• Hi Guest! Forum rules have been updated. All users please read here.

Mach Buster Supersonic Turboprop Aircraft

hesham

CLEARANCE: Above Top Secret
Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
23,769
Reaction score
816
Hi,


Mach Buster is a project to make the first prop. plane that can go supersonic in level flight. This may just be a way-out there plan that will never work. But I have always thought about this, and wonder why it has not been done in the past. I understand that the shape of the airfoil of props might not work at such high speeds, but what about simple turbine blades? Certainly a canted turbine blade can still work at supersonic or even hypersonic speeds. Anyway check it out, I love the idea. I love the 1,230 hp engine. These are good things

http://highpowerrocketry.blogspot.com/2006_10_01_archive.html
 

Attachments

Kryptid

CLEARANCE: Secret
Joined
Mar 13, 2009
Messages
275
Reaction score
1
Website
www.facebook.com
Supersonic propeller-driven aircraft are of great interest to me. I have given much thought over the years to how one might be constructed. I do believe a NASA experiment with a modified Voodoo (XF-88) demonstrated that propellers can generate positive thrust above the speed of sound, but I am unsure of the details. The XF-84H seemed to be an attempt to do the same, but had various problems.

EDIT: Photograph here: http://www.airliners.net/photo/Rose-Mach-Buster/0801827/L/
 

hesham

CLEARANCE: Above Top Secret
Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
23,769
Reaction score
816
Thank you Kryptid,


and was it a real aircraft or fake ?.
 

Attachments

Stargazer2006

CLEARANCE: Above Top Secret
Staff member
Senior Member
Joined
Jun 25, 2009
Messages
13,243
Reaction score
77
An engineer who had worked with Burt Rutan and explored the subject with him apparently concluded that supersonic flight wiith a prop other than in a dive was just not possible. I'm no expert but if these guys said so I believe they must have given the idea some good thinking. Consider this: if there had been even a small chance of achieving it, don't you think Rutan would have jumped on the idea?
 

Avimimus

CLEARANCE: Top Secret
Joined
Dec 16, 2007
Messages
1,909
Reaction score
13
That picture looks like a static display piece.
 

hesham

CLEARANCE: Above Top Secret
Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
23,769
Reaction score
816
Stargazer said:
don't you think Rutan would have jumped on the idea?

May be my dear Stargazer,


but we deal with this aircraft as a fake design to this moment,right.
 

Stargazer2006

CLEARANCE: Above Top Secret
Staff member
Senior Member
Joined
Jun 25, 2009
Messages
13,243
Reaction score
77
hesham said:
but we deal with this aircraft as a fake design to this moment,right.
No, "theoretical and speculative" is not the same as "fake"!!!

If some aircraft engineer working for the industry decides to imagine a new concept on a restaurant's paper nakpin, it's theoretical.

If some artist designs an aircraft and tries to pass it off as real, THAT is fake!
 

lastdingo

Blogger http://defense-and-freedom.blogspot.de/
Joined
Oct 18, 2008
Messages
578
Reaction score
2
Website
defense-and-freedom.blogspot.de
Turboprop engines are really just turbojets with a geared propeller.

You can adjust the propeller to minimised drag and have the turbojet powerful enough for supercruise (without afterburner). Alternatively, you could guide the exhaust gasses (thrust) away fromthe rear of the turbojet as was done with the Harrier's Pegasus engine (and nose-installed turboprops in general) and then you could add afterburners to these 2+ nozzles. The propeller would then ned to be fully stopped at supersonic speed to keep the blades away from the afterburner exhausts' path.

It would make no or almost no sense, but in theory it's possible. The result would have a disproportionate weight and volume share allocated to propulsion (as did VTOL designs, for example).

The propeller would be a huge problem, and of no real use at subsonic speeds unless you insist on a huge loiter time at low or medium altitude.
 

hesham

CLEARANCE: Above Top Secret
Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
23,769
Reaction score
816
Many thanks to Stargazer and Lastdingo.
 

Anderman

CLEARANCE: Confidential
Joined
Sep 30, 2006
Messages
149
Reaction score
3
Back in the day their was a very small article in the german magazin FlugRevue with the same picture and information as the first post.
Always wondered what happened to the project.
 

Kryptid

CLEARANCE: Secret
Joined
Mar 13, 2009
Messages
275
Reaction score
1
Website
www.facebook.com
I realize that the transonic zone has a large amount of drag and that at low supersonic speeds the drag is actually less. What if one were to design such a propeller-driven aircraft to be carried by a larger supersonic aircraft, such as a B-1, which would carry it above the draggy transonic regime and release it? Would this be more practical than trying to push through Mach 1 with a propeller directly?
 

lastdingo

Blogger http://defense-and-freedom.blogspot.de/
Joined
Oct 18, 2008
Messages
578
Reaction score
2
Website
defense-and-freedom.blogspot.de
Kryptid said:
I realize that the transonic zone has a large amount of drag and that at low supersonic speeds the drag is actually less. What if one were to design such a propeller-driven aircraft to be carried by a larger supersonic aircraft, such as a B-1, which would carry it above the draggy transonic regime and release it? Would this be more practical than trying to push through Mach 1 with a propeller directly?
The propeller stops being a sensible tool for propulsion at little more than 800 km/h at the latest. The Tu-95 bomber flies at about 900 km/h mostly as a turbojet aircraft.

An easy way to break the sound barrier is to simply dive for a few seconds, and turn altitude into velocity (potential into kinetic energy). Even works for parachutists. :)
 

Retrofit

CLEARANCE: Top Secret
Joined
Feb 21, 2007
Messages
537
Reaction score
4
hesham said:
and was it a real aircraft or fake ?.
Registration N104MB has indeed been reserved for this prototype but has now expired. So it is not fake.,
http://registry.faa.gov/aircraftinquiry/NNum_Results.aspx?NNumbertxt=104MB

I found also the following docs (source AWST December 90 but first unkown (EAA magazine perhaps)) of the aircraft still in construction. Design is attributed to Bill Montage, not David Rose.
 

Attachments

AeroFranz

CLEARANCE: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
May 4, 2008
Messages
2,158
Reaction score
19
Agree, this was a serious (if doubtfully promising) design which achieved hardware stage. In this regard it does not differ from a lot of other prototypes we discuss in the 'real' projects part of the forum.
 

Stargazer2006

CLEARANCE: Above Top Secret
Staff member
Senior Member
Joined
Jun 25, 2009
Messages
13,243
Reaction score
77
AeroFranz said:
Agree, this was a serious (if doubtfully promising) design which achieved hardware stage. In this regard it does not differ from a lot of other prototypes we discuss in the 'real' projects part of the forum.

I absolutely agree with this. The Mach Buster belongs in the "Postwar Projects" section!
 

hesham

CLEARANCE: Above Top Secret
Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
23,769
Reaction score
816
Thank you my dear Retrofit,


and you are right my dear Stargazer.
 

Stargazer2006

CLEARANCE: Above Top Secret
Staff member
Senior Member
Joined
Jun 25, 2009
Messages
13,243
Reaction score
77
Why the Mach Buster... busted:

In 1999 David [Rose] bought Mach-Buster, a partially completed airplane whose design was based on high-speed aerodynamic research that had been performed at NASA Ames Research Center at Moffet Field, California. After considerable time and effort to finish Mach-Buster, David and his team determined the design was not suitable for flight testing and abandoned the project.
Source: https://www.eaa.org/en/eaa/eaa-chapters/chaptergram-articles/2016-03-the-rest-of-the-story-david-roses-renegade
 

hesham

CLEARANCE: Above Top Secret
Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
23,769
Reaction score
816
Thanks,and welcome your return.
 

Viper2000

I really should change my personal text
Joined
Jun 8, 2018
Messages
12
Reaction score
1
Kryptid said:
Supersonic propeller-driven aircraft are of great interest to me. I have given much thought over the years to how one might be constructed. I do believe a NASA experiment with a modified Voodoo (XF-88) demonstrated that propellers can generate positive thrust above the speed of sound, but I am unsure of the details.
Here is a research memorandum on the performance of the supersonic propeller fitted to the XF-88B; it includes data at flight Mach numbers up to & including 1.01:

https://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/19930090296.pdf
 

hesham

CLEARANCE: Above Top Secret
Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
23,769
Reaction score
816
Nice find Viper2000,and welcome aboard.
 
Top