German Atomic Bombs in WW2

[edwest4]

The usual nonsense. Get a copy of Atomversuche in Deutschland by Günter Nagel. He gives brief information about the many competent scientists involved in the German atomic project. One page has a reproduction of a document from the Alsos Mission. They had found a report that gave the status of the German Atomic Project as of January 1945. Specific mention is made of "successful pile experiments," and where. Then get a copy of Critical Mass by Carter Hydrick. IG Farben had the necessary expertise to enrich uranium.

 

[Jemiba]

Good clue, the book by Günter Nagel was unknown to me, but in the scientific magazine Spektrum, a quite
comprehensive summary was published in 2016 :
( https://www.spektrum.de/rezension/buchkritik-zu-das-geheime-deutsche-uranprojekt-1939-1945/1434297 )
According to this, from 1942 onwards the German research in the field of splitting of the atom actually was
more efficient, than before, because responsibility had been tranferred from the Heereswaffenamt to the
Reichsforschungsrat (research council of the German Reich). So, at the end of WWII in Europe, German scientists
had been able to correct some of the proposals by Heisenberg and build a test arrangement, that actually allowed
a low multiplication of neutrons, although it remained strictly undercritical, so that there never was a working, critical
nuclear reactor in Germany until the end of the war.
If Covid allows, I'll get this book from the States library at the beginning of next year !

 

[edwest4]

The IG Farben Buna Werke at Oświęcim, Poland, produced no synthetic rubber during the war. It was a joint Army-Luftwaffe-SS project. There were construction delays and other problems even though IG Farben had done this sort of work before (Critical Mass by Hydrick). It was a uranium enrichment facility and guarded by heavy flak. In Polish:

Niemieckie ciężkie baterie przeciwlotnicze wokół Oświęcimia


https://www.amazon.com/Niemieckie-ci...s&sr=1-1-fkmr0

Book has 413 pages, 315 pictures

Simplified Table of Contents
1. Development of anti-aircraft defense
2. Bombing raids
3. Reconnaisance missions
4. German heavy anti-aircraft batteries
5. General operating principles
(Kommandogerate, Funkmessgerat, Malsi, Gun)
6. Assembly of heavy guns (wooden and concrete base)
7. Battery command post (wooden and concrete version)
8. Radars
9. Characteristics of heavy anti-aircraft guns
10. Prisoners
11. German expansion plans


There were three projects. One under the HWA, the Reichspost and the SS.

​

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

There's no evidence that U-234 carried anything other than Uranium oxide, but Hydrick seems to suggest it was enriched. The quantity carried (540kg) would have been enough after processing for 3.5kg of fissile material or about 20% of what was required for a bomb. Interesting, but hardly significant, and there is no evidence they had the facilities to process it or possessed enough uranium oxide for the other 80% of the bomb, nor the facilities to process that.

 

[edwest4]

The enriched uranium carried by U-234 was in gold-lined cylinders. Another key figure in the German atomic project was Manfred von Ardenne. He was part of the Reichspost. Hydrick writes: "By April 1942, Ardenne also had in his laboratory a completed magnetic isotope separator not unlike the calutrons of Ernest Lawrence, which General Groves would not deploy at Oak Ridge for another year-and-a-half. Ardenne had designed the separator in 1940, barely on the heels of the discovery of a possible fission explosion."

Mr. Hydrick also viewed the actual US uranium processing documents and they showed that the US would not be able to produce enough enriched uranium in time for the bomb that was to be dropped. The other problem faced by the Americans was suitable fusing. A cyclotron had been seized by the Germans in Paris. Aside from the uranium seized in Belgium, there was a supply in France. "Not long afterward, new information was obtained concerning the uranium ore that had been sent to France: the serial numbers of the seven railway cars that had hauled it away. That clue led to an arsenal in Toulouse, in southern France. Equipped with Geiger counters, Alsos members were able to discover thirty-one tons of the material, about three railcars' worth, in a warehouse. Pash arranged for it to be hauled away to Marseilles by a special truck convoy with combat support. They would never find the remaining four cars' worth." From, Spying on the Bomb by Jeffrey T. Richelson.

 

[Jemiba]

Germany was working on nuclear weapons, but as Nagel's book explains (seem to explain, I still only know
that linked summary), that work was ineffective until 1942, at least partially due to quarrels between the involved
organisations and persons. There was some progress then, that led to a working, but not weapon-grade installation.
That seems to be the proven state of knowledge. The theme has produced public interest, especially after the German
reunification, as now some areas could be explored, that were more or less inaccessible before. And though there
were some headlines in the boulevard press about "sensational discoveries, that would change history", in the end
there was nothing, with regards to successful tests, or test sites.
If Germany would have had more, probably much more time to work on that field, and that means working
undisturbed (!), those scientists involved certainly could have designed a working nuclear bomb. How long
it would have taken then to actually build it, is just another matter ...
With the occupation of Germany all contemplable locations were investigated, because there still was the fear,
that Germanys research was more advanced, than it actually was, and the resources found, probably were included
into the allied stockpile, leading in some German circles to the question today, if Germany so wasn't responsible in
a way for the destruction of Hiroshima and Nagasaki ...
But without going to a 1946-, or rather 1947, 48, ... 50-What-If scenario I see no reason to believe in the famous
"German A-bomb", especially not, if we count in the actual proceeding of the war back then.

 

[Zoo Tycoon]

The quantity carried (540kg) would have been enough after processing for 3.5kg of fissile material or about 20% of what was required for a bomb. Interesting, but hardly significant, and there is no evidence they had the facilities to process it or possessed enough uranium oxide for the other 80% of the bomb, nor the facilities to process that.

The more recent work suggests Little Boy’s pit contained 64kg of HEU so the figure will be more like 5%..... of course assuming it was yellow cake.
Ref Atom Bombs:The top secret inside story of little Boy and Fat Man by John Coster-Mullen

With U-boat U234, I’ve never understood the relevance of the “gold lined HEU dioxide containers”, as far as I know it’s unnecessary. Gold plate is used on the metallic U235 pits but that’s to stop oxidation;- a bit too late for an oxide. Anything coming out of the dioxide isn’t so bad and much better contained with lead or Beryllium if you we’re concerned which nobody else is. Unless there’s documentary evidence it feels like someone’s fiction in trying to big up the importance of the cargo.

I remember stories from the early eighties that a small quantity (in the tens of grams class) of Nazi produced HEU had recently turned up in Italy. From memory it was found at a university and was suspected as being smuggled there shortly after 45. Any further information on this would be appreciated.

I’ve read elsewhere that there was some really efficient separation machines found in Germany but several orders of magnitude too small to have made any difference. Remember the Zippe centrifuge, prefected about 1950, is often quoted as coming from Gernot Zippe, Fritz Lange and Max Steenbeck who were Germans (/Austrian), with Fritz working on it during WW2.

 

[edwest4]

I will only add that Hydrick's book reproduces original documents relevant to US production of enriched uranium and the stated importance, at the time, of the enriched uranium carried by U-234. Later, so-called uranium "fuel rods" were simply hollow tubes made of zirconium and filled with uranium slugs. Enriched uranium is highly corrosive. The Germans had developed a material to prevent corrosion in their ultracentrifuges. (Hydrick.)

 

[Zoo Tycoon]

“Enrichment uranium is highly corrosive”

Ah no;- It’s a metal which readily corrodes. Uranium dioxide is pretty inert, if toxic and only mildly radioactive. In order to use in a gas centrifuge it it has to be reacted with fluorine to produce a hexafluoride which is then highly corrosive. HEU is regularly stored in a fluoride state because of the difficultly/cost of conversion (requires ultra purity calcium);- Another reason to doubt the story of U234 cargo being enriched.

 

[edwest4]

“Enrichment uranium is highly corrosive”

Ah no;- It’s a metal which readily corrodes. Uranium dioxide is pretty inert, if toxic and only mildly radioactive. In order to use in a gas centrifuge it it has to be reacted with fluorine to produce a hexafluoride which is then highly corrosive. HEU is regularly stored in it fluoride state because of the difficultly/cost of conversion (requires ultra purity calcium);- Another reason to doubt the story of U234 cargo being enriched.

You cite no references for your claims.

 

[Zoo Tycoon]

Uranium metal -

Uranium (U) - Chemical properties, Health and Environmental effects

chemical properties, health and environmental effects of uranium

www.lenntech.com

Uranium Dioxide- https://pubchem.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/compound/Uranium-dioxide#section=GHS-Classification

Uranium hexafluoride-

ICSC 1250 - URANIUM HEXAFLUORIDE

 

[royabulgaf]

I wonder how many projects over the last few years, were just for show, keeping staff out of the front line and safe. It strikes me quite a lot were just paper shuffling rather than realistic projects for the time. I would at least like to have that thought for the day.

I suspect that many zanny Notzi Wonder-weapon concepts were published simply because they were captured.
WALLIED propagansists were eager to publish then just to demonstrate how desperate and crazy Notzis were.

Meanwhile the UK, USA, USSR, etc. toyed with similar concepts but never revealed their archives. Some WALLIED concepts like the canard Curtiss Ascender were as bungled as the Japanese Shinden canard.

Remember, the captured material includes designs ranging from the sketch-on-a-beer napkin to prototype. Allied aeronautic firms had the luxury of throwing that stuff away, turning mockups into firewood, etc. and showing the public onlh what theywanted to show. Like doctors, they could bury their mistakes. Then too, you have the "Luftwaffe '47" projects like von Braun's A-9 and A-10 projects, and the Reggiane jet fighter. Stuff that was "designed" post war and backdated to enhance resumes'.

 

[royabulgaf]

The IG Farben Buna Werke at Oświęcim, Poland, produced no synthetic rubber during the war. It was a joint Army-Luftwaffe-SS project. There were construction delays and other problems even though IG Farben had done this sort of work before (Critical Mass by Hydrick). It was a uranium enrichment facility and guarded by heavy flak. In Polish:

Niemieckie ciężkie baterie przeciwlotnicze wokół Oświęcimia


https://www.amazon.com/Niemieckie-ci...s&sr=1-1-fkmr0

Book has 413 pages, 315 pictures

Simplified Table of Contents
1. Development of anti-aircraft defense
2. Bombing raids
3. Reconnaisance missions
4. German heavy anti-aircraft batteries
5. General operating principles
(Kommandogerate, Funkmessgerat, Malsi, Gun)
6. Assembly of heavy guns (wooden and concrete base)
7. Battery command post (wooden and concrete version)
8. Radars
9. Characteristics of heavy anti-aircraft guns
10. Prisoners
11. German expansion plans


There were three projects. One under the HWA, the Reichspost and the SS.
The Reichspost? The German Post Office was seeking nuclear weapons? Even by German standards that is quite some mission creep.

​

 

[Justo Miranda]

A comfortable majority of historians agree that the Germans scientists did not have either the uranium or the resources or required quantum faith to manufacture a SINGLE nuclear bomb. They also lacked the courage to suggest to the Führer that the resources being used to manufacture the V-weapons were assigned to an artefact that, in spite of the theory, might not work as expected.

Although some communist scientists of the Manhattan Project candidly informed the Soviets of their advances, the Germans did not know anything, Hiroshima would be a huge surprise for the Reich scientists when they already were prisoners in England.

 

[DWG]

Hiroshima would be a huge surprise for the Reich scientists when they already were prisoners in England.

Absolutely. Read 'The Farm Hall Transcripts'.

 

[edwest4]

The usual fiction. A lack of analysis here.

 

[GK Dundas]

I have long held that the German atomic bomb project was wildly successful when you understand that it was never about development of a weapon.
But was an attempt to prevent military age engineers from ending up in the infantry replacement pool on the Eastern Front.

 

[DWG]

The usual fiction. A lack of analysis here.

Considering The Farm Hall Transcripts are the declassified original intelligence take from listening in on ten of Germany's top nuclear physicists/chemists, including Werner Heisenberg and Otto Hahn, while they were interned at Farm Hall during 1945, branding them 'fiction' and accusing people of a lack of analysis seems a little ripe. The transcripts specifically cover their surprise on the announcement of the Hiroshima bombing.

 

[edwest4]

The German atomic project was compartmentalized as was the American version. The Reichspost was the cover for work undertaken by Manfred von Ardenne. Reichspostminister Wilhelm Ohnesorge had a working relationship with Heinrich Himmler. Although Werner Heisenberg did important work, other key scientists received little mention. Among them are Prof. Dr. Gerhard Borrmann, Prof. Dr. Abraham Esau, Prof. Dr. Georg Carl Friedrich Hartwig, Prof. Dr. Nikolaus Riehl and Dr. Werner Czulius. Von Ardenne was captured by the Russians and his laboratory equipment was confiscated. He and others were put to work on completing a Russian atomic bomb.

The Americans called their first nuclear reactor, Chicago Pile-1 (CP-1) and successfully initiated a chain reaction. The Germans had done the same according to an Alsos document dated 2 May 1945. It refers to "successful pile experiments." It gives dates, places and names. One set of names is (Diebner-Hartwig-Berkei). The Alsos team had found a report "... which gives the status of the project as of January 1945."

 

[Zoo Tycoon]

So the Haigerloch B8 criticality experiment (https://www.haigerloch.de/de/Tourismus/Atomkellermuseum) , which in April 45 was fundamentally flawed, ie not enough Uranium, or no enriched Uranium or no neutron reflector, is a complete mystery because in another part of Germany, Diebner-Hartwig-Berkei had achieved critically months before ? Indeed construction of B8 commenced after January 45 so at a time of scares resources, why build something that you know won’t work? If they had significant quantities of enriched Uranium why didn’t they use it at Haigerloch?

To me the evidence from B8 clearly illustrates they didn’t understand criticality, much as Fermi didn’t when he commenced his work on CP1. He and his team built, tore down and rebuilt a slightly adjusted CP1 (or elements of it) twenty nine times before he got it to work. CP1 was well suited to rapid assembly and disassemble whereas B8 wasn’t.

If Diebner-Hartwig-Berkei had achieved criticality there would be evidence even today. Once reacted, this stuff just doesn’t go away, is a nightmare to handle and has unique long lasting signatures which are easily detectable. So what happened to it and why can’t someone point a giger counter at a piece of ground in Germany and say “there it is”? No one’s has because it didn’t happen.

Anyway, criticality experiments are far removed from plutonium production, in that they only produced trace quantities of actinides. To get anything useful, several reactors each of a different order of magnitude is required. So it’s of no consequence.

As for the claim of half a ton of U235 oxide on the U-boat;- if true it would present a significantly lethal handling problem as without the supervision from very scarce experts it would result in prompt criticality (PC) killing anyone in the locality. This would be particularly severe given the secrecy and available knowledge at the time.

Prompt criticality - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Gold won’t stop it as it’s neutron cross section is too low. Even if mildly enriched U238 (10%+) it has the potential to be lethal when handled incorrectly ;- https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tokaimura_nuclear_accident

- This occurred at only 18.8 % enrichment with just a few tens of kilograms of material.

Where is the prima facie evidence the cargo was U235 oxide, or even enriched as opposed to regular uranium oxide with half a percent U235?

Any objective examination of the handling problems would rule out this cargo as being anything other than benign. Again it strikes me as fiction embellished from a simple act of transporting normal Uranium oxide.

If the Uranium blocks recovered from Haigerloch had been enriched then the pile of them in the picture would have PC’d and killed all those standing around.

 

[DWG]

The German atomic project was compartmentalized as was the American version.

The compartmentalization claim doesn't work because of Heisenberg and Hahn. Heisenberg had already won the 1932 Nobel, Hahn would win it in 1945. Heisenberg was the high concept man you would need for the theory, not to involve him would be mind-bogglingly stupid. Hahn was the chemist and fission expert you would need for enrichment work, not involving him would delay weaponisation for years. And both were high ranking officials within the army's nuclear weapons programme, so clearance wasn't an issue.

Not involving Heisenberg and Hahn is like trying to run the Manhattan Project without Oppenheimer and Fermi.

Compartmentalization also doesn't work because of Diebner, who you're effectively citing as a member of the bomb project, yet who was at Farm Hall. He can't be both a member of the bomb project and unaware of it. If he'd achieved full criticality do you seriously expect us to believe he spent months at Farm Hall not telling his professional peers precisely that, especially as Germany had already surrendered and it would elevate his achievements to rival those of Heisenberg and Hahn. And it would also have elevated his profile post-war when he ran a company promoting nuclear power for maritime use.

'Successful pile experiments' does not imply criticality, the German pile experiments achieved chain reactions, which was a significant success, and refined design concepts, but all of those are achievable without criticality. Criticality would have been a major step beyond that and would have been identified as such by Alsos.

 

[edwest4]

"Subject: Investigations, Research, Developments, and Practical Use of the German Atomic Bomb." Practical use means practical use.

"Issued by the Intelligence Division
Office of Chief of Naval Operations
Navy Department
Intelligence Report

"From COMNAVEU at London, England. Date 24 January 1946.

"Source: Official - British/U.S."

Stamped Top Secret

 

[Zoo Tycoon]

The practical use part of this report details four individuals who claim to have witnessed a nuclear explosion at Ludwigslust (South of Lübeck) in late 1944.

“However, Mr Karlsch’s theory was discredited by Gerald Kirchner of Germany’s Federal Office for Radiation Protection. In a Der Spiegel report, Mr Kirchner says that soil sample readings at the detonation sites show “no indication of the explosion of an atomic bomb.”

If it happened there would be hot Trinitite still at the site and easily detectable.

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

This isn't evidence. This is speculation and hearsay.

 

[edwest4]

The location does not conceal the title of the report. Practical use means practical use. The use of the words "German Atomic Bomb" in a top secret intelligence report means that the interrogation produced information consistent with the detonation of an atom bomb.

 

[RyanC]

In February 1942, the German Army Ordnance Group of scientists wrote a comprehensive report titled Energiegewinnung aus Uran, and it was 144 pages long, detailing what had gone on since 1939.

I'd like to find a copy somewhere, so I'm reposting it here.

Anyway, the big reason things went nowhere is the initial calculations regarding fissile critical mass.

The Frisch-Pierls Memorandums on an Atomic "Super-Bomb" (March 1940)

Quick Primer​

With the Fall of France, some expatriate German physicists named Otto Frisch and Rudolf Peierls ended up working at the University of Birmingham. Because they were enemy aliens, they couldn't be put to work on any of the top secret stuff, like for example RADAR, so they were used on miscellaneous odd jobs.

When Tizard's Committee began to look into the feasibility of an atomic bomb, Tizard had two teams investigate:

• Sir George P. Thomson's Team at Imperial College, London. They tried to make a chain reaction in natural uranium and failed, and said “nope”. Ironically, Thompson would later chair the MAUD Committee that concluded an atomic bomb was feasible.
• Mark Oliphant's Team at University of Birmingham. Frisch and Peierls were on this team.

Originally, Peierls used the properties of natural uranium, and ended up with 40,000 kg as a critical mass; and if a neutron reflector was used, this mass fell to 12,000 kg. But what changed things was when Frisch wondered... “what if we used pure uranium?” and plugged hypothetical numbers for pure uranium into Peierls' equations...and got about 1 kg as suitable for a critical mass.

Following this revelation, Frisch and Pierls wrote two memorandums, both of which ended up on Tizard's desk by 19 March 1940; with the second memorandum containing this passage:

In the metallic state (density 15), and assuming a fission cross-section of 10-23 cm2, the mean free path would be 2.6 cm and γ0 would be 2.1 cm, corresponding to a mass of 600 grams. A sphere of metallic 235U of a radius greater than γ0 would be explosive, and one might think of about 1 kg as suitable size for a bomb.

That single thing moved an atomic bomb into "actually feasible war winning weapon".

If it had remained a 40 tonne critical mass bomb, nobody would have spent the money to develop it, particularly with an estimated yield of only 1,800 tonnes TNT (the early MAUD estimates); it would have been like the mine explosions in WWI, of little military use.

By reducing the critical mass to about 1 kg (over optimistic) it made it feasible that a complete weapon could fit in a single heavy bomber, and thus funding was unleashed.

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

The location does not conceal the title of the report. Practical use means practical use. The use of the words "German Atomic Bomb" in a top secret intelligence report means that the interrogation produced information consistent with the detonation of an atom bomb.

You should watch the film "The Invention of Lying". Its about a man who discovers it is possible to say things which aren't actually true. Astoundingly, some people have mastered this skill, and it's conceivable that Germans were in possession of this capability.

Have you considered actually reading the report? That might be more interesting than speculation from the title.

 

[edwest4]

From the Deutsches Museum site:

ALSOS Mission

At the beginning of 1945, the US military and American researchers knew practically nothing about the state of nuclear research in Germany. With America itself working intensively to create an atomic bomb, the same was thought to be true of Germany. The aim of the military officers and scientists who made up the ALSOS task force was to gather information on the German nuclear programme, capture top research scientists and seize important equipment, thus ultimately preventing the deployment of an atomic weapon. By the end of 1945, the task force had essentially fulfilled its mission.

Key words: "... preventing the deployment of an atomic weapon."

 

[edwest4]

The location does not conceal the title of the report. Practical use means practical use. The use of the words "German Atomic Bomb" in a top secret intelligence report means that the interrogation produced information consistent with the detonation of an atom bomb.

You should watch the film "The Invention of Lying". Its about a man who discovers it is possible to say things which aren't actually true. Astoundingly, some people have mastered this skill, and it's conceivable that Germans were in possession of this capability.

Have you considered actually reading the report? That might be more interesting than speculation from the title.

The report is quite clear. The detonation was described and it fit the observed characteristics of an atom bomb blast.

 

[Zoo Tycoon]

The evidence from the recent ground examination is clear;- there were no findings of radiology fission products. It’s therefore inescapable that no fission took place and the observers were mistaken or fabricating accounts.

Although I’ve only read sections of your referenced report, it’s widely reported that it concludes no such test took place. Presenting a small section of a report as proof, when it overall conclusion is quite different, and not mentioning the conclusion? I suggest these reports should be presented openly without cherry picking.

 

[Hobbes]

The location does not conceal the title of the report. Practical use means practical use. The use of the words "German Atomic Bomb" in a top secret intelligence report means that the interrogation produced information consistent with the detonation of an atom bomb.

That isn't how language works.

Subject: Investigations, Research, Developments, and Practical Use of the German Atomic Bomb.

This is the subject of the report: i.e. the task they were given: to find out the state of German bomb research, development, and any plans they had for practical use.
A prudent organization would start working on plans for practical use of their bomb long before the first bomb is finished, so any development could take place in parallel. Aircraft would have to be modified, targets decided on etc.
Certainly back then, titles were chosen to be descriptive: this is what the report is about. If you want to find out what the report concluded, read the conclusion because that information is not included in the title.

The use of the words "German Atomic Bomb" in a top secret intelligence report means that the interrogation produced information consistent with the detonation of an atom bomb.

Again, that's not how language works. You need the words "German Atomic Bomb" to describe what this intelligence mission was about: to find out if there was a "German Atomic Bomb" project, who worked on it and where, how it was organized etc. These 3 words don't say anything about how far along the Germans were. They had been working on an atomic bomb since what, 1940? All that time the project would have been referred to (by foreign intelligence agencies) as the "German Atomic Bomb" project.

 

[Justo Miranda]

And what about non-conventional explosives? As for the tests performed in Rügener Island in October 1944, they might have well been on a fuel-air bomb designed to disable the Allies ‘boxes’ of bombers. The spray was formed by different combinations of coal powder, hydrogen, ethylene, petrol, Butan-Propane 50/50 and the Myrol compound based on vinylic ethers and aluminium powder.

According to the report by Hans Zinster, the pilot of a Heinkel He 111 observing the effects of the test, the explosion caused severe electrical disturbances that made radio communication impossible. It has been suggested that this could be an electromagnetic pulse (EMP) that completely disabled Berlin's telephone network for 60 hours by affecting even communications with Sweden.

 

[Zoo Tycoon]

EMP requires a nuclear detonation within the high ionosphere.

As far as I know surface explosion at the Nevada test site had no electrical, or telephone outage or RF effect on nearby Las Vegas. A mushroom cloud indicates a surface or low altitude burst.

There’s no mushroom cloud with a EMP burst so it doesn’t fit with what was seen.

 

[Harry64]

And what about non-conventional explosives? As for the tests performed in Rügener Island in October 1944, they might have well been on a fuel-air bomb designed to disable the Allies ‘boxes’ of bombers. The spray was formed by different combinations of coal powder, hydrogen, ethylene, petrol, Butan-Propane 50/50 and the Myrol compound based on vinylic ethers and aluminium powder.

According to the report by Hans Zinster, the pilot of a Heinkel He 111 observing the effects of the test, the explosion caused severe electrical disturbances that made radio communication impossible. It has been suggested that this could be an electromagnetic pulse (EMP) that completely disabled Berlin's telephone network for 60 hours by affecting even communications with Sweden.

Justo,

do you have nearer infos about these tests in Rügen. Dimensions of this bomb?

 

[Justo Miranda]

Sorry, nothing best

As per some authors, the gases derived from the Myrol combustion were toxic and violated the Geneva Convention agreements, something that the Germans of 1945 could not afford, having their own cities exposed to hundreds of Allied bombers.

The same reasons are valid for the 50 tons of N-Stoff, the inextinguishable fire of the SS, which had been manufactured by the end of the war in Europe, and for the nerve-gases (15,000 tons of Tabun and over 100,000 aircraft bombs of Soman) that were never used against the Allies. If they would, the phosphor bombs that the RAF Lancasters dropped every night over German towns would have changed its contents by anthrax spores!

 

[Justo Miranda]

EMP requires a nuclear detonation within the high ionosphere.

As far as I know surface explosion at the Nevada test site had no electrical, or telephone outage or RF effect on nearby Las Vegas. A mushroom cloud indicates a surface or low altitude burst.

There’s no mushroom cloud with a EMP burst so it doesn’t fit with what was seen.

Wiki

Non-nuclear electromagnetic pulse (NNEMP)​

Non-nuclear electromagnetic pulse (NNEMP) is a weapon-generated electromagnetic pulse without use of nuclear technology. Devices that can achieve this objective include a large low-inductance capacitor bank discharged into a single-loop antenna, a microwave generator, and an explosively pumped flux compression generator. To achieve the frequency characteristics of the pulse needed for optimal coupling into the target, wave-shaping circuits or microwave generators are added between the pulse source and the antenna. Vircators are vacuum tubes that are particularly suitable for microwave conversion of high-energy pulses.[7]

NNEMP generators can be carried as a payload of bombs, cruise missiles (such as the CHAMP missile) and drones, with diminished mechanical, thermal and ionizing radiation effects, but without the consequences of deploying nuclear weapons.

The range of NNEMP weapons is much less than nuclear EMP. Nearly all NNEMP devices used as weapons require chemical explosives as their initial energy source, producing only 10−6 (one millionth) the energy of nuclear explosives of similar weight.[8] The electromagnetic pulse from NNEMP weapons must come from within the weapon, while nuclear weapons generate EMP as a secondary effect.[9] These facts limit the range of NNEMP weapons, but allow finer target discrimination. The effect of small e-bombs has proven to be sufficient for certain terrorist or military operations.[citation needed] Examples of such operations include the destruction of electronic control systems critical to the operation of many ground vehicles and aircraft.[10][additional citation(s) needed]

The concept of the explosively pumped flux compression generator for generating a non-nuclear electromagnetic pulse was conceived as early as 1951 by Andrei Sakharov in the Soviet Union,[11] but nations kept work on non-nuclear EMP classified until similar ideas emerged in other nations.

 

[Hood]

I know my undergrad history lecturers said not to read every book in the library cover-to-cover but look up the index and read the relevant bits, but wow, just reading the title is taking that a few steps too far!

Too much mythical wishful thinking and reliance on dodgy eyewitnesses.
We might as well claim the He 113 was mass produced because it featured in so many Allied pilots' combat reports;
Or that the Tiger I tank weighed 65 tons, had a 20mm cannon in the rear hull and concrete armour over the front and side from initial Soviet army combat reports in 1943;
Or that the Bulgarians mass produced the Samohodna Batarya tank destroyer armed with a 320mm calibre gun based on spy reports which found their way to CIA;
Or that the Soviets actually mass produced hundreds of Myasischev M-50 Bounders because Western attaches saw dozens of them flying over the May Day parade with their own eyes;
Or that the world is flat because someone on a website says so.

The truth is most people are unreliable witnesses and some are just plain downright liars who are confidence tricksters who desire some form of fame. In a PoW camp, you might want to improve your comfort by telling a few tall tales. As von Braun et al showed, those who had the most talent and potential use got cushy treatment.
The trick is keeping your sense of scepticism well honed and keep a balanced approach and check the facts.


As regards to Ludwigslust event in October 1944; Hans Zissner states the explosion happened after dusk so the flash should have been seen over a large area. Why didn't the locals see it? The Germans had opened the Reiherhorst PoW camp nearby in September 1944 to house US PoWs. One of them might have noticed something...
He would have had a logbook, so why no exact date, only "early October"?
Zissner then states he took off an hour later in a He 111 from Ludwigslust to look at the cloud. Being at least two hours after dusk in October that must be some feat to find a cloud in the dark. He then states P-38s were nearby so he had to fly north. P-38s on nocturnal fighter sweeps that far East? Sounds suspicious too.
We haven't even asked yet why Zissner flying around a nuclear test site and why the Luftwaffe had not declared a NOTAM over the area?
Until 15th October the only units at the airfield at Ludwigslust were nightfighter training units equipped with Bf 109s and Fw 190s, although I. Ergänzungs-Jagdgeschwader 2 formed on 2nd November did have some Bf 110s. So where did his borrowed He 111 come from? A station hack?
Why didn't the airfield send up its own aircraft to investigate? Surely they would have seen this monstrous cloud too and being a nightfighter training unit would probably have had training sorties planned that night.
Sadly Zissner only tells his story on 19 August 1945 after everybody knows exactly what an atomic mushroom cloud looks like. Why hadn't he spilled his momentous story in the three preceding months of his imprisonment?

Luigi Romersa witnessed a test at Rugen on 12 October 1944. A war correspondent supposedly sent by Mussolini and of course with a pocketful of letters of introduction to all the high-ranking Nazis, which obviously works a treat because the Germans have no qualms about letting a foreign pressman watch their test. It would be like de Gaulle sending a newspaper man to the Trinity test site and the guards letting him in because he has a letter saying "Hey Truman its ok, I know this guy".
Apparently an entire village was constructed to flatten with the bomb. A lot of effort if you don't know if it will work or not. Anyhow Rugen is not near Ludwigslust so either the Germans have two bombs or Zissner is lost in his Heinkel.
Curiously, Romersa waits even longer than Zissner before he tells his tale, 1947 to be exact when Mussolini and all those top Nazis on those letters of introduction are dead so no one can corroborate his story.

But that's not all folks.
Soviet spies witness two A-bombs detonated at the barracks at Orhdruf, in south-central Thuringia on 4th March 1945. They also state captured Red Army commissars from nearby Buchenwald had been used as human guinea pigs in the trials. They radio their reports to Moscow and Stalin gets a copy of their report within an hour. Now Uncle Joe was the most sceptical man alive in 1945, one can only imagine him stroking his moustache with mirth while next to him his a stash of detailed technical data from Los Alamos on his desk.
Other reports put the 4th March Orhdruf test as being a single device using 100g of material with a second test on March 12th. It seems strange with so many operational nuclear weapons that seem to be successful that no-one thought to use of them on the advancing Soviet hordes not that far away.

So here we have no less than four bombs witnessed on four separate dates with no hard evidence of any of the claims.
So either Germany had a lot of fissile material laying around and were producing bombs faster than the Manhattan Project could or these claims are bogus. I know which side I'm coming down on.

 

[edwest4]

Dismissal is easy, research is difficult. A captured German scientist who was taken to the United States told his interrogator: "We are enriching uranium." His interrogator did not understand but submitted his report.

 

[Zoo Tycoon]

D....y, research is difficult. A captured German scientist who was taken to the United States told his interrogator: "We are enriching uranium." His interrogator did not understand but submitted his report.

Indeed they were, but what does that mean?

May I suggest you research the statement’s meaning ?

Please allow me to give you a little help.

It’s massive step to think that this means they had a viable nuke.

Enriched Uranium comes in all grades between 0.5-0.8% to 100% and quantities from nano grams to multi tonnes. As proven by Little Boy, for a viable weapon you needed about 64Kg at about 80% U235. Reactor fuel is generally in the range of 3-5%.

For Uranium enrichment the metal must be converted into a gas by a reaction with fluorine. The resulting Uranium hexafluoride which is highly corrosive. In order to use this within the separation plant, all parts in contact need to be either made from Nickel (Ni) or Ni clad (plating doesn’t work). This requires vast quantities of Ni, which is widely recorded as being in desperately short supply in 43-45 Germany. After the Fins supply was cut off, they were bringing Ni in via submarine from Manchuria <ref ASpeer “Inside the Third Riech”>. There was no shortage of Ni in the US (supply from Canada, then the largest producer in the world) and Manhattan still consumed about a fifth of the US’s entire Ni consumption during 1943-4 for just 65Kg of HEU in 45. <ref R Rhodes The making of the A bomb & J Coster-Mullen Atom Bombs:The top secret inside story of little Boy and Fat Man >

As you’re keen to undertake difficult research please find answers to the following;- If Germany really produced ten times the amount of the US, where did the Ni come from? How many submarine trips ? How do you account for Germany not having a Ni cladding capability in 1945? If they came up with a Ni free method why is it not today’s go to method?

To me, the lack of any enriched uranium in the Haigerloch B8 criticality experiment is comprehensive evidence that they didn’t have kg quantities, even in the 3-5% range. It would have been instrumental in this experiment being rapidly and successfully completed. An interesting linked article about the B8 fuel ;-

Have You Seen Any Nazi Uranium? These Researchers Want To Know

When a small cube of uranium metal turned up in Tim Koeth's life, it launched an epic search for a lost piece of nuclear history.

www.npr.org

As mentioned before, the only smoking gun evidence is the sample that turned up in Italy in the early 80’s, tens of grams and an unknown %. I distinctly remember it’s reporting but can find no reference anywhere on line. Also, again mentioned before, the Zippe centrifuge, now the industry standard for enrichment, had its development roots in 1940’s Germany although it wasn’t perfected at industry scale until the mid to late 50’s.

Zippe-type centrifuge - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[Zoo Tycoon]

The range of NNEMP weapons is much less than nuclear EMP. Nearly all NNEMP devices used as weapons require chemical explosives as their initial energy source, producing only 10−6 (one millionth) the energy of nuclear explosives of similar weight.The electromagnetic pulse from NNEMP weapons must come from within the weapon, while nuclear weapons generate EMP as a secondary effect. These facts limit the range of NNEMP weapons, but allow finer target discrimination. The effect of small e-bombs has proven to be sufficient for certain terrorist or military operations.

The concept of the explosively pumped flux compression generator for generating a non-nuclear electromagnetic pulse was conceived as early as 1951 by in the Soviet Union, but nations kept work on non-nuclear EMP classified until similar ideas emerged in other nations.

Justo
I thought we were talking about an area effect from Sweden to Berlin;- you won’t do that with one of these. This tech might be able to take out your neighbours WiFi but that’s about it. This is even reflected in your pasted text. Also this type of device requires precision explosives, again inconsistent with a fuel air detonation.