• Hi Guest! Forum rules have been updated. All users please read here.

Japanese Jet Engines of WWII

Noveos

I really should change my personal text
Joined
Mar 8, 2019
Messages
30
Reaction score
17
Ah okay, that makes more sense. It seems the original description was incorrect.

Justo, do you know where I can find more information regarding Japanese centrifugal-type jet engines? I’m curious how they compare to the axial series.

and thanks for the amazing images and information, as always
 

Noveos

I really should change my personal text
Joined
Mar 8, 2019
Messages
30
Reaction score
17
We've been a bit off-topic, but again, I appreciate how incredible your responses are. This is an image of the Ne-30, it was posted by Qaz on Reddit a while ago:

as2pEGL.jpg
 

blackkite

Don't laugh, don't cry, don't even curse, but.....
Joined
May 31, 2007
Messages
7,259
Reaction score
2,386
Awsome contributions. Thanks Justo-san!!
TR-10 was a bypass engine.
 
Last edited:

blackkite

Don't laugh, don't cry, don't even curse, but.....
Joined
May 31, 2007
Messages
7,259
Reaction score
2,386
Thanks a lot Justo-san!!:cool:
Amazing contribution as usual.
 

blackkite

Don't laugh, don't cry, don't even curse, but.....
Joined
May 31, 2007
Messages
7,259
Reaction score
2,386
Hi! Ne-201 turboprop engine.
This engine was one of the first Japanese gas turbine engine which researched and developped in parallel with Ne-10 series engine.
Maker : Ishikawajima Shibaura turbine Co.Ltd.
Ne-130 jet engine's initial name was Ne-201Ⅱ.
Ne-20 jet engine's initial name was TL-140.

Specification of Ne-201 turboprop engine
Compressor
Type : axial flow 19 stages, Compression ratio : 4.21, Air flow rate 22. 8 kg/s,
Rotation speed : 4200 rpm, Outer diameter : 980~789. 5 mm
Combustor
Type : Cannular 4 units, Fuel consumption : 1280kg/h
Turbine
Type : Axial flow 5-stage, Turbine inlet temperature : 800°C,
turbine output : 6720hp, Compressor drive power : 4850hp, propeller output : 1870hp, Thrust : 600kg,

In July 1944, the first unit was completed.
On October 26, 1944, a test using steam was conducted at Shibaura Turbine Co., Ltd.
After the test, an open inspection was conducted, but no abnormality was found.
On December 20, 1944, the axial compressor burst during operation at 1500 rpm.
In April 1945, the axial compressor was repaired and the test was conducted again. After that, it was unfinished and lost the war.

Source : Japan Aviation Academic History
 

Attachments

Last edited:

windswords

CLEARANCE: Secret
Joined
May 20, 2009
Messages
344
Reaction score
90
That was a great attempt Blackkite-san. You are correct about the KA-10 pulsejet, the KR-10 liquid fuel rocket motor, and the NE-20. I also think you correctly identified the NE-12 (TR-12) although it may be the 12b instead. The others I don't know about.
 

Noveos

I really should change my personal text
Joined
Mar 8, 2019
Messages
30
Reaction score
17
In the second image, is that an actual Ne-20? It looks like a bypass turbo
 

QAZ

Interested in Japanese jet development during WWII
Joined
Apr 22, 2017
Messages
16
Reaction score
54
Website
sensha-manual.blogspot.com
Brief History of the Japanese Jet Engine


Notable figures for the Navy

Rear Admiral Hanejima

Between 1919 and 1920, Lieutenant Hanejima became interested in European turbine technology. While visiting France, he purchased 10 Rateau superchargers and returned to Japan. This did not stir development curiosity at the time, but one was given to the Tokyo Imperial University for study purposes. In 1936, as Rear Admiral, Hanejima became highly interested in European jet engine patents and expressed that development should begin in Japan. Head of the Kuugishou engine department until 1941. Became head of the Tokyo Aeronautical Institute.

Captain Tanegashima

In 1922, Commander Tanegashima graduated from the Naval Engineering College. Until 1930, he worked in Maritime Engineering at Yokosuka and Kure, participating some in work on steam turbine design. By 1933, he completed a course in Aeronautics at the Tokyo Imperial University and thereafter served at the Kuugishou (1st Navy Air Technical Arsenal). During this time, he quickly became the authoritative figure on gas turbine development, becoming the head of the engine department at Kuugishou in 1941. In 1943, he was promoted to Captain.

Commander Nagano

Graduated from the Tokyo Imperial University Mechanical Engineering Department in 1934. Thereafter served at the Kuugishou, first as an assistant in engine design, and later as an engineer in the engine testing department. Became an assistant to Captain Tanegashima in the jet research department in 1944, and was a main figure in the development of the Ne-20 jet engine.

Lieutenant Commander Kato

Assistant of Captain Tanegashima who played a main role in the development of TR and resulting early engines.


Notable figures for the Army

Mr. Hibi

Tokyo Imperial University graduate who researched ramjets at Mitsubishi from 1937 and experimented on scale models.

Mr. Teisuke Hayashi

Civilian engineer dispatched from Kawasaki to lead the development of ramjets, motorjets, and turbojets in the Army between 1942 and 1944. Developed the Army's first jet engine, Ne-0, and almost flew the first turbojet engine in Japan before cancellation.

Captain Tomori

Head of development for the Army's turboprop engine from 1942 to 1945.



Major Milestones in Development during Wartime

~1920: Lieutenant Hanejima visited France and purchased 10 turbochargers.

1937-38: Mr. Hibi started experimenting on small models of ramjets at Mitsubishi, catching the interest of the Army.

1937-38: Commander Tanegashima visited France and Switzerland, and became enthusiastic about gas turbines.

1940: Commander Tanegashima began project to develop a free-piston gas generator based on Junkers.

1941: Commander Nagano completed a small free piston gas turbine which could light a lamp.

1941: Commander Tanegashima switched efforts to developing a Gas-Turbine-Prop-Rocket (Turboprop), and encouraged the development of a scale model at Ebara Co.

1942: 1/4 scale 16-stage axial compressor for turboprop was completed and tested favourably, giving Commander Tanegashima's efforts recognition and support in the Navy.

Sept 1942: YT-15 large turbocharger completed, but trials proved the technology was unfinished, plans to convert to jet engine.

June 1943: YT-15 turbocharger is converted to the turbojet "TR", and the first jet engine in Japan is completed.

July 1943: TR first test.

July 1943: Army's first jet engine "Ne-0" ramjet is completed for first run.

Mid 1944: Mass production plan of TR10 (improved TR) fails to materialize.

July 1944: Cutaway diagram of BMW 003A is received from Germany, and starts reformation and unification of the jet engine programs, and immediate cancellation of the Army's jet engines.

July 1944: First Japanese turboprop "Ne-201" is completed by the Army.

September 1944: First TR10 complete.

December 1944: It is recognized by Captain Tanegashima that all early indigenous Navy turbojet engines should be canceled.

March 1945: Ne-20 completed and trial run with highly promising results.

June 1945: Ne-20 completes testing for production, production model "Ne-20A". First Japanese jet engine to be considered serviceable.

August 1945: First flight of Japan's first jet plane "Kikka (Kai)".

August 15 1945: All work on wartime jet engines is canceled due to the end of the war.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Chart of Japanese Wartime Jet Engines (Incomplete, Updated soon)

1594237238073.png
 
Last edited:

blackkite

Don't laugh, don't cry, don't even curse, but.....
Joined
May 31, 2007
Messages
7,259
Reaction score
2,386
Thanks a lot QAZ-san. Superb!!:cool:
 

windswords

CLEARANCE: Secret
Joined
May 20, 2009
Messages
344
Reaction score
90
Hi, my opinions
Well done! I didn't realize there was a smaller KA-10 pulsejet in the picture. But I have never read anywhere they were developing a small version. The KA-10 was a copy of the Argus pulsejet used in the V-1. What purpose would a smaller KA-10 have? It's not like the original KA-10 was overpowered...
 

QAZ

Interested in Japanese jet development during WWII
Joined
Apr 22, 2017
Messages
16
Reaction score
54
Website
sensha-manual.blogspot.com
(Replying in this topic to get R2Y topic back on track).

1594316181152.png 1594316201948.png

Hi! I modify the chart. What is TR-20?
TR20 is the early name for Ne-20, but it was scarcely, if ever, used.

Well done! I didn't realize there was a smaller KA-10 pulsejet in the picture. But I have never read anywhere they were developing a small version. The KA-10 was a copy of the Argus pulsejet used in the V-1. What purpose would a smaller KA-10 have? It's not like the original KA-10 was overpowered...
Small Ka-10 was the first model of Ka-10 manufactured as an experiment engine, the prototype of Ka-10.
 

Sineva

CLEARANCE: Restricted
Joined
Apr 29, 2010
Messages
47
Reaction score
119
I found some line drawings of the Ne-3 and Ne-4
Ne-3_Ne-4.jpg
These were from a pdf of a 1983 article in the Japan society of mechanical engineers magazine Vol776/No86
This was titled: あるエンジン設計技術者の回想 : 旧陸軍試作ジェットエンジンの開発(技術の歴史) Memoirs on an Engine Designer Activity : Prototypes of Defunct Japanese Army Jet Engine(History of Technology)
Sadly it was all in japanese but it did have some illustrations which I have not seen before.
For anyone whos interested or better yet reads japanese,you can download a pdf from here
https://www.jstage.jst.go.jp/article/jsmemag/86/776/86_KJ00004408670/_article/-char/ja/
 

windswords

CLEARANCE: Secret
Joined
May 20, 2009
Messages
344
Reaction score
90
I downloaded the PDF from the Japanese site referenced in Sineva's post. I then copied the images of the Ne-3 and Ne-4 into MS Paint, enlarged and cleaned them up. Here they are if you wish to have them.
 

Attachments

QAZ

Interested in Japanese jet development during WWII
Joined
Apr 22, 2017
Messages
16
Reaction score
54
Website
sensha-manual.blogspot.com
1594332325358.png

Of the first jet engines in Japanese Army, Ne-1, Ne-2 are motorjets, while Ne-3 and Ne-4 are turbojets, axial and centrifugal respectively.

These engines were intended to be auxiliary engines for increasing the speed of existing planes like Ki-48-II.

Emphasis was given to Ne-3 and Ne-4, which almost flew below a plane as Japan's first flying turbojets in July and August 1944. But, due to the reorganization of development at that time, these engines were cancelled to the disappointment of Mr. Teisuke Hayashi.
 
Last edited:

blackkite

Don't laugh, don't cry, don't even curse, but.....
Joined
May 31, 2007
Messages
7,259
Reaction score
2,386
The title of this drawing is Ne-10.
But this drawing seems to be different from Ne-10.
I think that this drawing shows TR jet engine.

The Japanese Imperial Navy initially began developing the exhaust gas turbine supercharger, the most immediate application of the gas turbine, not the gas turbine engine itself.
The exhaust gas turbine supercharger YT15 type (for altitude 15000 meters, 2500 hp engine), which was developed mainly by Captain Kato of Kugisho, completed in September 1942. It was technically incomplete and far from practical use.
Captain Kato thought of remodeling this into a turbine engine, and Colonel Tanegashima adopted that idea, which was the first step in prototype jet engine production.
The prototype of the jet engine named "TR" was completed in June 1943, but because there were no overseas documents and everything was an unknown technology, the experiment not proceeded as desired. It was in July 1944 that a series of operation tests using three prototype engines was completed.
The conclusion obtained from the driving test was that there were many problems to be solved and it was far from practical use.
This engine often suffered from breakage of turbine blades, seizure of bearings, unstable combustion, burst of compressor fan, etc., and it was not possible to operate up to planned 16,000 r.p.m.
Estimated performance was about 300 kg of ground static thrust, fuel consumption was about 480 kg/h using ordinary gasoline, which were poor, but it was still attractive at that time.
Then, a tentative remodeling plan was issued, named TR10, and decided to make 70 prototypes by several private companies with experience in exhaust gas turbines and the Navy.
 

Attachments

Last edited:

QAZ

Interested in Japanese jet development during WWII
Joined
Apr 22, 2017
Messages
16
Reaction score
54
Website
sensha-manual.blogspot.com

blackkite

Don't laugh, don't cry, don't even curse, but.....
Joined
May 31, 2007
Messages
7,259
Reaction score
2,386
May be so. Too much additinal information.
 
Last edited:

QAZ

Interested in Japanese jet development during WWII
Joined
Apr 22, 2017
Messages
16
Reaction score
54
Website
sensha-manual.blogspot.com
Started simple table of the jet development timeline.

Untitled Diagram (4).png



Bringing over very interesting points and good information from blackkite in the R2Y topic.

Surprising contributions are here. I modify my chart again.

1594383441581.png
The title of this drawing is Ne-10.
But this drawing seems to be different from Ne-10.
I think that this drawing shows TR jet engine.

1594382975019.png

The Japanese Imperial Navy initially began developing the exhaust gas turbine supercharger, the most immediate application of the gas turbine, not the gas turbine engine itself.
The exhaust gas turbine supercharger YT15 type (for altitude 15000 meters, 2500 hp engine), which was developed mainly by Captain Kato of Kugisho, completed in September 1942. It was technically incomplete and far from practical use.
Captain Kato thought of remodeling this into a turbine engine, and Colonel Tanegashima adopted that idea, which was the first step in prototype jet engine production.
The prototype of the jet engine named "TR" was completed in June 1943, but because there were no overseas documents and everything was an unknown technology, the experiment not proceeded as desired. It was in July 1944 that a series of operation tests using three prototype engines was completed.
The conclusion obtained from the driving test was that there were many problems to be solved and it was far from practical use.
This engine often suffered from breakage of turbine blades, seizure of bearings, unstable combustion, burst of compressor fan, etc., and it was not possible to operate up to planned 16,000 r.p.m.
Estimated performance was about 300 kg of ground static thrust, fuel consumption was about 480 kg/h using ordinary gasoline, which were poor, but it was still attractive at that time.
Then, a tentative remodeling plan was issued, named TR10, and decided to make 70 prototypes by several private companies with experience in exhaust gas turbines and the Navy.
I think it is probable that this drawing could be TR, especially because even in designer memoirs the TR is often mistaken for TR10.

However, TR and TR10 were trial-and-error engines, and modified along the way. What I mean is, two units both named "TR" or "TR10" could be somewhat different due to trial and error modifications.

Because there is no detailed record on the appearance of TR, it's very difficult to know for sure.

(For organizational purposes, it would be best for everyone to continue Japanese jet engine talk in this topic instead of the R2Y Keiun topic.)
 

blackkite

Don't laugh, don't cry, don't even curse, but.....
Joined
May 31, 2007
Messages
7,259
Reaction score
2,386
Thanks owner.
Please enjoy Ne-130 clear image, etc.
Source : Japanese Aviation Academic History (日本航空学術史), etc.
 

Attachments

Last edited:

Noveos

I really should change my personal text
Joined
Mar 8, 2019
Messages
30
Reaction score
17
Great images blackkite. Decent photo of Ne-3 is especially rare.


View attachment 637201

Rough scale of German and Japanese WW2 engine I made 2 years ago. Ne-20 is very compact.

We all know that the Ne-20 heavily drew from the BMW 003, but in what ways did they differ? Only detail I can recall right now is that the Ne-20 had a higher-number of stages in the compressor
 

blackkite

Don't laugh, don't cry, don't even curse, but.....
Joined
May 31, 2007
Messages
7,259
Reaction score
2,386
I can't answer your sharp question.

I found two japanese document witten by jet engine designer.
(1) The document written by Teisuke Hayashi, Ne-0~Ne-4 designer. (Kawasaki Heavy Industries)
(2) The document written by Osamu Nagano, Ne-20 designer, (Kugisho later IHI).(He was a one of the planner of V2500 engine.)
Please try automatic translator.
 

Attachments

Last edited:

windswords

CLEARANCE: Secret
Joined
May 20, 2009
Messages
344
Reaction score
90
Hi Ne-1 motorjet!
I cleaned up the image posted by Blackkit-san and tried to color in some of the sections since the image is a little cluttered and confusing. My coloring of the sections may not be accurate as to the different parts of the engine, so take it with a grain of salt. If anyone has more knowledge and can suggest a correction please do so.
 

Attachments

Top