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Nakajima Ki-87 and it's development plan

blackkite

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Ki-87 had following development plans.

1. Middle altitude fighter Ki-87 otsu.(delete turbo charger, 20mm cannon×6)

2. Ki-87Ⅱ(engine HA217(HA46) take off power 3,000hp, Maximum speed 738km/h/11,000m, Service ceiling 12,855m)

http://www9.plala.or.jp/fukugiya/72-091-ki87.htm
 

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windswords

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The Ki-87 was a very large aircraft. You might not see this from the pictures posted. This is at least the size of P-47, maybe bigger!
 

blackkite

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Thank you so much Justo! :D
The distance between engine and turbocharger of Ki-87 was very short, exhaust gas temperature drop from engine to turbocharger was small, so turbocharger turbine suffered high temperature.
This is one of the reason for Ki-87 engine trouble. Compact but severe for turbine. Also it's hard for inter cooler installation.
(Same as turbo charged Raiden)
 

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gerhard

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Hi Justo

This is a very interesting development plan.

Do you perhaps know the name of the first plan in drawing number 012? Is it an advanced development of an existing plan? What engine did it use?

Cheers
Gerhard
:-\
 

Arjen

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The top aircraft in image ñ012 is a Republic XP-47J, the middle aircraft is a Mitsubishi A7M Reppu. <edit> Reppu-kai. I think.
 

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Very nice too, because it illustrates how big some Japanese fighters had become. Thank you, Justo. Again :)
 

CherryBlossom

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Hello chaps,

Is there any cockpit photos available? Perhaps maybe a drawing of the panel at least like the Ki-94-II? Would be interested to see what it looks like. :D

Dean
 

blackkite

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I can't find cockpit or panel photo of Ki-87 fighter.
http://gunsight.jp/c/cockpit-3D.htm
 

blackkite

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I can't find air intake for turbocharger, air intake for intercooler and air intake for oil cooler of this fighter. ???
This fighter had forced cocling fan.
Air intake for turbocharger, air intake for intercooler and air intake for oil cooler were located behind forced cooling fan?
If so, it was a very radical troublesome design.
Drawing 1
排気タービン過給器 : Turbocharger
潤滑油冷却器 Oil cooler
排気ガス集合環 : Exhaust gas manifold
圧縮空気ダクト : Compressed air duct
潤滑油タンク : Oil tank
水メタノール液タンク : Water methanol tank
胴体内主燃料タンク : Fuselage main fiel tank
発動機取付架 : Engine fitting flame
Drawing 2
①タービン : Turbine
②インペラ室 : Inpeller room
③タービン用油タンク : Turbine oil tank
④集合環状管 : Manifold
⑤吸気導管 : Air intake pipe
⑥軸受冷却管 : Bearing cooling pipe
⑦操縦槓桿 : Control rod
⑧圧縮空気導管 : Compressed air duct
⑨中間冷却器 : Intercooler
⑩吸入空気筒 : Intake air duct
⑪圧縮空気筒(冷却後): Compressed air duct(after cooling)
⑫圧縮空気発動機入口 : Compressued air engine inlet 
 

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blackkite

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According to this drawing, Ki-87-Ⅱ had some air intakes outside of the engine nacelle. ;D
And turbo charger was located under the fuselage same as P-47 and Ki-94-Ⅱ.
This Ki-87-Ⅱ drawing is a amazing one for me!!!
 

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CherryBlossom

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Thanks for sharing black!

Shame about the cockpit, it seems a similar case with the Ki-64. If only one surfaced!
 

blackkite

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Hi! More pictures.
Enjoy!
You can see oil cooler cooling air outlet nozzle at the left side wing root.(Bottom picture)
Right side wing root outlet nozzle is intercooler cooling air outlet?
 

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Stargazer2006

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Seems like this one could have given the "Jugs" a hard time!
 

blackkite

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Skyblazer said:
Seems like this one could have given the "Jugs" a hard time!
Hi! My pleasure. :D Cherry give me the chance and someone help us.
 

CherryBlossom

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blackkite said:
Skyblazer said:
Seems like this one could have given the "Jugs" a hard time!
Hi! My pleasure. :D Cherry give me the chance and someone help us.
Good stuff! (Just bought a couple of books so ill have to be reading them soon and snatch a couple of pics)
 

blackkite

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I have a question.
Is this Ki-87-Ⅱ 3 side view based on Nakajima's original drawing? Is this a real design?
Anyway I believe Ki-87-Ⅱ looks like this drawing.
At the beginning of Ki-87 project, the IJA hoped to install turbocharger at the bottom of the fuselage same as P-47 and Ki-94-Ⅱ, but Nakajima rejected this idea, because Nakajima thought that if turbocharger is installed at the bottom of the fuselage, fire occur when fuel leak.
 

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CherryBlossom

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blackkite said:
I have a question.
Is this Ki-87-Ⅱ 3 side view based on Nakajima's original drawing? Is this a real design?
As far as i am concerned, the drawings were never fully finished. Perhaps the design shown there is an illustration on the aircraft description from sources rather than the original drawing? (If that makes sense).
 

blackkite

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CherryBlossom said:
blackkite said:
I have a question.
Is this Ki-87-Ⅱ 3 side view based on Nakajima's original drawing? Is this a real design?
As far as i am concerned, the drawings were never fully finished. Perhaps the design shown there is an illustration on the aircraft description from sources rather than the original drawing? (If that makes sense).
Hmmm....Sharp opinion!!
 

windswords

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Blackkite-san,

Another great drawing by Shigeru Nohara. I took the liberty of cleaning it up a little and moving the 2 sides of the image apart as best I could estimate to negate the center book binding. Here it is:
 

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CherryBlossom

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Hello everyone,

Just wanted to show the Ki-87 that had been made by the developers of War Thunder
.

official announcement was on the website: https://warthunder.com/en/news/4225-development-ki-87-the-super-turbocharged-samurai-en/

Many of us are looking forward to when its in game. :)
 

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blackkite

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Excellent!! Thanks. :eek:
 

CherryBlossom

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blackkite said:
Ki-87 had following development plans.

1. Middle altitude fighter Ki-87 otsu.(delete turbo charger, 20mm cannon×6)

2. Ki-87Ⅱ(engine HA217(HA46) take off power 3,000hp, Maximum speed 738km/h/11,000m, Service ceiling 12,855m)

http://www9.plala.or.jp/fukugiya/72-091-ki87.htm
Hi Blackkite,

Was just wondering where you got the information about the Ki-87 Otsu? Was just wondering if you could provide some more info please!

Many thanks!

Cherry
 

blackkite

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There is following explanation about Ki-87 Otsu in this book page 69.(決定版 日本の陸軍機、学研、ISBN978-4-05-606220-5)

本機にはキ乙87と呼ばれる武装を強化した機体の製作が予定されており、20mm機関砲6門を装備して排気タービンを取り外した中高度戦闘機とする計画であった。

There was a Ki-87 Otus production plan. Ki-87 Otsu had 6 20mm cannon, and had no turbocharger. Ki-87 Otsu was a middle altitude fighter.

Ki-87-2 information source.
http://pico32.web.fc2.com/rikugun/coauthor/kibango.htm
キ87Ⅱ    中島     エンジンをハ217(3000馬力)に換装
Ki-87Ⅱ Nakajima engine : HA217(3,000HP)
 

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CherryBlossom

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blackkite said:
There is following explanation about Ki-87 Otsu in this book page 69.(決定版 日本の陸軍機、学研、ISBN978-4-05-606220-5)

本機にはキ乙87と呼ばれる武装を強化した機体の製作が予定されており、20mm機関砲6門を装備して排気タービンを取り外した中高度戦闘機とする計画であった。

There was a Ki-87 Otus production plan. Ki-87 Otsu had 6 20mm cannon, and had no turbocharger. Ki-87 Otsu was a middle altitude fighter.

Ki-87-2 information source.
http://pico32.web.fc2.com/rikugun/coauthor/kibango.htm
キ87Ⅱ    中島     エンジンをハ217(3000馬力)に換装
Ki-87Ⅱ Nakajima engine : HA217(3,000HP)
Thank you! What is translation for this book?

Cherry
 

blackkite

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日本 means Japan, 陸軍 means the army. means 飛行(hikoki, the aircraft).飛行 means fly. 機 means machine.
So "日本の陸軍機" means "The IJA aircraft".
Publisher ; Gakken(学研)

(決定版 means Definitive edition)

Also please check this site using automatic translater. ;)
http://www.geocities.jp/aobamil/mil-dic/Ki.html
<キ-87Ⅱ>:日本陸軍の試作高々度戦闘機で、キ-87のエンジンをハ217(離昇出力3000馬力。陸軍名称ハ46)に換装し、高度11000mで時速738kmを出せるようにしたもの。計画のみ。参考:世界の傑作機No.24
< KI - 87 II>: Experimental middle altitude fighter for the IJA. Replace an engine of KI-87 by HA 217 (take off power 3000 hp, The IJA name, HA 46).
Maximum speed : 738 km/hour(altitude 11,000m). Only a plan.
Reference: Famous airplanes of the world No.24. Army experimental fighters.
 

blackkite

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Also you can get some Ki-87Ⅱ information in this book.
 

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Deltafan

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The Ki-87-II on the book from Justo/Papacavy is different from the (liquid coolled engine) plane on the cover of the book from Blackkite. What are this cover plane and its engine ?

The Ki-87-II was foreseen to have a Nakajima Ha-217 engine aka Nakajima Ha-46-11 engine. It was a 18 cylinders radial engine with turbocharger :
http://forum.valka.cz/topic/view/67563/Ha-217-Ru-Ha-46-11-Ru
 
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