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NAVAIR Details Changes in Navy V-22 Osprey Variant

Triton

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Sorry fellas, no COD Viking conversion. :-(

"NAVAIR Details Changes in Navy V-22 Osprey Variant"
by Megan Eckstein
April 2, 2015 11:15 AM

Source:
http://news.usni.org/2015/04/02/navair-details-changes-in-navy-v-22-osprey-variant

The Navy is in the early stages of planning its carrier onboard delivery (COD) replacement platform, which will be a baseline MV-22 Osprey plus an extended range fuel system, high-frequency radio and public address system, Naval Air Systems Command (NAVAIR) officials told USNI News this week.

Navy and Marine Corps leadership in January signed a memorandum of understanding (MOU) stating that the Navy would begin buying a variant of the Marines’ tiltrotor platform beginning in Fiscal Year 2018. Since then, spokesman Billy Ray Brown said, NAVAIR has been preparing for an anticipated FY 2016 engineering change proposal (ECP) by conducting an analysis of options for the development of the three changes needed to create the Navy variant.

Though the January MOU called the Navy variant the HV-22, in contrast to the Marines’ MV-22 and the special operations CV-22, Brown said the Navy has not officially named the Navy variant yet.

“In Fiscal 2016, the Navy will begin implementing an engineering change to incorporate the new systems required for the Navy V-22,” Brown said.
“The engineering change will add an extended range fuel system, high-frequency radio and public address system. The engineering change is planned to be incorporated into the V-22 production line with the FY18 procurement of Navy variant V-22s, with deliveries commencing in approximately 2020.”

Brown added that “long-range aerial logistics support capability is critical to seabase operations,” and therefore the longer range fuel capability – and a high frequency radio to support over-the-horizon communications to support these greater distances – would be needed.

The Marines MV-22 variant is already considered a long-range platform – Boeing claims a 428 nautical mile range with 24 Marines onboard, but thanks to aerial refueling the Marines in December 2013 flew more than 3,400 nautical miles from Spain to Djibouti and then another 800 nautical miles to Uganda.

Still, the Navy is seeking a range of 1,150 nautical miles without aerial refueling. Brown said the aircraft would need more fuel to reach that range, which requires trading off other capabilities such as the number of passengers. Whereas the Marines would be using the MV-22 to transport battle-ready Marines and their gear, the Navy variant would be able to go farther but carry less weight while transporting people and equipment.

“The Navy’s minimum requirement for the V-22 Navy variant is 1,150 nm,” Brown said.
“To best support the Navy’s ‘rebalance toward the Asia-Pacific region’ as directed by the Defense Strategic Guidance (January 2012), the COD requires the ability to transport cargo loads at least 1,150 nm under the environmental conditions most commonly found in the Pacific [area of responsibility].”

The public address system would also be needed to communicate with passengers in the back of the aircraft, which is not needed when the MV-22 and CV-22 transports Marines and special operators with their own radios and communications gear.

Brown said there are no deadlines or anticipated costs yet for the engineering work. The Navy is awaiting budget approval before it can move ahead with the ECP in more detail.

After a February hearing on Capitol Hill, Vice Adm. Joseph Mulloy, deputy chief of naval operations for integration of capabilities and resources, told reporters that Marine Corps Reserve pilots who are already trained to operate the MV-22 would join carrier airwings to fly COD missions on the first few deployments once the Navy variant delivers in FY 2020. Marines will train Navy crews to operate and maintain the platform.

Mulloy went on to say this would be a great opportunity for integration as a “naval aviation” force.

“Ultimately the V-22s in the COD mission will have extra tanks and other things on them,” he said.
“What the Marines are interested in is, if it can go longer and fly longer, the Marines may want to get into what I call the Navy variant. The Navy variant may become a naval variant.”

Brown said that the Marine Corps could decide to include any or all of the changes into its MV-22 and would work with Bell-Boeing to arrange those changes. Even if the Marines do not adopt these changes, both services using the Osprey should bring down cost, and Brown said “commonality between the V-22 variants means that there should be no deviation from current MV-22 processes, procedures and required spare parts,” which would create efficiencies in the training and logistics pipelines.
 

Adventurer104

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From Amarillo news Globe
"The Navy Osprey, dubbed the HV-22, will differ from the Marine Corps MV-22. The HV-22 will feature an external fuel tank, different communications and navigation capabilities, high frequency radios, a shipboard landing system and a public address system. The HV-22 is expected to replace the C-2A Greyhound, a turboprop aircraft."

One? Any ideas on the location?
 

shedofdread

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One wonders if the Fleet Air Arm will be buying some? Obviously, something like this will be needed as no cats etc on the new carriers...
 

Thorvic

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shedofdread said:
One wonders if the Fleet Air Arm will be buying some? Obviously, something like this will be needed as no cats etc on the new carriers...
No plans to do so at the moment or certainly into the next SDSR, however i expect they will study the type in USN/USMC use post 2020 and may try an evaluation to see if it becomes a 'must have' a 'would like' or a 'no thanks'. We'll certainly be trialling the USN V-22 aboard the QECs but thats going to be for joint operations compatability evaluation

Alot will depend on the COD and potential Tanker roles plus the obvious trial of additional intrest would be as a possible Crowsnest platform. So its something they are bound to evaluate to see if performane could justify the costs, but not this decade, the wildcard factor may be if the USMC ask to evaluate Crowsnest on V-22 for their own use as an embeded AEW, as that might prompt an earlier evaluation.
 

RyanCrierie

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I'm still amazed they picked this for the COD variant. COD doesn't need high performance in either regime; just efficiency/$$$; neither of which the V-22 has...


Bribes and kickbacks most surely were involved...
 

TomS

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Ryan, that's a bold accusation.

The alternative argument for the selection is that the Navy saw value in being able to fly long-range logistics flights directly to and from other types of ships, such as large-deck amphibs, replenishment ships, sealift ships, and even some newer combatants. In effect, the Osprey lets Fleet logistics units replace both C-2s and MH-53s in a single airframe.
 

marauder2048

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Geoff_B said:
shedofdread said:
One wonders if the Fleet Air Arm will be buying some? Obviously, something like this will be needed as no cats etc on the new carriers...
No plans to do so at the moment or certainly into the next SDSR, however i expect they will study the type in USN/USMC use post 2020 and may try an evaluation to see if it becomes a 'must have' a 'would like' or a 'no thanks'. We'll certainly be trialling the USN V-22 aboard the QECs but thats going to be for joint operations compatability evaluation

Alot will depend on the COD and potential Tanker roles plus the obvious trial of additional intrest would be as a possible Crowsnest platform. So its something they are bound to evaluate to see if performane could justify the costs, but not this decade, the wildcard factor may be if the USMC ask to evaluate Crowsnest on V-22 for their own use as an embeded AEW, as that might prompt an earlier evaluation.
Excellent points all around. Once the USN was "all in" on V-22 I immediately thought about Crowsnest.

Any news on Crowsnest or has the imminent UK general election frozen things? LM's proposal seems to be the more general and exportable solution but I don't know if the latter would factor into the UK's decision process.
 

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Adventurer104 said:
From Amarillo news Globe
"The Navy Osprey, dubbed the HV-22, will differ from the Marine Corps MV-22. The HV-22 will feature an external fuel tank, different communications and navigation capabilities, high frequency radios, a shipboard landing system and a public address system. The HV-22 is expected to replace the C-2A Greyhound, a turboprop aircraft."

One? Any ideas on the location?
Any update on the where and how of this "external fuel tank"?
 

yasotay

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Suppose it could be on top...
 

marauder2048

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yasotay said:
Suppose it could be on top...
I had just assumed they had figured out how to accommodate more fuel in the sponsons.
 

fightingirish

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The U.S. Navy has officially designated its Osprey as CMV-22B.
Source: http://www.navair.navy.mil/index.cfm?fuseaction=home.NAVAIRNewsStory&id=6176
 

TomS

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Well that's about the dumbest designation yet...
 

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Adventurer104 said:
Adventurer104 said:
From Amarillo news Globe
"The Navy Osprey, dubbed the HV-22, will differ from the Marine Corps MV-22. The HV-22 will feature an external fuel tank, different communications and navigation capabilities, high frequency radios, a shipboard landing system and a public address system. The HV-22 is expected to replace the C-2A Greyhound, a turboprop aircraft."

One? Any ideas on the location?
Any update on the where and how of this "external fuel tank"?
If you try to dig up the original press release, you see it worded slightly differently:
http://news.usni.org/2015/04/02/navair-details-changes-in-navy-v-22-osprey-variant

“The engineering change will add an extended range fuel system, high-frequency radio and public address system. "


I suspect somebody read "add an extended range fuel system" and assumed that it meant "add one external fuel tank." A photo of a display model of the HV-22 doesn't show anything like an additional external tank, unless it's in the form of modified sponsons.
 

NeilChapman

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Here's a description of the cabin aux tanks.

Wiki mentions block 4 engine upgrades to 10k hp from original 6 (and I think current 7,600 w/block 3 but can't find the source where I read that).

Would we expect the performance upgrade to maintain the current fuel consumption?
 

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sferrin

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RyanCrierie said:
I'm still amazed they picked this for the COD variant. COD doesn't need high performance in either regime; just efficiency/$$$; neither of which the V-22 has...


Bribes and kickbacks most surely were involved...
What other aircraft could they have picked that could also go to the gators?
 

yasotay

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sferrin said:
RyanCrierie said:
I'm still amazed they picked this for the COD variant. COD doesn't need high performance in either regime; just efficiency/$$$; neither of which the V-22 has...


Bribes and kickbacks most surely were involved...
What other aircraft could they have picked that could also go to the gators?
Or any other ship with a landing deck of sufficient size.
 

sferrin

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yasotay said:
sferrin said:
RyanCrierie said:
I'm still amazed they picked this for the COD variant. COD doesn't need high performance in either regime; just efficiency/$$$; neither of which the V-22 has...


Bribes and kickbacks most surely were involved...
What other aircraft could they have picked that could also go to the gators?
Or any other ship with a landing deck of sufficient size.


"An MV-22 Osprey assigned to Marine Medium Tiltrotor Squadron (VMM) 163, Reinforced, approaches the Military Sealift Command dry cargo and ammunition ship USNS Robert E. Peary (T-AKE 5) to transport an AV-8B Harrier jet engine to the amphibious assault ship USS Makin Island (LHD 8) during a replenishment-at-sea in October 2014. US Navy photo."


Let's see them do that with a C-2.
 

marauder2048

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Orionblamblam said:
Adventurer104 said:
Adventurer104 said:
From Amarillo news Globe
"The Navy Osprey, dubbed the HV-22, will differ from the Marine Corps MV-22. The HV-22 will feature an external fuel tank, different communications and navigation capabilities, high frequency radios, a shipboard landing system and a public address system. The HV-22 is expected to replace the C-2A Greyhound, a turboprop aircraft."

One? Any ideas on the location?
Any update on the where and how of this "external fuel tank"?
If you try to dig up the original press release, you see it worded slightly differently:
http://news.usni.org/2015/04/02/navair-details-changes-in-navy-v-22-osprey-variant

“The engineering change will add an extended range fuel system, high-frequency radio and public address system. "


I suspect somebody read "add an extended range fuel system" and assumed that it meant "add one external fuel tank." A photo of a display model of the HV-22 doesn't show anything like an additional external tank, unless it's in the form of modified sponsons.
Confusingly, Bell, when contrasting V-280 and V-22 describes V-280 as not having "side external fuel tanks"
 

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https://news.usni.org/2016/04/01/navair-awards-bell-boeing-151-million-to-begin-navy-variant-v-22-design
 

TomS

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Yeah, we kind of do. The amphibs have depended on CH-53 for fleet logistics type support for a long time. The more we ask them to operate independently of the carriers, the more important it became that they can get that support outside the radius of helicopters.
 

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Looks like sensors would be for Navy version as well.

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/dod-explores-multispectral-sensor-options-for-v-22-o-424586/
 

sferrin

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RyanC said:
sferrin said:
What other aircraft could they have picked that could also go to the gators?
It's called UNREP. Do we need to create the ultimate VTOL cargo delivery system for the small boys as well?
If UNREP was all they needed there'd be no reason for the C-2. As for VTOL to "the small boys" they're called helicopters.
 

sferrin

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fightingirish said:
Please notice the enlarged front fuel sponsons.
Source: https://twitter.com/BoeingDefense/status/983717517070950400
Hopefully an ASW variant is in the cards. Finally. (One of the first ads for the V-22 back in the day showed one attacking a Typhoon SSBN.)
 

F-14D

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sferrin said:
RyanC said:
sferrin said:
What other aircraft could they have picked that could also go to the gators?
It's called UNREP. Do we need to create the ultimate VTOL cargo delivery system for the small boys as well?
If UNREP was all they needed there'd be no reason for the C-2. As for VTOL to "the small boys" they're called helicopters.
Ah, but helicopters are only effective when the two ships are close to each other. If they had the CV-22 in The Hunt for Red October, the carrier and submarine wouldn't have had to alter course to get close enough to each other so Alec Baldwin could get dropped in the water (not an unpleasant thought, though).
 

FighterJock

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sferrin said:
fightingirish said:
Please notice the enlarged front fuel sponsons.
Source: https://twitter.com/BoeingDefense/status/983717517070950400
Hopefully an ASW variant is in the cards. Finally. (One of the first ads for the V-22 back in the day showed one attacking a Typhoon SSBN.)
Add to that the potential for a proper AWACS variant, after seeing an early version with a triangular radar AESA? I think that would be better for the RN Queen Elizabeth class aircraft carriers than another helicopter based AWACS.
 

F-14D

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FighterJock said:
sferrin said:
fightingirish said:
Please notice the enlarged front fuel sponsons.
Source: https://twitter.com/BoeingDefense/status/983717517070950400
Hopefully an ASW variant is in the cards. Finally. (One of the first ads for the V-22 back in the day showed one attacking a Typhoon SSBN.)
Add to that the potential for a proper AWACS variant, after seeing an early version with a triangular radar AESA? I think that would be better for the RN Queen Elizabeth class aircraft carriers than another helicopter based AWACS.
There was also a proposal for an AEW variant with fore and aft antennas like the stillborn Nimrod AEW. Problem remains money, who'd pay the upfront costs to develop it?

Now, Bell has said their smaller, unmanned V-247 could be used for AEW, I imagine it would carry the antenna and transmit/receive equipment, and datalink to a ship where the processing/control is actually done.
 
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