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McDonnell-Douglas F-15 Projects

overscan

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Thread to discuss F-15 based projects.

Discussion of early F-15 development should go Here instead.
 
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overscan

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In the late 1970s, the RAF considered acquisition of the F-15 as an alternative to Tornado ADV. The RAF F-15 would have been fitted with the long range Marconi Foxhunter radar.

Sources
  • F-15s for the Royal Air Force? Flight International, 9 Sept 1978 p935
 

TinWing

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At one point, it was proposed that the UK should "lease" 80 F-15s between 1981 and 1985 as a "stopgap" until the Tornado ADV reached service.
 

Sentinel Chicken

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I also seem to recall at one point a proposal for a tailess or v-tailed version of the F-15 that would have been an interim type pending arrival of the F-22 Raptor.
 

elmayerle

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I've seen various designations for this variant, but Deino posted an artist conception out of Flight and a top view over on another forum.

Now, some of the other variants were flown in mockup form on the prototypes McAir kept for test/chase purposes (probably, IMHO, some of the more aesthetically pleasing schemes). Peek Eagle carrying a conformal recce pallet and a Wild Weasel variant with a HARM targetting sensor faired in under the nose, very similar to a EF-4G's are at least two of those.
 

Deino

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elmayerle said:
I've seen various designations for this variant, but Deino posted an artist conception out of Flight and a top view over on another forum.
This one !?! ... the first is this supposed advanced version ... and the second and third - I think "one step back" - the suggested F-15U with a new wing which could be re-installed !

And the 4th picture shows some earlier suggested versions !

Cheers, Deino
 

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overscan

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The F-15 Eagle will be able to carry the 30mm rotary barrel General Electric GAU-8/A cannon for ground attack in the wing root in place of the current General Electric M61, in a centreline pod or in the conformal fuselage pallets. If the wing root position is adopted, the GAU-8/A linear ammunition feed will be changed to belt feed in order to utilise the existing ammunition bays.
Air International April 1976
 

elmayerle

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That centerline pod sounds like the GPU-5A "Gepod 30". You'd have to make the same changes to the ammo feed if you tried to install the GAU-8A in the F-16, for that matter.
 

overscan

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I quite like the idea of putting the GAU-8A in the Strike Eagle, though operationally it makes little sense. I would have expected the GAU-8A would require significantly more space than the M61 however.
 

elmayerle

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The cannon itself wouldn't require inordinately more volume, but the ammo would either require rather more volume or you'd have significantly fewer rounds. The 30mm round the GAU-8A uses is rather larger than the 20mm round the M61 uses.
 

Dronte

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Here it is a 80's drawing of the version STOL the F-15.

Does somebody have a picture of the gun originally foreseen for the F-15, the GAU7, that it used caseless ammunition? I have understood that it was a gun gatling type of 5 tubes but I have never seen an image.
 

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sferrin

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Matej said:
STOL?? Here is the way how to start.... ;D
I could swear I've seen pictures of them testing something like that with an F-101 VooDoo of all things.
 

sferrin

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Matej said:
Dronte said:
Does somebody have a picture of the gun originally foreseen for the F-15, the GAU7, that it used caseless ammunition?
Only munition...
Anybody remember telescopic ammunition that was suppose to be the next big thing back in the late 80's?
 

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RP1

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"Anybody remember telescopic ammunition that was suppose to be the next big thing back in the late 80's?"

It still is, in 40mm form as a replacement for the 30mm cannons that arm a lot of current IFVs.

Remember that all defence development in the late 80s took a funding hit at the end of the Cold War, so lack of development since then doesn't mean it is a bad idea...

RP1
 

sferrin

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Never said it was a bad idea. At one point it was thought the ATF (F-22) would be using it. ISTR the muzzle velocity was quite a bit higher than the normal round. It just seemed to fall off the radar all of a sudden. . . no pun intended ;D Also they had done some work with guided ammunition and had tested down to 40mm. It used tiny side thrusters very much like the ASAT (ASM-135) kill vehicle. That also seems to have left the scene.
 

elmayerle

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Well, the ASAT missile has been pretty well stopped by Congressional mandate, though I wouldn't be surprised to find out that they're stockpiled somewhere "just in case". But that same thruster tech is used by the KEI warheads for ABM work.
 

sferrin

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You seem to have misunderstood what I said. There are basically three or four different types of divert motor setups. 1. Solid propellant in which the exhaust is piped to nozzles on the CG. 2. Same as 1 but liquid fueled. 3. Shotgun shell shaped single burst motors oriented perpendicularly to the centerline. 4. Long, thin cylindrical motors with the nozzle at the midpoint, motor case parallel to the vehicle centerline with the nozzle oriented perpendicularly.

1 - Used by SM-3's MKV and THAAD
2 - Used by GBI KKV
3 - PAC-3
4 - ASM-135's KKV and the guided munitions I was referring to.

I'm just wondering what happened to that type of ammunition (ASAT was killed years ago). They'd been testing it with 40mm shells and said it was scalable from 20mm all the way to 16"
 

Sentinel Chicken

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sferrin said:
Matej said:
Dronte said:
Does somebody have a picture of the gun originally foreseen for the F-15, the GAU7, that it used caseless ammunition?
Only munition...

Anybody remember telescopic ammunition that was suppose to be the next big thing back in the late 80's?
Not all telescoping munitions are caseless, right? At least from the caseless standpoint there were problems with clearing out gun jams (since I think the breech is sealed) and there were issues with heat transfer during rapid fire (a normal gun the heat is removed via the spent casing).
 

TinWing

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Sundog said:
Here's the F-15XX

Single seater with wingtip missile launchers and an extended wing span?

What is the vintage of this proposal? Any details?
 

Sundog

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I would have to say it's from the 80's, because that's when I was reading Flight alot. That's an image I clipped out, I didn't save the magazine, so I can't be precise on the date.
 

Matej

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TinWing said:
What is the vintage of this proposal? Any details?
The simpliest as it can be written - In MDD were lazy people that didnt want to design ATF, so they proposed this super improved F-15 as an alternative.
 

sferrin

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Matej said:
TinWing said:
What is the vintage of this proposal? Any details?
The simpliest as it can be written - In MDD were lazy people that didnt want to design ATF, so they proposed this super improved F-15 as an alternative.
I don't think it was lazy, afterall money is money. I think it was a couple of things. First off with stealth being important that put them at a significant disadvantage. Secondly the F-15 is business they already had so why not work to keep it? Third the ATF program was by no means a sure thing after the Soviet Union collapsed. I mean even with the world being what it is today the USAF is having to fight tooth and nail just to get 180 F-22s. Another thing to consider is that if that drawing dates from AFTER the ATF down select (and I would be surprised if it doesn't) it could be McD trying to get business back. I've NEVER heard of a company not wanting to pursue a program out of LAZINESS. If anything they go to the customer trying to interest them in programs.
 

Matej

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I know, I just used a bit of sarcasm. Its something like "Why to develop new fighter when you already have our very good product? We just improve it and you dont need to do anything (except payment)."
 

Sundog

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Speaking of which, this weeks Aviation Week has an article on the proposed Boeing F-15E+, with features of the F-15K and F-15SG, with an Raytheon APG-63(v)3 or (V)4 AESA RADAR JIC the F-35 gets cut back or delayed.
 

MIRAGE 4000

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Bonjour !

I read in Mc Donnell Douglas F-15 story by D.Jenkins that the F-15B (71-291) "was flight testbed with an aerodynamics pod under under its nose, vaguely reminiscent of the F-4G chin pod".
Have you any information on this program ?
A Wild Weasel F-15 was launched ?

Thanks
 

elmayerle

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The picture book, "Soaring Eagles" has some pictures of this flight test configuration. Various Wild Weasel versions of the F-15 have been proposed, but not taken up.

I'll see if I can scan those photos later this week.
 

sferrin

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Back in the day when CFTs were referred to as FAST (Fuel And Sensor Tactical) packs they'd planned on using them for all kinds of things. I'd heard ideas kicked around such as Vulcans at the front of each, jamming them full of ECM gear like a Prowler or Sparkvark, and even liquid rockets for short takeoffs. Sounds like something to research now that I think about it. Anybody else have any info on them?
 

Antonio

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I'll see if I can scan those photos later this week.
Please :)

I'd love to see a pic of this bird
 

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There was several Pic´s about one of teh F-15 prototypes that have four underwing stores, in the external ones they have 2 Agm-88 Harm...

There was severeal projects for make a F-15 wild weased, in the 80´s, for give him a second mission when the F-22 arrives... (remember I´m talking about the inicial intention for more than 600 F-22)... one of them was named F-15 PDF


1Saludo
 

MIRAGE 4000

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No photos of the F-15B (71-291) "Wild Weasel" testbed ? ;)
 

overscan

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71-291 was equipped as the RF-15 "Peek Eagle", it was also turned into the F-15E prototype. In between, it might have tested theWild Weasel gear. I'm sure I've seen a picture but couldn't find it in any of my books.
 

MIRAGE 4000

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I saw it many years ago. I dont remember where ;D
 

Mercurius Cantabrigiensis

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In 1985 McDonnell Douglas was awarded a contract by the USAF Aeronautical Systems Division to look as the F-15E as a potential Wild Weasel. The company has already test-flown an F-4G APR-38 radome under the chin of an F-15B. Work on integrating the Wild Weasel avionics into a new airframe was expected to take place in the early 1990s, but the project was abandoned.
 

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The F-15U's modified wing was modified to improve aerodynamic performance and stealth characteristics right?

Kendra Lesnick
 
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