M270 MLRS and M142 HIMARS Developments

GTX said:
No surprise here: Possible Foreign Military Sale to the Government of Australia of HIMARS Launchers and related equipment

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adbr.com.au

Australia approved to buy HIMARS long-range fires | ADBR

The US Defense Security Cooperation Agency (DSCA) has announced that the US State Department has approved a possible foreign military sale (FMS) to Australia of 20 M142 High Mobility Artillery…
adbr.com.au adbr.com.au
 
Though the US will supply Ukraine with the M142 Himars, they will not supply the ATACMS with it. I imagine due to the latter increasing the systems range to 300Km from 80Km.

www.theguardian.com

Himars: what are the advanced rockets US is sending Ukraine?

High Mobility Artillery Rocket System can hit Russian targets up to 50 miles (80km) away, helping to ‘even the playing field’
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com
 
300km and 500kg warhead brushes up against the missile technology control regime; not sure if that is right on the line or just over it. In any case clearly AFU could reach deep into Russian cities and bases with that American missile and that could provoke an escalation outside Ukraine, or potentially even a nuclear first use. I'm sure they'll have plenty to shoot at inside the 70km mark.
 
Josh_TN said:
300km and 500kg warhead brushes up against the missile technology control regime; not sure if that is right on the line or just over it. In any case clearly AFU could reach deep into Russian cities and bases with that American missile and that could provoke an escalation outside Ukraine, or potentially even a nuclear first use. I'm sure they'll have plenty to shoot at inside the 70km mark.
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500lb you mean. It's well within what is legal under the MTCR (even though what's legal has long since been forgotten in this war).

en.wikipedia.org

Missile Technology Control Regime - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

The Missile Technology Control Regime (MTCR) was established in April 1987[2] by the G7 countries: Canada, France, Germany, Italy, Japan, the United Kingdom, and the United States of America. The MTCR was created in order to curb the spread of unmanned delivery systems for nuclear weapons, Specifically, delivery systems that can carry a payload of 500 kg for a distance of 300 km.
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ATACMS is 300km with a 500lb or 227kg warhead, so its range with a 500kg warhead would be far less.

I think they're waiting to see if the Ukrainians use HIMARS responsibly before giving them a larger rocket to play with.

I wonder if there's a way to limit the targeting ability of the systems, so that they will only target stuff in Ukraine.

Interestingly I noted a figure of 84km mentioned in a German broadcast, when they were discussing sending the M270A1.
 
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From The Guardian live coverage:

Following Biden’s announcement, the UK has reportedly asked the US to sign off on a plan to send advanced, medium-range rocket systems to Ukraine within a few weeks. Britain’s prime minister, Boris Johnson, spoke with Biden about the transfer of US-made M270 multiple launch rocket systems this morning, which will be followed by a discussion between his foreign secretary, Liz Truss, and the US secretary of state, Antony Blinken, on Thursday, Politico cited a source as saying.
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The UK will send its first long-range missiles to Ukraine after Russia struck the outskirts of Kyiv for the first time since April.

Defence Secretary Ben Wallace said Britain will send an unspecified number of M270 launchers, which can fire precision-guided rockets up to 50 miles – a longer range than any missile technology currently in use in the war.
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www.itv.com

Britain to send long-range missiles to Ukraine after Russia hits Kyiv | ITV News

The weaponry has a longer range than any missile technology currently in use in the war. | ITV National News
www.itv.com www.itv.com
 
Ukraine said on Thursday it had received U.S. supplies of High Mobility Artillery Rocket Systems (HIMARS), a powerful long-range weapon system that Kyiv hopes can help turn the tide on Russia's invasion.
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www.reuters.com

U.S. long-range rocket systems arrive in Ukraine - minister

Ukraine said on Thursday it had received U.S. supplies of High Mobility Artillery Rocket Systems (HIMARS), a powerful long-range weapon system that Kyiv hopes can help turn the tide on Russia's invasion.
www.reuters.com www.reuters.com
 
A thread dedicated to developments, incl sales, of either the M270 MLRS and M142 HIMARS. Some older posts will appear here due to thread clean ups elsewhere.
 
MOSCOW, July 6 (Reuters) - Russia's armed forces have destroyed two advanced U.S.-made HIMARS rocket systems and their ammo depots in eastern Ukraine, the Russian defence ministry said on Wednesday.

The ministry said Russia had destroyed two launchers for the High Mobility Artillery Rocket Systems (HIMARS) that the United States and its allies have been supplying to Kyiv.

It also said Russian forces destroyed two ammunition depots storing rockets for the HIMARS near the frontline in a village south of Kramatorsk in Ukraine's Donetsk region - the main focus for Russian troops following the capture of Luhansk over the weekend.
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The ministry released video footage which it said showed the strike. Reuters could not independently verify the strike.
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www.reuters.com

Russia says it destroyed two U.S. HIMARS in eastern Ukraine

Russia's armed forces have destroyed two advanced U.S.-made HIMARS rocket systems and their ammo depots in eastern Ukraine, the Russian defence ministry said on Wednesday.
www.reuters.com www.reuters.com
 
We will see in the future whatever these were indeed HIMARS or not.
https://twitter.com/x/status/1544618530141863941
View: https://twitter.com/VladSemivolos/status/1544618530141863941

https://twitter.com/x/status/1544673465621413893
View: https://twitter.com/GeneralStaffUA/status/1544673465621413893

Google Translate
WARNING! RUSSIAN FAKE
Russian propagandists are actively spreading false reports about the alleged destruction of the American HIMARS artillery system.

We emphasize that these messages do not correspond to reality and are nothing more than another Russian fake.
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The destruction of light trucks with rocket launching support systems really shouldn't be at all notable in a big war where tanks, combat aircraft, air defense systems and even ships gets shoveled in the the fire on a daily basis.

The outsized impact of effective long range precision strike complex is really being felt here, in conjunction with operational scale of ammo depot destruction in recent days.
 
Not a very clear video. In the first part the missile misses where the crosshairs are pointing. Ukraine has denied it.

interfax.com.ua

AFU denies info spread by Russian propagandists about alleged destruction of HIMARS

The message about the alleged destruction of the American artillery system HIMARS, which Russian propagandists are actively spreading, does not correspond to reality, the press center of the Joint Forces Group said.
interfax.com.ua interfax.com.ua
 
Forest Green said:
Not a very clear video. In the first part the missile misses where the crosshairs are pointing. Ukraine has denied it.

interfax.com.ua

AFU denies info spread by Russian propagandists about alleged destruction of HIMARS

The message about the alleged destruction of the American artillery system HIMARS, which Russian propagandists are actively spreading, does not correspond to reality, the press center of the Joint Forces Group said.
interfax.com.ua interfax.com.ua
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Just want to take note of that article heading. "AFU denies info spread by Russian propagandists..." this is probably the greatest infowar on all sides I have ever witnessed in my short lifetime. Propaganda comes in many forms and from many sides. State funded entities in legacy media and on the internets predicate their news upon certain geopolitical realities as well as certain geopolitical ideologies. Hundreds of millions are being spent thru many channels by Russia, China and the western liberal world order.

Concerning the supposedly destroyed western missile systems, hasnt the Russian MOD come out and said they indeed destroyed them? They dont have a bad track record in their info releases. They also would love to tell the world they destroyed these systems, just as much as Ukraine and the west would wish to deny it.

Btw pay attention to the last sentence in the article you posted. "The military urged to trust only trusted sources and believe in the Ukrainian Armed Forces!" See the issue of objectivity in news reporting that we are facing in this insane infowar? It is just as much a matter of bombs and bullets as it is of word and pen on our digital screens.

Edit: wanted to add an extra thought
 
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Lockheed Martin delivers first M270A2 MLRS rocket/missile launcher to US Army​


In FY2017, the U.S. Army directed the program office to modernize 160 obsolete, unserviceable MLRS M270A0s to M270A2s in an effort called MLRS Fleet Expansion. In addition to MLRS Fleet Expansion, the U.S. Army decided to extend the operational life of the existing M270A1 fleet until FY2050 or beyond, which drives the requirement to upgrade the current fleet of 225 M270A1 launchers to the M270A2 configuration. The end state is 385 MLRS launchers with Improved Armored Cabs (IAC), Bradley commonality improvements, and Common Fire Control System (CFCS). Upon application of the IAC Modification Kit to an M270A1, the launcher permanently becomes an M270A2.
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Lockheed Martin delivers first M270A2 MLRS rocket/missile launcher to US Army | Defense News July 2022 Global Security army industry | Defense Security global news industry army year 2022 | Archive News year

American company Lockheed Martin’s Missiles and Fire Control Division delivered its first M270A2 MLRS (Multiple Launch Rocket System) to the United States Army during a special ceremony on Tuesday, July 7, 2022.
www.armyrecognition.com www.armyrecognition.com
 
Just a reminder : The title of this thread says "... developments", and that means just the technical side !
 
That is far enough out of the published envelope of the M30/31 series that I have to assume it is inaccurate information. That would be a 30%+ increase over the published range, and while a GLMRS-ER round has been tested I don't think it is even in production yet.
 
Josh_TN said:
That is far enough out of the published envelope of the M30/31 series that I have to assume it is inaccurate information. That would be a 30%+ increase over the published range, and while a GLMRS-ER round has been tested I don't think it is even in production yet.
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I wouldn't bet on accurate information being right out in the public for the other guy's consumption.
 
There are places they could have fired from closer than 97 km away, it seems. That map is at best a guess if not some deliberate disinfo.
 
Josh_TN said:
That is far enough out of the published envelope of the M30/31 series that I have to assume it is inaccurate information. That would be a 30%+ increase over the published range, and while a GLMRS-ER round has been tested I don't think it is even in production yet.
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The c/s area of GMLRS-ER is <50% greater than GMLRS and the length is the same. So the difference in range should only be about 50%.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1550097566553018368
View: https://twitter.com/BlogUkraine/status/1550097566553018368?s=20&t=x6HC0zD3GdbuXvaZsSaIhQ
 
Josh_TN said:
That is far enough out of the published envelope of the M30/31 series that I have to assume it is inaccurate information. That would be a 30%+ increase over the published range, and while a GLMRS-ER round has been tested I don't think it is even in production yet.
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OTOH, until the Ukranians let it slip by accident nobody knew for sure that GMLRS could hit moving targets... And Javelin has a much bigger range than officially published...
IOW, don't believe the brochures.
 
TomS said:
There are places they could have fired from closer than 97 km away, it seems. That map is at best a guess if not some deliberate disinfo.
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Doesn't actually seem that way TBH. Without getting wet 90km is about the closest they could have been, and that would involve parking the MLRS right on the frontline, which seems like a bad idea.

liveuamap.com

Ukraine Interactive map - Ukraine Latest news on live map - liveuamap.com

Live Universal Awareness Map Liveuamap is a leading independent global news and information site dedicated to factual reporting of a variety of important topics including conflicts, human rights issues, protests, terrorism, weapons deployment, health matters, natural disasters, and weather...
liveuamap.com liveuamap.com

1658428385344.png
 
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SO,
MihoshiK said:
OTOH, until the Ukranians let it slip by accident nobody knew for sure that GMLRS could hit moving targets... And Javelin has a much bigger range than officially published...
IOW, don't believe the brochures.
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Source for GMLRS and moving targets, please? I can't find anything other than that the US Army considered the possibility of terminal seekers as far back as 2010.

The Army is also analyzing "seeker" technology for the GMLRS which would give the weapon the ability to hit a moving target, Rice said.

.....

The Army could use a seeker for the GMLRS similar to the one used on the now-in-development Joint Air Ground Missile, Rice indicated.
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OTOH, the Army admitted that versions of GMLRS can reach 90 km in that same timeframe:

The reliable, all-weather rocket uses GPS guidance as well as an internal measurement unit (IMU) to hone in on targets from stand-off distances; in some instances the weapon has been used out to ranges exceeding 90 kilometers, Rice said.
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www.army.mil

Army Receives 10,000th GMLRS

The U.S. Army is commemorating its receipt of the 10,000th production delivery of the Guided Multiple Launch Rocket System (GMLRS) --- a 500-pound, precision-guided land rocket which can pinpoint and destroy enemy targets at ranges greater than 70 ki...
www.army.mil www.army.mil
 
Firefinder said:
Friendly Reminder that the US Military has no reason to tell the...

COMPLETE truth bout its gear abilities.

Since these type of small surprises can, has, and will come in handy in war.
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Right. And those who make a point of exposing and super-publicizing it, be it daftness or malice,
are simply undermining them and helping their enemy.

They probably do it more to show off their "savvy", but they only advertize their lack of responsibility.
Loose lips, in times of war...

Unfortunately the sense of responsibility has not progressed as fast as the social media reach.

Really, guys. It's too late for this tidbit, but next time please consider whether you really really want to help Putin and his invasion. Yes, your freedom of expression, yes your desire to show off, yes yes. Are they worth helping him?
 
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dan_inbox said:
Right. And those who make a point of exposing and super-publicizing it, be it daftness or malice,
are simply undermining them and helping their enemy.

They probably do it more to show off their "savvy", but they only advertize their lack of responsibility.
Loose lips, in times of war...

Unfortunately the sense of responsibility has not progressed as fast as the social media reach.

Really, guys. It's too late for this tidbit, but next time please consider whether you really really want to help Putin and his invation. Yes, your freedom of expression, yes your desire to show off, yes yes. Are they worth helping him?
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Just to be clear, I only linked a post that had already been made on twitter. As a rule of thumb, if something is on twitter the damage is already done.
 
And likewise, what I posted was in a 10-year-old official Army publication. Should not be new news to anyone who goes beyond Wiki for source material.
 

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