carrier conversion - 1942/43 (drawing available)
Kongo class fleet carrier conversion - 1942/43 (no drawing but some data available)
Ise class fleet carrier conversion - 1942/43 (no drawing but some data available)
Fuso class fleet carrier conversion - 1942/43 (drawing available)
Nagato class fleet carrier conversion - 1942/43 (no drawing but some data available)
Fuso class aviation battleship conversion - 1943 (drawing available)
Design G-18 light carrier (Improved Ibuki?) (15.500tons) - 1944 (only data exists)
CVH proposal (8.000tons) - 1960 (artist impression)

Ask which should I provide


I have no knowledge of the design G-19 if existed.
The last carriers are:

G-13 - Taiho class (1941)
G-14 - 50000-ton carrier design (1942)
G-15 - Taiho-Kai class (1942)
G-16 - Unryu class (1942)
G-17 - Shinano class (1942)
G-18 CVL 15.500tons 2x2 76mm, 42 aircrafts (1944)

 

[T-50]

thank you for the information Tzoli

 

[luciano.grazioli]

Tzoli, where is possible find data, drawing and artist impression of these projects? Many thanks. Luciano.

 

[Tzoli]

Tzoli, where is possible find data, drawing and artist impression of these projects? Many thanks. Luciano.

For the IJN Cruisers proposed for carrier conversion, I suggest Japanese Cruisers of the Pacific War by Eric LaCroix and Linton Wells
http://www.combinedfleet.com/book0598.htm

For data of the 2nd Hosho or Improved Hosho, as well as drawings for the Akagi and Kaga preliminaries I suggest The University of Tokyo's Online Hiraga Archive:
http://gazo.dl.itc.u-tokyo.ac.jp/hiraga2/login;jsessionid=1FE3B84BCC21CF8A08C2CE23579A07EF

For the cold War CVH design as well as various WW2 carrier proposals I suggest the Japanese Wiki:
https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E6%B5%B7%E4%B8%8A%E8%87%AA%E8%A1%9B%E9%9A%8A%E3%81%AE%E8%88%AA%E7%A9%BA%E6%AF%8D%E8%89%A6%E5%BB%BA%E9%80%A0%E6%A7%8B%E6%83%B3#.E5.AF.BE.E6.BD.9C.E6.8E.83.E8.A8.8E.E7.BE.A4.E3.81.A8CVH_.282.E6.AC.A1.E9.98.B2.E4.BB.A5.E5.89.8D.29
https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/G18_(%E7%A9%BA%E6%AF%8D)

 

[luciano.grazioli]

Many thanks, Tzoli. Luciano.

 

[Tzoli]

Here is the CVL version of Chikuma:
http://i.imgur.com/bb9sfxC.jpg

And my drawings of the Mogami variants including the CVL proposal based on the Ibuki and Chikuma CVL:
http://orig13.deviantart.net/5d15/f/2016/158/e/d/the_mogami_variants_by_tzoli-d9xbvs7.png

 

[Winston]

Nice work Tzoli!

 

[airman]

Thank you Tzoli

 

[airman]

Tzoli, where is possible find data, drawing and artist impression of these projects? Many thanks. Luciano.

For the IJN Cruisers proposed for carrier conversion, I suggest Japanese Cruisers of the Pacific War by Eric LaCroix and Linton Wells

Book Review

For data of the 2nd Hosho or Improved Hosho, as well as drawings for the Akagi and Kaga preliminaries I suggest The University of Tokyo's Online Hiraga Archive:

平賀譲デジタルアーカイブ · HOME · 東京大学学術資産等アーカイブズ共用サーバ

gazo.dl.itc.u-tokyo.ac.jp

For the cold War CVH design as well as various WW2 carrier proposals I suggest the Japanese Wiki:

海上自衛隊の航空母艦建造構想 - Wikipedia

ja.wikipedia.org

G18 (空母) - Wikipedia

ja.wikipedia.org

I Have seen IJN Cruisers proposed for carrier conversion : also costruction of carriers for 1946 , 1947 e 1948 . It was all too " optimistic ".

 

[Tzoli]

Do you speak of the Unryus?

 

[airman]

Do you speak of the Unryus?

Including Unryu's class Carriers and Improved Taiho Class .

 

[Tzoli]

Yes a large number of unryus were ordered so that would take time to finish

 

[Julio Garay Terrazas]

I have these images. The color image as usual I don't remember where I found it. The blueprint was get in the older Warshipprojects page.

 

[Julio Garay Terrazas]

This hybrid is valid?

 

[Tzoli]

Mogami are real as rebuilt, Ise is a valid alternative proposal to the late war rebuild and I have somewhere a BBV and CV Fuso drawing from a Japanese magazine

 

[Tzoli]

From this magazine here is the relevant pages of the Fuso BBV and full CV conversion proposals:

 

[Julio Garay Terrazas]

Never finished CV Ibuki. I get the image from the book Portaaviones de todo el mundo, from Gino Galuppini. Editorial Espasa-Calpe S.A. Madrid 1984

 

[Tzoli]

Ibuki is well known, it shows how the IJN Cruisers considered for conversion would had looked like in carrier form. Tone and Chikuma would be similar with changes to the funnel, and forward part of the hull under the flight deck:

https://imgur.com/bb9sfxC

The other classes from Takao to Mogami would had similar alterations based on their hull and funnel arrangements.

 

[Nancy1477]

There are some designs and proposals for Japanese carriers which never built. Sadly only a few have drawings, but here are the list of the never built ones and drawings I know to exist:

Shokaku (Hosho's never built Sister) Variant 1 (9.500tons) - 1920 (only data table exists)
Shokaku (Hosho's never built Sister) Variant 2 (10.000tons) - 1920 (only data table exists)
Kaga Preliminary Design A - 1923 (drawing available)
Kaga Preliminary Design B - 1923 (drawing available)
Akagi Preliminary Design - 1923 (drawing available)
Unknown cruiser-carrier design - 1926 (10.000tons) (drawing available)
Design G-5 light carrier (9.800tons) - 1932 (no drawing or data available)
Design G-6 cruiser-carrier, Soryu preliminary (17.500tons) - 1932 (drawing available)
Design G-8 fleet carrier, Soryu preliminary (17.500tons) - 1933 (drawing available)
Design W-105 cruiser-carrier, Oyodo preliminary (16.600tons) - 1938 (drawing available)
Design G-12 fleet carrier, Taiho preliminary (17.000tons) - 1941 (no drawing or data available)
Design G-14 fleet carrier (50.000tons) - 1942 (no drawing or data available)
Design G-15 fleet carrier, Taiho-Kai (30.100tons) - 1942 (drawing available)
Myoko class light carrier conversion - 1942/43 (no drawing but some data available)
Takao class light carrier conversion - 1942/43 (no drawing but some data available)
Mogami class light carrier conversion - 1942/43 (no drawing but some data available)
Tone class light carrier conversion - 1942/43 (drawing available)
Kongo class fleet carrier conversion - 1942/43 (no drawing but some data available)
Ise class fleet carrier conversion - 1942/43 (no drawing but some data available)
Fuso class fleet carrier conversion - 1942/43 (drawing available)
Nagato class fleet carrier conversion - 1942/43 (no drawing but some data available)
Fuso class aviation battleship conversion - 1943 (drawing available)
Design G-18 light carrier (Improved Ibuki?) (15.500tons) - 1944 (only data exists)
CVH proposal (8.000tons) - 1960 (artist impression)

Ask which should I provide


I have no knowledge of the design G-19 if existed.
The last carriers are:

G-13 - Taiho class (1941)
G-14 - 50000-ton carrier design (1942)
G-15 - Taiho-Kai class (1942)
G-16 - Unryu class (1942)
G-17 - Shinano class (1942)
G-18 CVL 15.500tons 2x2 76mm, 42 aircrafts (1944)

Hi, I'm looking for the actual design scheduled for Fuso/Yamahiro, due to be converted to Aircraft Carriers (1942 or before). Actually, I'm looking for the CV version, not the hybrid battleships version like the Ise/Hyuga ordered then cancelled later. Where Can I find it? Thanks

 

[Tzoli]

From this magazine here is the relevant pages of the Fuso BBV and full CV conversion proposals:

There are some designs and proposals for Japanese carriers which never built. Sadly only a few have drawings, but here are the list of the never built ones and drawings I know to exist:

Shokaku (Hosho's never built Sister) Variant 1 (9.500tons) - 1920 (only data table exists)
Shokaku (Hosho's never built Sister) Variant 2 (10.000tons) - 1920 (only data table exists)
Kaga Preliminary Design A - 1923 (drawing available)
Kaga Preliminary Design B - 1923 (drawing available)
Akagi Preliminary Design - 1923 (drawing available)
Unknown cruiser-carrier design - 1926 (10.000tons) (drawing available)
Design G-5 light carrier (9.800tons) - 1932 (no drawing or data available)
Design G-6 cruiser-carrier, Soryu preliminary (17.500tons) - 1932 (drawing available)
Design G-8 fleet carrier, Soryu preliminary (17.500tons) - 1933 (drawing available)
Design W-105 cruiser-carrier, Oyodo preliminary (16.600tons) - 1938 (drawing available)
Design G-12 fleet carrier, Taiho preliminary (17.000tons) - 1941 (no drawing or data available)
Design G-14 fleet carrier (50.000tons) - 1942 (no drawing or data available)
Design G-15 fleet carrier, Taiho-Kai (30.100tons) - 1942 (drawing available)
Myoko class light carrier conversion - 1942/43 (no drawing but some data available)
Takao class light carrier conversion - 1942/43 (no drawing but some data available)
Mogami class light carrier conversion - 1942/43 (no drawing but some data available)
Tone class light carrier conversion - 1942/43 (drawing available)
Kongo class fleet carrier conversion - 1942/43 (no drawing but some data available)
Ise class fleet carrier conversion - 1942/43 (no drawing but some data available)
Fuso class fleet carrier conversion - 1942/43 (drawing available)
Nagato class fleet carrier conversion - 1942/43 (no drawing but some data available)
Fuso class aviation battleship conversion - 1943 (drawing available)
Design G-18 light carrier (Improved Ibuki?) (15.500tons) - 1944 (only data exists)
CVH proposal (8.000tons) - 1960 (artist impression)

Ask which should I provide


I have no knowledge of the design G-19 if existed.
The last carriers are:

G-13 - Taiho class (1941)
G-14 - 50000-ton carrier design (1942)
G-15 - Taiho-Kai class (1942)
G-16 - Unryu class (1942)
G-17 - Shinano class (1942)
G-18 CVL 15.500tons 2x2 76mm, 42 aircrafts (1944)

Hi, I'm looking for the actual design scheduled for Fuso/Yamahiro, due to be converted to Aircraft Carriers (1942 or before). Actually, I'm looking for the CV version, not the hybrid battleships version like the Ise/Hyuga ordered then cancelled later. Where Can I find it? Thanks

Erm??? a few posts below my comment?

https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/never-build-japanese-aircraft-carriers.27292/#post-400235

Actually the 3rd post above your comment.

 

[cattalonX]

 

[Nancy1477]

Thanks a lot. It would be very usefull in a what if I studie for the Great Turkey shot with a major strenghtening of the Japanese Fleet

 

[Tzoli]

cattalonX Those are the Ise and Tone conversion proposals

 

[Nancy1477]

cattalonX Those are the Ise and Tone conversion proposals

Yes I see. I know Ise Class was choosen because accidental damages to Ise's turret no 5 in Spring 1942. And Tone was heavily damaged at Midway.
But Actually, Fuso and Yamashiro were older, nearly useless as BB, and so are a good choice for conversion. Juste have to bypass industrial bottlenecks. May be Fuso and Yamashiro would have been converted (fall 42 - winter 43/44) if the conversion of Shinano was cancelled

 

[Tzoli]

To my knowledge Fuso and Yamashiro was the primary candidate for conversion due to their age and worse turret arrangements than the Ise class, but as you said Ise's damage made her the first choice. After they were done Fuso and Yamashiro was to be converted in Kure and Yokosuka respectively starting in 1943 June at similar lines.

 

[Nancy1477]

To my knowledge Fuso and Yamashiro was the primary candidate for conversion due to their age and worse turret arrangements than the Ise class, but as you said Ise's damage made her the first choice. After they were done Fuso and Yamashiro was to be converted in Kure and Yokosuka respectively starting in 1943 June at similar lines.

What was the estimated delay for conversion? 12 months?

With trials thereafter, it would means an operational status in August 44, like Unryu, and so without any prospect to have a trained air groupe... That's why, for my What If, these conversions must prevail on the Shinano's one. Last question, of course, no BB conversion imagined by IJN for Fuso or Ise before Midway? (Big Gun admirals would have stopped any studies like that before Pearl... But just After, why not?)

 

[Tzoli]

9 months for the Cruisers (Myoko and later)
Furutaka and Kako classes were considered too small hence not included and somewhat later the cruiser conversions discarded as they were required for fleet service.
18months for capital ships (Kongo, Fuso, Ise, Nagato classes)
Yamato class not included as they were too new too important too powerful
Kongo class was later deemed to be require too much reconstruction work.
Nagato class discarded as their 41cm cannons were still quite powerful for surface action.

The loss of aircraft carriers at Midway resulted in these studies for conversions.

IJN Battle doctrine was to weaken the enemy with air strikes and provide air cover for the surface units while the battleships go in for the kill.
There might had been proposals or discussions for conversions pre Midway but I've not heard or read anything regarding this.

 

[tom!]

Hi.

At the Moment I´m specially interested in the Shokaku Class CVL-project. Maybe I´m too noob but I´m not able to get the data from the Hiraga Archive . Can someone help me out?

Are there any what-if drawings now?

Yours

tom!

 

[Tzoli]

Shokaku CVL? You mean Hosho's never-were half-sister?

 

[cattalonX]

 

[Tzoli]

That looks like Ibuki

 

[Tzoli]

An older drawing of mine for the 1st version of the improved Hosho:

IJN Shokaku newer-were sister of IJN Hosho by Tzoli on DeviantArt

www.deviantart.com

data table:

平賀譲デジタルアーカイブ · Aeroplane Carrier "Amagi"&"Akagi"〔他、重量表・航空母艦主要目検討資料〕 · 東京大学学術資産等アーカイブズ共用サーバ

iiif.dl.itc.u-tokyo.ac.jp

The last drawing should be the modified/improved Hosho:

平賀譲デジタルアーカイブ · 天城・赤城砲装改装案(軍令部希望ノモノ)/列国新式航空母艦要目表(大正十年五月)/列国新式母艦発着甲板比較図(大正十年五月調)〔他計六点〕 · 東京大学学術資産等アーカイブズ共用サーバ

iiif.dl.itc.u-tokyo.ac.jp

or:

https://iiif.dl.itc.u-tokyo.ac.jp/iiif/hiraga/21840201/21840201-003_001.tif/full/full/0/default.jpg

 

[tom!]

Hi.

Yep, that´s exactly what I was thinking of
Many, many thanks. As I thought. I was so close but too impatient to find it...

Yours

tom!

 

[cattalonX]

That looks like Ibuki

Why Ibuki have two elevator but Tone only have one········

 

[Tzoli]

That looks like Ibuki

Why Ibuki have two elevator but Tone only have one········

Because Tone have turrets and barbettes only forward and thus space for elevator wells there only, why Ibuki was a modified Mogami and had turrets forward and aft

 

[tom!]

Hi.

fontessa from the axis history forum found some additional infos on the Shokaku class CVL:

Ship name Shokaku given: 17 February 1921
Added Shokaku in the aircraft carrier column in the ship classification grade table 艦艇類別等級表: 3 March 1921
Radio station abbreviation code "JWS" given: 17 March 1921
Notification of construction schedule (November, 1922) and shipyard (Asano Shipyard, same as Hosho) to British Embassy Military Attaché: 20 May 1921
Cancellation of construction of Shokaku / Decided remodel of Akagi and Amagi to aircraft carriers: 20 August 1923
Heavy damage to Amagi at Yokosuka Naval Yard due to the Great Kanto Earthquake: 23 September 1923
In Ship classification grade table, Deleted Kaga in the battleship column / Deleted Akagi in the battle cruiser column: 19 November 1923
In Ship classification grade table, Deleted Shokaku / Added Kaga and Akagi in the aircraft carriers column: 19 November 1923

Yours

tom!

 

[Tzoli]

Interesting!

 

[SARG12]

Design G-6 cruiser-carrier, Soryu preliminary (17.500tons) - 1932 (drawing available)
Design G-8 fleet carrier, Soryu preliminary (17.500tons) - 1933 (drawing available)

Hello
You can help with these drawings?
And perhaps you have Soryu drawings, the final version?

Thanks

 

[cattalonX]