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Junkers Ju 287, development, projects and prototypes

hesham

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Hi,

The previous really picture was for EF-131 V2 six engined bomber,
and a drawing to it with wind-channel model.
 

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Flitzer

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Hi all
I have the black and white wind tunnel reference pics of the Ju EF66 from
Manered Griehl's Jet Planes of the Third Reich, the Secret Projects Vol 2.

I wondered if anyone might have any more pics, drawings, info etc.
as I hope to do a profile therefore a 3-view.

Many thanks for any help.

Cheers
Peter
 

toura

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Re: Junkers EF66

Dear Flitzert
Is your document the same than the one on
"Prototypes.com/lejunkers ju 287"
 

Flitzer

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Re: Junkers EF66

Hi Toura
Thank you but I'm not sure as I can't access prototypes.com.

I'll post the pictures I do have tonight.

Cheers
Peter
 

toura

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Re: Junkers EF66

Try "Prototypes.free.fr/ju 287"
 

son altesse

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Re: Junkers EF66

I can confirm , Pete, you can find one picture with this link http://prototypes.free.fr/ju287/ju287-1.htm
;)
 

Jemiba

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Re: Junkers EF66

In "Hugo Junkers. Pionier der Luftfahrt", Benard & Graefe publishing the EF 66 is described
as one configuration, that what tested for the Ju 287. The picture in that book is the same
as on http://prototypes.free.fr/ju287/ju287-1.htm, but as on that site it's quite small,
I'll post it here again :
 

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Flitzer

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Re: Junkers EF66

Hi and thank you all.

The pics I have are the one Jemiba shows and a couple as on the prototypes.free.fr site.
The version I want to try is that in the pic kindly provided by Jemiba.

So if there are no more available I can manage.

When I start I will post progressives for critical advice if I may call on your wise heads once again.
Again many thanks
Peter
 

saturncanuck

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Many of us are familiar with the Ju 287 swept forward bomber of 1944. However, the aircraft -- Ju 287 V1 -- was, in reality, only a test-bed for the production aircraft. The Ju 287 V1 used parts from other aircraft (He 177 fuselage, Ju 388 tail components, Ju 352 main wheels and B-24 nosewheels) to get the aircraft up faster. The pictures we see of the aircraft with fixed landing gear, spatted BTW, does not give us the whole picture.

So, has anyone seen pictures, drawings or the like of the "actual" Ju 287 and what it was supposed to look like? I would be interested.
 

redstar72

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That Wikipedia article is a bit incorrect - the Ju 287V2 and the EF-131 are very similar, but different aircrafts. When the Soviet command became interested in Ju 287 development, any construction drawings weren't found and Baade's team had to recreate the design anew (though some aggregates built for the 287V2 were used for EF-131 prototype - especially some wing sections). The EF-131 fuselage was 2.5 meters longer than the 287V2, and the empennage differed in dimensions and (slightly) in shape. Also, EF-131 had remote-controlled gun turret with two 13-mm machine guns in the tail end of fuselage, which Ju 287V2 had not. The automatic slats were also redesigned.

Here are 3-views of both the 287V-2 and EF-131. The 287V-2 drawing was found at http://www.airwar.ru/enc/bww2/ju287.html, and the EF-131 is from Dmitry Sobolev's book "German trails in Soviet aviation history".
 

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frank

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Just a clarification. The Ju 287 used B-24 Main Landing Gears as its nose gear.

saturncanuck said:
Many of us are familiar with the Ju 287 swept forward bomber of 1944. However, the aircraft -- Ju 287 V1 -- was, in reality, only a test-bed for the production aircraft. The Ju 287 V1 used parts from other aircraft (He 177 fuselage, Ju 388 tail components, Ju 352 main wheels and B-24 nosewheels) to get the aircraft up faster. The pictures we see of the aircraft with fixed landing gear, spatted BTW, does not give us the whole picture.

So, has anyone seen pictures, drawings or the like of the "actual" Ju 287 and what it was supposed to look like? I would be interested.
 

saturncanuck

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frank said:
Just a clarification. The Ju 287 used B-24 Main Landing Gears as its nose gear.

saturncanuck said:
Many of us are familiar with the Ju 287 swept forward bomber of 1944. However, the aircraft -- Ju 287 V1 -- was, in reality, only a test-bed for the production aircraft. The Ju 287 V1 used parts from other aircraft (He 177 fuselage, Ju 388 tail components, Ju 352 main wheels and B-24 nosewheels) to get the aircraft up faster. The pictures we see of the aircraft with fixed landing gear, spatted BTW, does not give us the whole picture.

So, has anyone seen pictures, drawings or the like of the "actual" Ju 287 and what it was supposed to look like? I would be interested.
Yes.
 

Apophenia

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frank said:
Just a clarification. The Ju 287 used B-24 Main Landing Gears as its nose gear.
Is there a source for this? Just curious.
 

AeroFranz

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Several. One I can think of is "German aircraft of the second world war" by Kay and Smith.
It makes sense. In 1943-44, the luftwaffe was probably the largest distributor of B-17 and B-24 parts in the world! :D
 

Apophenia

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Thanks. I asked because the twin nose wheels on the Ju-287 V1 look too small to be the 56 inch tires of the B-24 main wheels. Saturncanuck mentioned the B-24 nose gear (and that 36 inch tire sounds right). Obviously appearances are deceptive.

Out of curiosity, does anyone know the main wheel tire size for the Ju-352?
 

Apophenia

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The EF 122 was one of the last of a string of Junkers design studies on the way to the Ju-287.

Others were, with mid-mounted wings: EF 055 (forward-swept wings), EF 56 (rearward-swept wings),
EF 57 (wings swept aft then forward), EF 58 (forward-swept wings of elliptical profile with a decreasing sweep towards tips), and EF 59 (forward-swept wings, two engines on forward fuselage, two engines aft-mounted under wing -- Note EF 59 designation conflicts with an earlier, twin piston-engined study).

With shoulder-mounted wings: EF 66 (forward-swept wings, two engines under wing (continued as EF122),
EF 67 (forward-swept wings, two engines at fuselage), EF 68 (forward-swept wings, twin assymetrical engines on forward fuselage).

The EF 116 of 1943 had a 'W'-wing but I'm not sure if it was mid- or high-mounted.
 

Jemiba

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According to "Hugo Junkers Pionier der Luftfahrt - seine Flugzeuge", the Junkers EF-designations
were given to windtunnel models, so quite often several of them were belonging to a single
project. Around 1942, the former prefix "EFo" was changed to "EF". That could have been a
source for duplications of numbers.
The mentioned book shows the windtunnel models of the EF 55 to EF 59:
 

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lucinator

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I know the russans got it but what became of it after they were sone testing it.
 

redstar72

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Actually, the Ju 287 V2 prototype was nearly completed at the end of war but was blown up by the Germans before the Allies came. Only the wing wasn't damaged unrestorably, and some sections of it were used for EF-131 prototype. Some sources proclaim that Ju 287 V2 and EF-131 are the same, but it isn't correct - see at http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,7727.msg67479.html#msg67479.

The EF-131 V1 was completed on August 12, 1946 and sent to the tests. But it wasn't flown in Germany because it wasn't legal to create and test new military aircraft in postwar Germany. Therefore, in September it was disassembled and sent to the USSR - to State experimental plant No.1 (Государственный опытный завод № 1) in Podberezye, 120 km to Moscow, together with Baade's and Ressing's design teams (OKB-1 and OKB-2). The plant itself was highly damaged by bomb attacks at war; also it needed re-equipment for its new tasks (previously it was named Zavod No.458 and produced flying boats designed by Chetverikov). So, the end of 1946 and early 1947 were occupied by preparing works. Then, EF-131 structural tests carried out at TsAGI showed that the fuselage isn't strong enough: its strength was only 52 % to normal and the flight could be safe only at speeds not exceeding 600 km/h. The strengthening took about 2 months (at the same time the second prototype was completed). After all this, the first EF-131 made its first 15-minute flight on May 23, 1947, piloted by German test pilot Paul Julge. But, due to many problems detected during the tests (horizontal tail vibrations, nose gear shimmy etc...), only 7 flights were made until October 1947; total flying time was only 4.5 hours. In October, due to confidence reasons, it was decided to forbid access of foreign specialists to the objects performing classified works. After this, German specialists had to leave LII airfield in Ramenskoe and move to VVS service airfield in Teplyi Stan. In June 1948 the EF-131 was ready to continue tests at new place, but on June 21 the program was cancelled by Aircraft Industry Minister's order No.440ss. The second EF-131 prototype was rebuilt into EF-140 (or simply Aircraft "140") first flown on September 30, 1948.
 

lucinator

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ok but what became of both the first prototype and the ef140 airframe
 

redstar72

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The first prototype - you mean that ugly demonstrator? As far as I know, it was destroyed or highly damaged in Rechlin during Allies bomb attack.

Now about "140" - there were two prototypes of this aircraft:

The first was, as I mentioned before, rebuilt from the second EF-131 prototype. It made its first 20-minute flight on September 30, 1948 in Teplyi Stan. Engine problems were detected already during 2nd flight on October 5, and after 7th flight the tests were stopped. They restarted next year after replacement of engines, and on May 24, 1949 the factory tests finished. Maximum reached speed was 904 km/h, flight range 2000 km. But the aircraft wasn't sent to the state tests, but converted into recon "140-R" instead. The unsuccessful Mikulin AM-TKRD-01 engines were replaced by Klimov VK-1 (updated RR Nene), not so powerful but much more reliable and low-consumption. Wing span was increased from 19.4 to 21.9 m, additional fuel tanks were mounted on the wing tips (overall fuel capacity increased from 5820 to 10 600 kg, calculated flight range to 3600 km). 20-mm cannons in the turrets were replaced by 23-mm, and former bomb bay was occupied by cameras and other recon equipment. The "140-R" was first flown on October 12, 1949 from new-built Borki airfield near the factory (the militaries opposed to presence of the Germans in Teplyi Stan); the pilot this time was Russian - Ivan Fedorov. But the flight was aborted due to extreme wing vibrations, as well as the next one on October 20. The aircraft returned to the factory for retrofit works; the tests restarted in Spring 1950 but stopped after 2nd flight - the vibrations continued. After this, TsAGI specialists were employed to solve the problem. They assumed that wingtip-mounted fuel tanks cause the flutter; but on July 18, 1950 the whole "140" program was cancelled (the extremely successful Ilyushin Il-28 already came into production) and "140-R" newer flew again.

The second aircraft was built as "140-B/R" which could be a bomber as well as a recon aircraft. Its main difference from the "140-R" was in equipment; the crew reduced from 4 to 3 men due to improved gun direction system. Calculated flight range was 3000 km with 9400 kg fuel capacity and 1500 kg bomb load; maximum speed would be 866 km/h. The aircraft was completed and passed the ground tests but was never flown due to program cancellation. It seems that both prototypes were then scrapped (anyway, they didn't came to Monino Air Museum).

(Source: Sobolev D.A. The German trails in Soviet aviation history. - Moscow, 1996)
 

tartle

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There is an interesting 'History of Technology' paper by
Peter G. Hamel. "Birth of Sweepback: Related Research at Luftfahrtforschungsanstalt-Germany", Journal of Aircraft, Vol. 42, No. 4 (2005), pp. 801-813.
This may be of interest. Also a windtunnel model picture, page 162, in the book 'Aeronautical Research in Germany' by Hirschell, Prem and Madelung
 

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LowObservable

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Very interesting how the FSW was used in packaging the aircraft with a big weapon bay forward of the spar.
 

Abraham Gubler

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LowObservable said:
Very interesting how the FSW was used in packaging the aircraft with a big weapon bay forward of the spar.
Same configuration was used in the post war Hansa Jet except with passenger cabin in place of weapon bay.
 

LowObservable

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Hans Wocke was involved in both designs... and IMHO the FSW Hansa Jet's aesthetics beat the horrible pregnant-duck effect that results from a wing passing below a small bizjet's pressure cabin, the Beech Premier being the worst example of the latter. Most of my interminable-meeting personal-aircraft doodles end up with FSW.
 

tartle

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Another way of achieving the clear cabin is to go canard then add a tail a la Piaggio P180 Avanti II.
 

AeroFranz

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or make the rich bastards flying in the bizjets have to step over the damn wing box and bend their heads! ;D
 

LowObservable

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The Avanti is one of my favorite designs. It just happens to be the product of the world's most eccentric airplane company.
 

hesham

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From Aviatik magazine,


here is a trio drawings to Junkers aircraft,please note the Ju-287 V.1 paint is a little
different from we know.
 

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Jemiba

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hesham said:
...please note the Ju-287 V.1 paint is a little different from we know.
The Ju 287 V1 was based on the fuselage of the He 177, with the same cockpit, but the
rear turret faired over. So the differences in this drawing quite probably are just inaccuracies,
I'm afraid. :-\
 
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