Long Range Precision Fires

Josh_TN

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I didn't realize SLRC hadn't been killed off yet. It always struck me as having overly ambitious goals in terms of cost and range.
 

Forest Green

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I want to know what technology they even planned to use to achieve it. Portable fusion-reactor-powered rail gun?
 

Josh_TN

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They never said, but I thought it was probably going to be a very high pressure, high caliber gun with solid fuel ramjet ammo. I still don't see how you get a thousand miles out of that, at least not for half a million per round which was the stated goal.
 

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They never said, but I thought it was probably going to be a very high pressure, high caliber gun with solid fuel ramjet ammo. I still don't see how you get a thousand miles out of that, at least not for half a million per round which was the stated goal.
I thought they would probably use a sub-calibre projectile with rocket or CWDE engine, but optimistically even a quarter of that range would have been barely believable. Are they still working on the rail gun?
 

shin_getter

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On the note of ultra long range cannons, what about a scaled submerged light gas gun?

spacegun.jpg
Would this concept have any military utility? If so, what scale, where should it be placed and what kind of mobility should one want out of this?
 

bring_it_on

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I didn't realize SLRC hadn't been killed off yet. It always struck me as having overly ambitious goals in terms of cost and range.

For a service that hardly fields any APS equipped MBT's, a wheeled self-propelled howitzer, or zilch in terms of SHORAD capability in the active force (besides the two Iron Dome batteries) it made zero sense (nor does buying a dozen LRHWs a year for that matter). I'd also kill one of the FVL programs to buy all the rest of the stuff that is lacking but probably not possible with the current Chief.
 

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Anyone know the diameter of PrSM or warhead size yet? Ah, answered by own question, or part of it.

1653149731003.png
 

Josh_TN

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Anyone know the diameter of PrSM or warhead size yet? Ah, answered by own question, or part of it.

View attachment 678250
I believe the warhead casing is something mildly exotic as well to create more effective fragmentation pattern. They didn't come right out and say it in the literature but I believe it is 3D printed, which allows you to pretty much print your fragments in any size, shape, and orientation and stick them together in one single complex shape with a void in the middle for the HE.
 

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No surprise here: Possible Foreign Military Sale to the Government of Australia of HIMARS Launchers and related equipment

 

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Though the US will supply Ukraine with the M142 Himars, they will not supply the ATACMS with it. I imagine due to the latter increasing the systems range to 300Km from 80Km.

 

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300km and 500kg warhead brushes up against the missile technology control regime; not sure if that is right on the line or just over it. In any case clearly AFU could reach deep into Russian cities and bases with that American missile and that could provoke an escalation outside Ukraine, or potentially even a nuclear first use. I'm sure they'll have plenty to shoot at inside the 70km mark.
 

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300km and 500kg warhead brushes up against the missile technology control regime; not sure if that is right on the line or just over it. In any case clearly AFU could reach deep into Russian cities and bases with that American missile and that could provoke an escalation outside Ukraine, or potentially even a nuclear first use. I'm sure they'll have plenty to shoot at inside the 70km mark.
500lb you mean. It's well within what is legal under the MTCR (even though what's legal has long since been forgotten in this war).


The Missile Technology Control Regime (MTCR) was established in April 1987[2] by the G7 countries: Canada, France, Germany, Italy, Japan, the United Kingdom, and the United States of America. The MTCR was created in order to curb the spread of unmanned delivery systems for nuclear weapons, Specifically, delivery systems that can carry a payload of 500 kg for a distance of 300 km.

ATACMS is 300km with a 500lb or 227kg warhead, so its range with a 500kg warhead would be far less.

I think they're waiting to see if the Ukrainians use HIMARS responsibly before giving them a larger rocket to play with.

I wonder if there's a way to limit the targeting ability of the systems, so that they will only target stuff in Ukraine.

Interestingly I noted a figure of 84km mentioned in a German broadcast, when they were discussing sending the M270A1.
 
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Forest Green

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We know it's 34.5 inches (0.88m) in diameter, and scaling off the released images suggest it's about 33 ft (10m) long. Weight is ~16,300 lbs (~7,390 kg).
Scaling off images I only get 7m (280inches) assuming it's in proportion. What image were you using?
 

Flyaway

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From The Guardian live coverage:

Following Biden’s announcement, the UK has reportedly asked the US to sign off on a plan to send advanced, medium-range rocket systems to Ukraine within a few weeks. Britain’s prime minister, Boris Johnson, spoke with Biden about the transfer of US-made M270 multiple launch rocket systems this morning, which will be followed by a discussion between his foreign secretary, Liz Truss, and the US secretary of state, Antony Blinken, on Thursday, Politico cited a source as saying.
 

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We know it's 34.5 inches (0.88m) in diameter, and scaling off the released images suggest it's about 33 ft (10m) long. Weight is ~16,300 lbs (~7,390 kg).
Scaling off images I only get 7m (280inches) assuming it's in proportion. What image were you using?

Yeah, I got that wrong. It's the TEL canister that is apparently 10m long. I'd swear I saw this figure somewhere else, but I guess Global Security will have to do.
https://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/munitions/lrhw.htm
 

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What image are you using?
Having now reviewed several images, I would suggest not using them, because they are clearly not to proportion, and I get a different value each time, ranging from 7m to nearly 11m, based on width as 34.5in.

TomS's link is probably best because it specifies the container as 10m, and the cut-out divides that into 12 segments (lines on container), the missile is more than 11 of those, so at least >9m.

1654109619131.png
 

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The UK will send its first long-range missiles to Ukraine after Russia struck the outskirts of Kyiv for the first time since April.

Defence Secretary Ben Wallace said Britain will send an unspecified number of M270 launchers, which can fire precision-guided rockets up to 50 miles – a longer range than any missile technology currently in use in the war.

 

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Which makes me wonder.. why they cancel Crussader in the first place.

Because the USArmy since the end of the Cold War and worse during/after WoT has no real idea what it wants/needs with its vehicle programs. Therefore it’s an endless series of upgrades to current systems and restating needs that are never met through programs that are never fulfilled. The improved artillery needs have been around since the mid 80s as a response to increasing WarPac artillery capabilities. They periodically repeat those needs like they are newly discovered.
From 1988. Countering Soviet Fire Support.

 

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"We have replenishment!...The German Panzerhaubitze 2000 with trained Ukrainian crews joined the Ukrainian artillery family," Ukraine's Defence Minister Oleksii Reznikov said on social media.
The Panzerhaubitze 2000 is one of the most powerful artillery weapons in Bundeswehr inventories and can hit targets at a distance of 40 km (25 miles).
 

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Ukraine said on Thursday it had received U.S. supplies of High Mobility Artillery Rocket Systems (HIMARS), a powerful long-range weapon system that Kyiv hopes can help turn the tide on Russia's invasion.
 

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The article does not state what missile system it is referring to here.

The United States is likely to announce this week the purchase of an advanced medium to long range surface-to-air missile defense system for Ukraine, a source familiar with the matter told Reuters on Sunday.

Edited to add that CNN states it is likely to be the Norwegian NASAMS.

 
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Forest Green

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The article does not state what missile system it is referring to here.

The United States is likely to announce this week the purchase of an advanced medium to long range surface-to-air missile defense system for Ukraine, a source familiar with the matter told Reuters on Sunday.

Edited to add that CNN states it is likely to be the Norwegian NASAMS.

NASAMS doesn't have a range of >100 miles unless I missed something. Or is that just news reporters being news reporters?
 

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The article does not state what missile system it is referring to here.

The United States is likely to announce this week the purchase of an advanced medium to long range surface-to-air missile defense system for Ukraine, a source familiar with the matter told Reuters on Sunday.

Edited to add that CNN states it is likely to be the Norwegian NASAMS.

NASAMS doesn't have a range of >100 miles unless I missed something. Or is that just news reporters being news reporters?

Almost certainly someone seeing that NASAMs fired AIM-120D, which is usually listed as having a range of 160km. But of course that's an air-launched range and surface launch chops that down dramatically.
 

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Almost certainly someone seeing that NASAMs fired AIM-120D, which is usually listed as having a range of 160km. But of course that's an air-launched range and surface launch chops that down dramatically.
Quite possibly? Is it NASAMS 1 or 2?
 

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Almost certainly someone seeing that NASAMs fired AIM-120D, which is usually listed as having a range of 160km. But of course that's an air-launched range and surface launch chops that down dramatically.
Quite possibly? Is it NASAMS 1 or 2?

Haven't seen anything but NASAMS 1 is old; hasn't been made in years. Probably NASAMS 2 but could possibly even be NASAMS 3, which has been delivered to Lithuania and I believe Norway.
 

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Haven't seen anything but NASAMS 1 is old; hasn't been made in years. Probably NASAMS 2 but could possibly even be NASAMS 3, which has been delivered to Lithuania and I believe Norway.
That's the one with AMRAAM-ER right?

1656425625603.png
 

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