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Lippisch post war projects

dan_inbox

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Hmmm Hesham...

Rob Arndt is kind of famous... :D
 

amsci99

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I am still confused how the Lippisch Aerodyne is supposed to work, is it a direct vectored thrust vehicle or does the body conform to the 'Coanda Effect'?
 

flateric

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Aerodyne the wingless, tailess plane in remote-control flight inside hanger; inventor Alexander Lippisch at controls.
December 1955

© Time Inc.
 

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Jemiba

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From "The Aeroplane" .1.56, another impression of the Lippisch Aerodyne,
with a short description of the principle .
 

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Lauge

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Jemiba said:
From "The Aeroplane" .1.56, another impression of the Lippisch Aerodyne,
with a short description of the principle .
"...internal lift-inducing system" ??? Isn't that what the Hindenburg used ?

Regards,

Thomas L. Nielsen
Denmark

PS: If (as it seems) the aerodyne uses direct lift fans, wouldn't the specific fuel consumption be through the roof ?
 

Jemiba

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"Isn't that what the Hindenburg used ?"

Principally, you're right, I think ! Lift is generated inside the vehicle, contrary
to the use of conventional wings, where it's outside. Nevertheless a lighter-than
air vehicle would be a cheat here ! ;)
There were tests with real (unmanned) aerodynes, built by Dornier with parti-
cipation of Alexander Lippisch, so I think, the basic principle was the same.
Maybe in forward flight the shrouded fan acts like a ringwing ?
(photo from http://www.deutsches-museum.de/flugwerft/sammlungen/senkrechtstarter/aerodyne/)
 

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amsci99

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I came across this title at a second hand bookshop sometime ago and was a bit put off by the mathematics but it think it provided the aerodynamic theory between the tailess and delta configuration of Dr Alexander Lippisch.

'The Aerodynamics of the Unconventional Air Vehicles of A. Lippisch' by Henry V Borst.
 

Jemiba

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Found today an article about the aerodyne written by Alexander Lippisch himself
in Aero 6/1960. An artist's impression of an aerodyne as a light transport (bizjet
today) and three eletrical powered models with different configurations are shown.
And it is said, that the basic principle would be the same in the large "wingless aircraft".
 

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amsci99

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Jemiba,
Does the article mention the working principles behind the concept? I may be way off but I think it might employ the same principle as Robert Carr's Inner Wing at http://www.rexresearch.com/carrcoan/carrcoan.htm
 

Jemiba

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The article only mentiones the re-direction of the engines airflow, so not
only giving propulsion, but also lift for the aircraft. Actually, the style of the
article seems a little bit vainly to me. A.Lippisch mentiones, that several people
has regarded his wingless designs as inherent uneconomical, but he completely
refused those arguments.
But thanks for the link, perhaps I should ask Robert Carr personally , how to achieve
a better landing behaviour for the Xstream flyers ! :D
 

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Lauge

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Jemiba said:
The article only mentiones the re-direction of the engines airflow, so not
only giving propulsion, but also lift for the aircraft. Actually, the style of the
article seems a little bit vainly to me. A.Lippisch mentiones, that several people
has regarded his wingless designs as inherent uneconomical, but he completely
refused those arguments.
Well, if I remember my VTOL theory correctly (and if anyone can correct me, please do so), the efficiency of a direct-lift VTOL air vehicle in hover is directly related to "disc loading", that is the amount of weight that each unit area of the lifting airflow has to carry.

Because helicopters have such large lifting airflow areas (basically the area of the rotor disc) they are quite efficient in hover, whereas something like the Harrier (with it's teensy little nozzles) have crappy efficiency. Since the Lippisch designs seems to me to have quite small lifting airflow areas (and since this lifting airflow isn't just used during take-off and landing, but during flight as well), I'm guessing efficiency would be quite lousy. Any test data on this ?

And could the internal airflow somehow generate aerodynamic lift during forward flight ?


Regards & all,

Thomas L. Nielsen
Denmark
 

cluttonfred

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Looking at the example marked "Aerodyne_01.jpg" it does appear that the "disc loading" would be much better then a Harrier, for example, thought still inferior to a helicopter. I see the aerodyne as more akin to a tail-sitter or a coleopter, but the vanes diverting the airflow allow a more pleasant take-off/landing angle.
 

RanulfC

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amsci99 said:
I came across this title at a second hand bookshop sometime ago and was a bit put off by the mathematics but it think it provided the aerodynamic theory between the tailess and delta configuration of Dr Alexander Lippisch.

'The Aerodynamics of the Unconventional Air Vehicles of A. Lippisch' by Henry V Borst.
Copy found here:
http://openlibrary.org/books/OL4121929M/aerodynamics_of_the_unconventional_air_vehicles_of_A._Lippisch

Randy
 

Mark Nankivil

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Three available in the U.S.:

http://www.abebooks.com/servlet/SearchResults?an=Henry+V+Borst&sts=t&tn=The+Aerodynamics+of+the+Unconventional+Air+Vehicles+of+A.+Lippisch&x=19&y=11

Enjoy the Day! Mark
 

Jemiba

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From InterAvia 5/1960 concepts for an aerodyne missile and a
heavy transport.
BTW, there's a page about the aerodynaimc basics, too, unfortunately
in german, but probably it was in the english issue as well ?
And who's willing to cope with the german language, just drop a PM.
 

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Grey Havoc

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Michel Van

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here also http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,5828.0.html
This "aircraft" is labeled "Lippisch Gleit-Bombenflugzeug" or Messerschmitt "Libelle" or Hitler's "Silent Dart"
for me, this is a Fake
 

Grey Havoc

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Thanks guys. I really should have remembered that 'Silent Dart' topic. :)

Looks like it might actually be a design from around the latter half of 1941 or there abouts. Messerschmitt's late war Libelle and Wespe projects may have inherited some elements from it. Checking some more details at the moment.
 

shedofdread

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Considering the similarity of the 'Drad' to the Piasecki Air Jeep, is it know if Lippisch worked there?
 

shedofdread

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If you look at the first photo you've posted (btw, I believe this to be a later version to the second), you'll observe the tandem lift fans and the rear duct angled somewhat aft (this is done to both reduce drag and help with stability in the hover). If one then examines the cross section of the 'Drad', one finds both features present there. Therefore conceptually, they are [to my eyes] very similar platforms. The only difference is one of scale.

Regards,

S
 

Stargazer2006

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shedofdread said:
I believe this to be a later version to the second)
You are very right. The second picture represents the VZ-8P AirGeep (Model PA-59K) of 1958, while the first one depicts the VZ-8P(B) or VZ-8P-2 AirGeep II (Model PA-59H) of 1962.

There was also a third (intermediary) variant, the PA-59N SeaGeep, similar to the unbent VZ-8P with floats underneath.
 

Lauge

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hesham said:
Hi,


the Lippisch Drad V/STOL project;


http://www.unicraft.biz/
That just looks.......No! :p In profile, it reminds me of the "remarkable worm said to be unknown to science" that drove Isadora Persano stark staring mad.

Regards & all,

Thomas L. Nielsen
Luxembourg
 

lippischh

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I adore this man, he's my idol i couldn't prevent me from posting a reply here just to express my complete adoration to this man, we don't talk about enough despite that he's a great man and has contribute a lot to aeronautics

Cheers
 

hesham

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Here is the Lippisch Supersonic Delta.
 

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Triton

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Dornier Aerodyne concept model photo found on eBay.

URL:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Dornier-Aerodyne-Wingless-Plane-8x10-1970-/390452566224?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5ae8c958d0
 

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hesham

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Hi,


From the Lippisch site,many unbuilt projects;


http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,17628.msg167972.html#msg167972
http://cdm16001.contentdm.oclc.org/cdm/search/collection/p15031coll11/page/8
 

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lippischh

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Hi,

Hesham : actually the latest image posted was a render done by me, at a time i didn't have much modelling experience so the render isn't that nice, that's why im going to remodel that aircraft for fun and thanks for reminding me.

regards
 

hesham

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hesham

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Really,very nice Hamzalippischh.
 

hesham

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Very cool Hamzalippischh.
 
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