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Messerschmitt Bf/Me 109 - Blohm & Voss Bv 155 Projects & Prototypes

Maveric

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Messerschmitt Bf.109V-21

Hi all,

a very interesting experimental german fighter: the only Messerschmitt Bf.109V-21 (also called Bf.109X) fitted with a P&W SC-G "Twin Wasp". First flight 18.08.1939, civil registration D-IFKQ. A similar aircraft was built in 1940 with a BMW 801A and the registration D-ITXP.

Servus Maveric
 

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Johnbr

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Re: Messerschmitt Bf.109V-21

good find.
 

Hood

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Re: Messerschmitt Bf.109V-21

I wonder why the raised canopy wasn't taken over onto later production models? Given the poor rearward visibility this modification might have been of some use. Even the Me209 fighter (not the racer) had a radically changed canopy or any attempt at better all-round vision.
 

fightingirish

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Re: Messerschmitt Bf.109V-21

Additional info:
http://www.xs4all.nl/~tozu/me109/index.htm
 

taildragger

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Re: Messerschmitt Bf.109V-21

Any idea what the point was of installing an American engine in a 1939 German fighter prototype? Nobody could have expected to be able to get production volumes. Was it just a stand-in for another powerplant?
 

cluttonfred

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Re: Messerschmitt Bf.109V-21

Twin Wasp was used on several civil airliners and license-built in Sweden. It wouldn't have been that hard to reverse engineer one or "borrow" drawings from Swedes. Perhaps an air-cooled radial was considered for a ground attack variant since less susceptible to ground fire?
 

Silencer1

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Re: Messerschmitt Bf.109V-21

Hi!

Has the article in "Klassiker.." mentioned purpose of such prototype design?

I've seen this aircraft in Czech magazine "L+K" - and if I remeber correctly, it's potential customer was Switzerland.

Sorry, no other details.
 

fightingirish

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Re: Messerschmitt Bf.109V-21

Engine discussion:
The engine on the Bf.109V-21 was a Pratt & Whitney SC3-G Twin Wasp, which was purchased for the Ju 90Z-2 ordered by South African Airways.

I will summarize that article published in German magazine Klassiker der Luftfahrt - 02/2011 and post it here later during the day tomorrow.
 

Maveric

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Re: Messerschmitt Bf.109V-21

the article from Klassiker der Luftfahrt 2-2011!
 

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theponja

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Re: Messerschmitt Bf.109V-21

Very interesting. Maveric thanks for the scans.
fightingirish if you translate even a little from the article Could be great. I can't read German :( Sadly.
 

richard B

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Re: Messerschmitt Bf.109V-21

??? The same article by THEODOR MOHR & KARL KÖSSLER was published in the early eighties in Germany and later in France (Le Fana de l'Aviation ,jan.1985) : Same pictures ,almost same text ...

Here ,the 3 views of T. Mohr , dated 1966 .
 

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cluttonfred

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Re: Messerschmitt Bf.109V-21

richard B said:
The same article by THEODOR MOHR & KARL KÖSSLER was published in the early eighties in Germany and later in France (Le Fana de l'Aviation ,jan.1985)
I, for one, would love to see a copy of the French article, either posted here or sent privately if there are copyright concerns. My French is good, my German, not so. Thanks!
 

fightingirish

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Re: Messerschmitt Bf.109V-21

Hi folks,

just saw at a book shop in my local train station, that in the September issue of the German Magazine FLUGZEUG CLASSIC 09/2012, there is an an article about "mutated" Messerschmitt Bf / Me 109s".
The Messerschmitt Bf.109V-21 (also called Bf.109X) is also mentioned. Unfortunately I have no time this weekend to sum up the article and post some snapshots done by my cell phone.
But in the mean time you can go to their website and under "Online blättern!" you can get a small preview of the magazine.
I won't be surprised, if another member will post a screenshot already, before I'm back.
 

sienar

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Re: Messerschmitt Bf.109V-21

According to my sources there were 2 radial engined 109s


Model V21, W.Nr 1770, D-IFKQ with a Twin Wasp SCG


And Model 109X, W.Nr 5608, D-ITXP with a BMW 801 A-0


Source is Monografie Lotnicze 44
 

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hesham

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Hi,


here is the Messerchmitt Bf.109 with a tricycle landing gear,also keeping on the
tail wheel.


Luftfahrt 9/1980
 

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toura

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he Hesham
Messerschmitt bf 109 v 23
landing gear for me 309
Messerschmitt bf 109 v 31
large landing gear for me 309
and radiator for the same
 

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Jemiba

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As principally already can be seen in the photo, the tricyccle landing gear was fixed
and only used for testing the taxying and take-off/landing characteristics for the
Me 309.
 

hesham

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Many thanks to you my dears Toura and Jemiba.
 

hesham

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Hi,


here is a Model for Messerschmitt Bf or Me.109Z aircraft,it was a well known,but
fitted with external big cannon,mounted between the two fuselage in the middle
connected section and below it,is it a real project ?.


Flugzeug Classic 1/2006
 

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hesham

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hesham said:
Hi,


here is a Model for Messerschmitt Bf or Me.109Z aircraft,it was a well known,but
fitted with external big cannon,mounted between the two fuselage in the middle
connected section and below it,is it a real project ?.


Flugzeug Classic 1/2006

Here is the article about Me.109Z with cannon,real or fake ?.
 

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Jemiba

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Not mentioned explicitly, but the heavy anti-tank gun to my opinion is
just the product of the fantasy of the modeller and not mentioned in any
sources.
 

hesham

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Jemiba said:
Not mentioned explicitly, but the heavy anti-tank gun to my opinion is
just the product of the fantasy of the modeller and not mentioned in any
sources.

Thank you my dear Jemiba for your explanation.
 

hesham

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Re: Various Blohm und Voss projects

Hi,


here is the original BV.155 drawing and Models.
 

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hesham

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Re: Re: Various Blohm und Voss projects

Hi,


here is a Model for BV.155B aircraft.
 

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hesham

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Hi,


here is a drawing to Bf.109 with DB 628 engine,and a wings to different Bf.109
variants.
 

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hesham

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From Flugzeuge Classic 9/2012,

here is the Messerschmitt Bf.109 H-2 & H-3 projects.
 

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hesham

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hesham said:
here is a Model for Messerschmitt Bf or Me.109Z aircraft,it was a well known,but
fitted with external big cannon,mounted between the two fuselage in the middle
connected section and below it,is it a real project ?.

Flugzeug Classic 1/2006

My dear Jemiba,


it seemed to be that,the Messerschmitt Bf.109Z was a real project,here is a more info
about it from the book; Secret Nazi Aircraft 1939 -1945 Luftwaffe's Advanced Aircraft Projects
 

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hesham

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From the book; Die Deutsche Luftruestung 1933-1945 - Vol.3 - Henschel-Messerschmitt (Bernard&Graefe)


the Messerschmitt Bf.109Z was a real design,and there is two versions,Z-1 & Z-2.
 

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sienar

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Technically a DB project, but does anyone have information on the planned fitting of a Merlin engine to a 109 which was contemporary with the messerspitt.
 

blackkite

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Re: Re: Various Blohm und Voss projects

Wow thanks a lot.
BV-155 had to cool powerful turbocharged engine by thin air of high altitude. Therefore a very huge radiator was needed.
This radiator position reduce wing root bending moment generated by wing lift force and bring some structural merit to reduce weight?
But moment of inertia around roll axis become large and reduce roll rate.

http://mundosgm.com/aereo/blohm-voss-bv-155/

BV-155C-0/1 had a another shape. Intercooler was located behind the pilot.
Enormous front air intake is for radiator, oilcooler, turbocharger and intercooler.
BV-155C-1 was a BV-155 final version? But BV-155C-1 weight is heavy compared with BV-155B-1. Why?
 

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blackkite

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Re: Re: Various Blohm und Voss projects

Hi! BV-155.

http://www.zona-militar.com/foros/threads/blohm-voss-bv-155.14782/
 

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blackkite

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Wiki says that...
"It was first proposed on 22 January 1943 at an RLM conference; at the time only three prototypes of the Me 262 had been completed. The Bf 109TL would be a backup if the Me 262 did not come to production or as a second fighter to operate alongside the Me 262.

In order to reduce development time, various components from previous aircraft were to be used. The fuselage was to come from the Bf 109H/BV 155B high-altitude fighter (with a new nose and tail section), the wing was from the Me 409 project and the tricycle undercarriage came from the Me 309. The powerplant would be the same Junkers Jumo 004B-1 turbojet (900 kgf thrust) or BMW 003A (800 kgf).

The basic armament was to be two 20 mm MG 151/20 cannons (with 120 rpg) and two MK 103 cannons mounted in the nose. An additional proposal was two 30 mm (1.18 in) MK 108 cannons to be installed in the wing roots. The pilot cockpit used in the prototypes was the same as utilized in the Bf 109E/G types.

The performance was estimated to be possibly better than the Me 262 due to the Bf 109TL's narrower fuselage, a product of the design for a high-speed high-altitude fighter. The Bf 109TL received intensive research. By March 1943, it was decided that many other modifications to components would be needed and the project was abandoned in order to concentrate on the Me 262 project."
 

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