List all weapons of SDI ?

seruriermarshal

ACCESS: Top Secret
Joined
May 4, 2008
Messages
1,101
Reaction score
336
List all weapons of SDI ?

- Braduskill
- X-Ray Laser
- NPB Neutral Particle Beam
- SBL Space Based Laser
- HVG HyperVelocity rail Gun
- GBL Ground Based Laser
- SBKKV Space Based Kinetic Kill Vehicle
- BP Brilliant Pebbles
 

flateric

ACCESS: Above Top Secret
Staff member
Top Contributor
Senior Member
Joined
Apr 2, 2006
Messages
9,274
Reaction score
1,790
Will post here
 

Attachments

  • sdi.jpg
    sdi.jpg
    202.8 KB · Views: 357

carsinamerica

ACCESS: Confidential
Joined
Feb 19, 2010
Messages
113
Reaction score
24
Add:

HOE (Homing Overlay Experiment), a ground-based interceptor missile that deployed a web to catch incoming RVs.
 

sferrin

ACCESS: USAP
Senior Member
Joined
Jun 3, 2011
Messages
14,614
Reaction score
3,537
carsinamerica said:
Add:

HOE (Homing Overlay Experiment), a ground-based interceptor missile that deployed a web to catch incoming RVs.

I don't know that that was part of SDI so much as it was a vehicle to test the hit-to-kill concept. (Like FLAGE and SRHIT - which became ERINT---> PAC-3.)
 

flateric

ACCESS: Above Top Secret
Staff member
Top Contributor
Senior Member
Joined
Apr 2, 2006
Messages
9,274
Reaction score
1,790
picture has a caption
 

phrenzy

as long as all they ask me about is the air war...
Joined
Oct 31, 2013
Messages
277
Reaction score
3
A neutral particle beam was one of the more sci fi sdi options explored. It's neutral because firing either positively or negatively charged particles wouldn't be very efficient as they would be attracted or repelled by other positive or negatively charged forces in the medium your firing through. The particles (hydrogen) are fired through what amounts to a fiddled with particle accelerator to high relativistic speeds and blasts the target like a shotgun blast of billions of hydrogen pellets.

Unlike a laser or other energy weapons a neutral particle beam actually relies on smashing it's target with physical matter like a gun with a muzzle velocity near the speed of light rather than burning it. It has many of the advantages of directed energy weapons in terms of immediacy of action with the additional benefits of not being as effected by the medium they are firing through (lasers don't deal well with the different layers of air with different humidities and the like which bend the light slightly differently in ways that are hard to account for over long distances making it hard to hit your target as well as bleeding off useful energy).
 

RP1

I see the truth in it.
Senior Member
Joined
Feb 22, 2006
Messages
480
Reaction score
371
Website
rp-one.net
Unlike a laser or other energy weapons a neutral particle beam actually relies on smashing it's target with physical matter like a gun with a muzzle velocity near the speed of light rather than burning it.


I'm not sure that that is correct. NPB should cause heating of the target, it's just that the energy is from the KE of the particles rather than from photons. The particles interact at very small scale, so it's not a mechanical deformation as per hitting a target with a bullet.

Edited to add: I think I've heard of a "deep heating" effect with NPB, due to penetration of some percentage of the particles into the target, rather than being absorbed at the surface, and secondary radiation given off due to the energy of the collisions.

RP1
 

phrenzy

as long as all they ask me about is the air war...
Joined
Oct 31, 2013
Messages
277
Reaction score
3
I'm sure thats true, certainly it isn't like firing a single projectile, it was perhaps a somewhat misleading description I was just trying to emphasise that it was different from a laser style weapon in that your actually firing off matter rather than just energy. You would expect significant heating from any sort of physical impact and as you say such small particles travelling at this speed are likely to penetrate, what the breakdown of useful effects (kinetic vs heating etc) is, I don't know.

The only test I've seen though in old footage does give the impression of a serious physical blow. I can't find it on YouTube but it's of a simulated missile (basically just a thin metal tube full of water) and it seems to take a fairly good wallop and blow open like a physical impact but that is a very casual and superficial observation. Plus many of those SDI tests were highly skewed to over play what the weapons could do so who knows what your really seeing.

I've been reading Zbigniew Brzezinski's book of collected essays on SDI, knowing his background it's likely a little skewed but it has writings from some very big names from Churchill to McNanara, Nixon, kissinger, Reagan, Kosygin, Gorbachev and many points in between.
 

phrenzy

as long as all they ask me about is the air war...
Joined
Oct 31, 2013
Messages
277
Reaction score
3
I completely misunderstood the question, apologies for running away with myself.
 

Byeman

ACCESS: Top Secret
Joined
Jan 8, 2010
Messages
881
Reaction score
81
phrenzy said:
A neutral particle beam was one of the more sci fi sdi options explored.


NPB wasn't to be used as a weapon but as a target discriminator. It would illuminate all the targets and the more dense ones would have more secondary radiation.
 

Orionblamblam

ACCESS: Above Top Secret
Top Contributor
Senior Member
Joined
Apr 5, 2006
Messages
8,812
Reaction score
3,218
Website
www.aerospaceprojectsreview.com
Byeman said:
NPB wasn't to be used as a weapon but as a target discriminator.

There were ideas for both uses. NPB's would trash the electronics of a target. A laser would damage the surface; the NPB would cause damage all through the target, with a lot of the energy being dumped into the interior.
 

phrenzy

as long as all they ask me about is the air war...
Joined
Oct 31, 2013
Messages
277
Reaction score
3
Byeman said:
phrenzy said:
A neutral particle beam was one of the more sci fi sdi options explored.


NPB wasn't to be used as a weapon but as a target discriminator. It would illuminate all the targets and the more dense ones would have more secondary radiation.

In addition to use as a weapon, that was the plan for most of the DE systems wasn't it?
I know they pretty quickly found that the economics of SDI favored decoys/counter measures over defence. Im pretty sure they planned to use long wavelength lasers in this way too. The animation I saw seemed to imply that it would discriminate by destroying smaller mylar balloon or other lightweight decoys but it wouldn't be powerful enough to kill a bus or RV on its own.

Of course this is only helpful for space based systems since mylar balloons won't have anything like the momentum of an RV once it's in even close to the air of the upper atmosphere.
Given this though I always wondered why they insisted on following mid course, space based, intercepts. I know there are a few advantages for lasers operating in a vacuum but it must be much easier to generate the power you would need for most of these on the ground and anything that was still moving like a MIRV warhead re-entry phase, even if it's a decoy, is going to take the place of a warhead on the bus anyway. I suppose by that time it's a little close for comfort and you have to deal with vaporised bombs raining over the countryside though.

Can anyone recommend any good books or articles on SDI programs that have survived the cold war? I know there is a lot on modern missile defense out there but I'm particularly curious about the more exotic (non missile based) efforts and those that directly sprang out of the initial SDI effort that are still around today (or at least survived the initial post cold war cuts).
 

flateric

ACCESS: Above Top Secret
Staff member
Top Contributor
Senior Member
Joined
Apr 2, 2006
Messages
9,274
Reaction score
1,790
...
 

Attachments

  • c (9).jpg
    c (9).jpg
    58.8 KB · Views: 212
  • c (93).jpg
    c (93).jpg
    98.5 KB · Views: 206
  • c (103).jpg
    c (103).jpg
    109.8 KB · Views: 197

flateric

ACCESS: Above Top Secret
Staff member
Top Contributor
Senior Member
Joined
Apr 2, 2006
Messages
9,274
Reaction score
1,790
...
 

Attachments

  • orbiting_railgun.jpg
    orbiting_railgun.jpg
    236.4 KB · Views: 150

flateric

ACCESS: Above Top Secret
Staff member
Top Contributor
Senior Member
Joined
Apr 2, 2006
Messages
9,274
Reaction score
1,790
...
 

Attachments

  • Comp-1_360000.jpg
    Comp-1_360000.jpg
    355.3 KB · Views: 76

fredymac

ACCESS: Top Secret
Joined
Dec 14, 2009
Messages
2,157
Reaction score
725
Project White Horse - particle beam weapon


A small subscale demonstrator was flown on a sounding rocket and validated the hardware. This was the "Beam Experiments Aboard Rocket" project. Particle beams have excellent target coupling and can deposit their energy deep inside the target material but I haven't seen any R&D projects that have continued this work.
 

In_A_Dream

ACCESS: Secret
Joined
Jun 3, 2019
Messages
327
Reaction score
201
A small subscale demonstrator was flown on a sounding rocket and validated the hardware. This was the "Beam Experiments Aboard Rocket" project. Particle beams have excellent target coupling and can deposit their energy deep inside the target material but I haven't seen any R&D projects that have continued this work.

s-l300.jpg
 

Grey Havoc

ACCESS: USAP
Senior Member
Joined
Oct 9, 2009
Messages
16,858
Reaction score
6,465
From the comments:
oldengg · 19 hours ago
This paragraph in the article above really has personal interest for me.

"Unlike their colleagues at IPM, the TsNIIMash researchers did not have bombing missions in mind. According to Mozzhorin, the shuttle’s 29-ton payload-to-orbit capacity and, more significantly, its 14-ton payload return capacity, were seen as a clear indication that one of its main objectives would be to place massive experimental laser and particle beam weapons into orbit that could destroy enemy missiles from a distance of several thousands of kilometers. The reasoning behind that was that such weapons could only be effectively tested in actual space conditions and that in order to cut their development time and save costs it would be necessary to regularly bring them back to Earth for modifications and fine-tuning."

These Soviet experts had anticipated Reagan's Strategic Defense Initiate (SDI, aka Star Wars) a decade before that program was initiated. And they were exactly right. The Shuttle would be used to launch prototype directed energy weapons into LEO for testing.

In 1986 my company, McDonnell Douglas, received a contract to build a subscale prototype of an operational neutral particle beam weapon that would be launched on the Space Shuttle. You can see the full scale mockup here that occupied all of the Shuttle payload bay and included the weapon prototype, and free-flying target and detector vehicles.
http://www.aerospaceprojectsreview.com/blog/?p=35...

My job was to design and build the output magnetic optics subsystem that interfaced the output of the linear accelerator (linac) to a distant target. By 1988 we had prototyped the ion source, the particle accelerator components, magnets, and microwave power systems for the accelerator and we had design solutions for scaleup to the full size weapon that could be launched on the Titan IV. No technological breakthroughs were needed to reach the weapons specifications. Of course, with the start in 1989 of the slow motion implosion of the Soviet Union that climaxed in Dec 1991, the Bush administration put Star Wars on the back burner.


By the way, how did this topic end up in the Bar?
 
Last edited:

BAROBA

3D artist
Joined
Jul 6, 2007
Messages
345
Reaction score
23
Website
www.baroba.be

DWG

ACCESS: Top Secret
Joined
Feb 11, 2007
Messages
1,501
Reaction score
1,700
There was also a Super Excalibur.
Which would look like a porcupine in space and could shoot at 100's of targets at one. ( one explosion would shoot 100's of lasers at once.)

Once you have a nuclear device, the detonation laser principle is completely scalable, you can have as many lasing heads as you like, each one just needs a lasing rod and the pointing hardware.
 

Similar threads

Top