Minor update to rules and a reminder about behaviour

overscan (PaulMM)

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Change to these two parts:

  • Posts on UFOs, Nazi wunderwaffen/flying saucers/atomic bombs, conspiracy theories, alien crashes, moon landing denials and the like are specifically discouraged and would be better posted elsewhere.

  • Personal attacks, insults or the belittling of others will ALWAYS be considered inappropriate. Respectfully disagree all you like with their ideas or opinions, but don't resort to insults, name-calling or flaming. Argue facts, not personalities. 'Ad hominem' is a logical fallacy and will result in disciplinary action.
It's probably a good time to revisit these rules:

General Conduct

  • Remember The Golden Rule: Treat others as you would have them treat you.
  • ALWAYS be polite and civil in forum posts.
  • Personal attacks, insults or the belittling of others will ALWAYS be considered inappropriate. Respectfully disagree all you like with their ideas or opinions, but don't resort to insults, name-calling or flaming. Argue facts, not personalities. 'Ad hominem' is a logical fallacy and will result in disciplinary action.
  • Remind yourself that these are people with whom you are dealing. They have feelings. Try to treat others with dignity. The world is a big place, with different cultures and conventions.
  • If other users are not as civil as you would like them to be, be more civil, not less in response. That way you don't contribute to the degredation of the tone of the forum by your own actions but are actively doing something about it. Some of our older members in particular are actively turned off from the forum by rudeness, lack of respect and pointless slanging matches, and some valuable former engineers have been lost from the forum's membership.
  • Keep in mind that raw text may be ambiguous and often seems ruder than the same words coming from a person standing in front of you. Irony is not always obvious when written. Remember that text comes without facial expressions, vocal inflection, or body language. Be careful choosing the words you write: what you mean might not be what others understand. Likewise, be careful how you interpret what you read: what you understand might not be what others mean, especially if English is not their first language.
 

DWG

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Can I suggest a possible addition to address one of the things that I suspect was annoying quite a few of us and isn't really covered by the two changes:

"Posts should be concise. If you cannot fit your point in a single post, you probably need to rethink how you are expressing it."
 

uk 75

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Can I suggest a possible addition to address one of the things that I suspect was annoying quite a few of us and isn't really covered by the two changes:

"Posts should be concise. If you cannot fit your point in a single post, you probably need to rethink how you are expressing it."
Not wishing to be defensive but if you want everything that "is annoying quite a few of us" legislated against in the rules, the moderaters will soon be overwhelmed with admin.
 

DWG

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Can I suggest a possible addition to address one of the things that I suspect was annoying quite a few of us and isn't really covered by the two changes:

"Posts should be concise. If you cannot fit your point in a single post, you probably need to rethink how you are expressing it."
Not wishing to be defensive but if you want everything that "is annoying quite a few of us" legislated against in the rules, the moderaters will soon be overwhelmed with admin.

You have a valid point, but that thread was the first one here where I've come across someone whose replies were routinely several thousand words in length - I've probably got more time than most to read stuff here, but at that length the whole thread starts to lose any attraction. It's a rule I'd see more as a style hint for the overwhelming majority of posters, and we know from experience it's not one that would need regular moderation, but it would allow moderators to point new posters at an actual rule if their verbosity become an issue.
 

Arjen

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It is possible to lay out rules of conduct, but it would be a mistake to treat those as anything other than guidelines rather than, for lack of a better word, laws. Occasionally, walls of text are posted here that are original trains of thought. I would be very sad to see those censored. In the recent thread, I saw thousands-of-words posts that were mainly cut-and-paste jobs. The danger is in not differentiating the two types of long replies, and throwing away the good with the bad. So far, moderators are doing a good job, but this, in my view, is due to them applying good sense rather than strict rules.

In short, I'm not sure new rules are the solution to current dilemmas.
 
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Hood

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I don't mind a long post if its informative and readable.

What grinds my teeth is when someone insists on quoting the whole text block - plus multiple embedded images - just to say "wow cool" or a one-liner response along those lines. That's what the like button is for.
 

overscan (PaulMM)

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Rules are updated again to clarify position on swearing and general vulgarity.

  • Swearing and vulgarity is strongly discouraged. The world is a big place, with different cultures and conventions, and what is acceptable to you might be highly offensive to others. Remind yourself that these are real people with whom you are dealing. They have feelings. Try to treat others with dignity.
 

Archibald

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I got the message. Trying to swear less or use innocuous words instead. Yesterday incident was a bout of silly and crass joking. That's easier to avoid than basic swearing in daily posts. None of these two will happen again.

In passing, I want to say that if your sensitivity is hurt by my swearing, I feel equally hurt by some of the political opinions shown here.
So let's be clear: no pity if I swear, but in my case, no pity for such politics if I see any of it.

it's 50-50.

And I feel vulnerable to distraction by non aerospace threads even in The bar section. Problem is that I use the "new posts" function and get into "posting orgy" / "answering orgy" from there: mixing aerospace and non-aerospace threads and sometimes... there is drift toward "unwanted territory".

The bar section should be closed, or the posted subjects should be severely screened.

I will be harsh, but insane US politics makes somewhat impossible to have a non-aerospace balanced discussion here. Voluntarily by some members, or unvolontarily.
The damn thing tends to creeps out of every single non-aerospace discussion.
(well, even from aerospace ones, but far less, related to the forum contains, and easier to crush).

One case in point: in a non-aerospace thread, myself and other non-american members poked fun at libertarians hare-brained schemes. Some american members answered - and the whole discussion come crashing down in flames before a moderator nuked it.
 
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steelpillow

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tl:dr
That means "too long: didn't read."
Which, together with the user Ignore button, pretty much covers it.
On the other hand, isn't tl:dr really just a null message?

I was responding to a post about reining in long, argumentative rants, which seems to have been redacted. My comment should be taken in this context, where tl:dr sends the message that the argument is getting out of hand.

Of course, if a post does genuinely have a lot to say, then it does need to be long. No harm in that.
 

dannydale

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To be fair, both Archibald and steelpillow are exactly right. We need to nerf the cussing, and Americans in particular need to depolarize and stop thinking political opposition is death threats, whether or not that's actually true given the death cult politics known to be present in half of America.

I'm just as guilty as everyone here.
 

Antonio

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In broad sense, everyone should think about the consequences of their behavior/posts in the forum. Please keep it on mind.
Most of us found it looking for information about unbuilt projects so why unrelated threads and posts grow like fungus?
We should stay here for the unbuilt projects alone. There are much better places to express our political tantrum.

My suggestion about political or what else unwanted topics is avoid it, just ignore their posters and let the off topic threads abandoned or closed by the moderators action.
 

dan_inbox

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In broad sense, everyone should think about the consequences of their behavior/posts in the forum. Please keep it on mind.
Most of us found it looking for information about unbuilt projects so why unrelated threads and posts grow like fungus?
We should stay here for the unbuilt projects alone. There are much better places to express our political tantrum.

My suggestion about political or what else unwanted topics is avoid it, just ignore their posters and let the off topic threads abandoned or closed by the moderators action.
That is true, but unfortunately not enough. It is not only this simple. The misbehaving posters who use profanity, attacks, off-color jokes and the rest, they do not do it only in the political topics. They also do it in bona fide threads about unbuilt projects which they pollute, and even derail.

The Bar, Speculation and off-topic sections, I just ignore them and hardly ever go there anymore. But I would advocate that in the on-topic sections Unbuilt and General, the moderation should be extremely strict and every drift should be nipped in the bud.
 

steelpillow

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The Bar, Speculation and off-topic sections, I just ignore them and hardly ever go there anymore. But I would advocate that in the on-topic sections Unbuilt and General, the moderation should be extremely strict and every drift should be nipped in the bud.

I agree with the sentiment here, but there is a balance to be struck. I'd say that every drift which is destructive to the aims of this forum should be nipped in the bud. Sometimes a conversation may wander into unrelated but constructive territory, or a humorous uplift, and it would be a shame to suppress such aspects. And if a theory influencing someone's remarks is utter nonsense or discriminatory, that needs to be acknowledged clearly and emphatically.
 

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