Loire Nieuport LN.42

lucamax

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Hi,

During a search about the Loire-Nieuport LN.401/411, I found this aeroplane: the Loire-Nieuport LN.42. From what I understand, the airplane was the natural successor of the LN.401/411, but the war stopped the development and construction. After the war, the prototype was completed, but both design and project were obsolete, so the plane was abandoned and scrapped. I found this information on this site: http://www.histaviation.com/Loire-Nieuport_LN_40_LN_401_LN_411_LN_42.html.
In the site, there are also some pictures, but low quality. Someone knew more information or have better photograph?

Thank you for your help,
cordially,
Lukamax :D
 

Jemiba

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In the Aviation Francais Magazine N° 8 was an article about the LN-42,
here a 3-view, a photo and to colour profiles.
 

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Apophenia

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Paraphrased from William Green's War Planes of the Second World War, Vol 8, 1967, pp 44-46:

LN 42: Improvement of the LN 402 (LN 401 fitted with HS.12Y-31, flown late 1939), the more extensively redesigned LN 42 retained only the fuselage of the LN 411. Tail surfaces were enlarged The straight wing had reduced area (226 sq ft/21 m2 versus 266.4 sq ft/24.7 m2) and span (42.64 ft/12.99 m versus 45.916 ft/13.99 m). Powerplant was an HS.12Y-51 offering 1,100 hp (1115 ps/820 kW) both for take-off and at 10,695 ft/3260 m.

The prototype LN 42 was undergoing taxiing trials at Issy-les-Moulineaux in June 1940. After one or two short hops, it was taken to a farm at Flayosc [Provence] and hidden. Recovered after the liberation, the prototype flew from Toussus-le-Noble on 24 Aug 1945. After trials, it was fitted with a reversible-pitch [Swiss] Escher-Wyss propeller* and trials resumed (28 Oct 1946). With no interest from the Aéronavale, LN 42 trials ended in 1947.

* In 1943, Flight reported Escher-Wyss claims that their variable-pitch reversible propeller would reduce the landing run of a single-engined fighter aircraft by up to 28%.
 

Grey Havoc

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You could almost imagine it being turned into a sort of French Skyraider, if the Aéronavale had been a little less obsessed with getting jets (a common problem with most air arms of the post-war era, you could say).
 

Caravellarella

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Doesn't look like a "project" to me :eek:......

Terry (Caravellarella)
 

Stargazer2006

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Caravellarella said:
Doesn't look like a "project" to me :eek:......

Terry (Caravellarella)
Well, I think overscan made it clear that any prototype that didn't reach production status is liable for inclusion in the "Projects" section.

I truly wonder why you are so obsessed with what types should or shouldn't be considered as projects... To paraphrase overscan again, just post the stuff and let the mods do their job! You are giving these matters far much more importance than they really have, I think... No need to go insomniac over them!
 

toura

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Hi all.
From an old "aviation magazine"
 

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hesham

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By the way,

there is also the LN.43 project.
 

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Grey Havoc said:
You could almost imagine it being turned into a sort of French Skyraider, if the Aéronavale had been a little less obsessed with getting jets (a common problem with most air arms of the post-war era, you could say).
It was completely outdated in 1945, underpowered and overweight. It was already obsolete in 1940!
 

hesham

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Unfortunately Lucamax,

I have no more info.
 

hesham

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hesham said:
By the way,

there is also the LN.43 project.

If anyone has a more Info about it,that's will be nice.
 

lark

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Have you a source of this info Hesham ?

It's very strange , but

Jean Liron's list in AviMag 723 ( 1.2.1978) does not mention a type LN.43

nor did the Docavia ' Nieuport 1909-1950' by L.Rosenthal,A.Marchand e.o
 

hesham

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My dear Lark,


that information was from Internet,from a French site,but as you know about me,
it is hard to remember,what was it.
 

Jemiba

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Googling reveals a lot of hits for "Loire Nieuport LN.43", but ...
all of them on wikipedia sites or sites, that obviously have mirrored
this list and, as far as I could see, none of them giving any information
besides this designation. Wikipedia is a quite helpful online tool, so helpful,
that my kids nearly have forgotten, how to use an oldfashioned encyclopedia .... ::)
I'm afraid in many of our cases here, it's not that helpful !
 

Stargazer2006

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"LN.43" appears on a website that is clearly described as a "uchronia" (imaginary story of how things might have developed differently).
It never was an actual designation.
 

hesham

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Stargazer2006 said:
"LN.43" appears on a website that is clearly described as a "uchronia" (imaginary story of how things might have developed differently).
It never was an actual designation.

Why,why we are always so harry to judge,and get a decisions,who said it was a imaginary story,
if we search well,we will find that old French site,which contains many mystery projects of
aircraft.


http://www.acam.asso.fr/histo/premiers_equipements5.php
http://www.acam.asso.fr/histo/premiers_equipements6.php


In that great site,which talks about the George Messier designer,and his career about
landing gear,and offered those devices to many aircraft and projects,only for Loire and
Loire-Nieuport,for those the following projects;


Loire 25 ?
Loire-Gourdou-Leseurre 610B ?
Loire-Gourdou-Leseurre 611 ?
Loire-Nieuport LN-43 & LN-46 (the later may be it was Loire 46 fighter) ?
Loire-Nieuport LN-420 ?
Loire-Nieuport LN-105 ?


Who can solve this problem,and tell us what are them ?.
 

Stargazer2006

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hesham said:
Why,why we are always so harry to judge,and get a decisions,who said it was a imaginary story,
if we search well,we will find that old French site,which contains many mystery projects of
aircraft.
Well, I came across a reference to a totally imaginary Loire-Nieuport (I think it was LN-43) that was supposed to have been mass-produced in 1945... When I checked the name of the site, it was described as a uchronia, so, no, hesham, I didn't jump to conclusions, such sites DO exist on the webs.

Couldn't find the one in question this time around but found another one here:
http://www.cobexlaw.com/France41%20files/France%2041%20readme%20first.doc
 

hesham

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Hi,


I think I solve the first mystery,the Loire 25,may be it was Loire 250,sometimes
wrote as Loire 25.
 

hesham

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My dear Apophenia,


the Loire 46 was from early 1930s and they wrote; LN-46 Loire-Nieuport SNCAO 1/1/1939,
and that means the aircraft belonged to SNCAO and not for Loire,that's because,the
Loire 46 last delivery was in July 1937.


The same thing for Loire-Nieuport SNCAO LN-43 of 1939,and it was not related to
Loire 43 C.1 fighter of 1933.
 

aviadrix

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It was already obsolete in 1940!
[/quote]

Hi,
I cannot agree with your last sentence.

From the tests done in in the CEV during early 1946, this Nieuport 42 was seen as extremely maneuvrable, her speed was 433 kph at an altitude 3500 m and a top speed of 462 kph at an higher altitude (396 kph at sea level).

The max take off weight was 3080 kg.

For 1940, these data were absolutely relevant.

As certainly you know, the Hurricane IV of 1943, powered by a 1600 hp Merlin 24 / 27 engine had a top speed of 460 kph (284 mph) at the TOW of 3490 kg (source W Green, Fighters, vol 2, 1961).

The contemporary dive bombers were the Ju 87 (390 kph), the Blackburn Skua (360 kph), the Aichi Val (390 kph) and the excellent Douglas Dauntless (410 kph).
 

hesham

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hesham said:
http://www.acam.asso.fr/histo/premiers_equipements5.php
http://www.acam.asso.fr/histo/premiers_equipements6.php

In that great site,which talks about the George Messier designer,and his career about
landing gear,and offered those devices to many aircraft and projects,only for Loire and
Loire-Nieuport,for those the following projects;

Loire 25 ?
Loire-Gourdou-Leseurre 610B ?
Loire-Gourdou-Leseurre 611 ?
Loire-Nieuport LN-43 & LN-46 (the later may be it was Loire 46 fighter) ?
Loire-Nieuport LN-420 ?
Loire-Nieuport LN-105 ?

Hi,


as I told you before,the Goerge Messier site is right,I can solve one problem,the Loire-Nieuport
LN-43 was a dive bomber shipboard project version of LN-42.
 

Jemiba

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hesham said:
...the Loire-Nieuport LN-43 was a dive bomber shipboard project version of LN-42.
Wasn't the LN.42 itself a shipboard dive bomber ? ???
And wasn't the problem with the relation to the LN.42 (shipboard dive bomber) already solved ?
 

hesham

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My dear Jemiba,


as I know it was a shipboard version,they said " On note parfois la denomination LN-43
pour une version embarquee du LN-42".
 

Jemiba

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hesham said:
... they said...
Who's "they"in this case ? I did some online searching again,but without new results,
so I'm afraid we are going round in circles. It seems to me, that the only source we have
so far is the ACAM (Mesiers) site. It's a good one, I used it, too, but to err is just human.
And for the LN.43 the year 1939 is given, whereas it's 1940 for the 42. A little bit strange.
There may be reasons and it may be ok, but the evidence still is missing, I think.
 

Stargazer2006

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Jemiba said:
hesham said:
... they said...
Who's "they"in this case ? I did some online searching again,but without new results,
so I'm afraid we are going round in circles.
Not so. Unless I'm mistaken, I believe hesham quoted from Le trait d'union, who have my utmost trust as a reliable source.
 

Jemiba

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Skyblazer said:
... who have my utmost trust as a reliable source.
Mine, too ! But I cannot remember, that it already was mentioned as source here...
Well, things can be so easy ! Just give a source and everybody knows, where to look for ..
And the authors seem not to be absolutely sure, as I understand it. But my understanding
may be wrong.
 

hesham

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Of course my dear Jemiba and Skyblazer,


and here is the paragraph.
 

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