Italian projects of WWII

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Maveric

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Hi all,

I search for drawings and tecnical data for the following projects of the WWII,

1) Caproni-Vizzola C.V. 3
2) Caproni-Taliedo Ca. 214
3) Caproni-Predappio Ca.600 or Ca.601
4) CANSA FC.11
5) IMAM Ro.71
6) Breda Ba.92 & Ba.93

Thanks Maveric
 

hesham

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Hi Maveric,

all I know they were two seat trainer aircraft,but sorry I have not
their tecnical data.
 

Skybolt

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Ummm, just a few days, I have something on the Capronis.
 

hesham

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Hi,

there was a mystery aircraft to Breda,it was CC3000 three
engined bomber,do you have a more informations about it?.
 

Skybolt

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Umm, CC is not a Breda designation (was Ba). Could be some indipendent designer project assigned for production to Breda. Buit I doubt. CC was used to designate the Campini-Caproni projects, but ended with the "2". Later Campiini projects were designated starting from C.S.3
 

hesham

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Thank you dear skybolt,

and do you have any information about Ba.94 twin engined fighter/reconnaissance
aircraft project?.
 

Maveric

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Hi Skybolt,

no informations about the Caproni´s or Breda´s ?
What with the italian members?

Servus Maveric
 

Skybolt

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That's what I found till now (BTW, I'm an Italian member... ;) )
CC was a designation used by Breda in the '20s, for example in the CC20 prototype bomber. No hint on a CC3000 yet.
More info on the Ba.94. It was one of the two designs tendered by Breda to the 1938 Caccia Combattimento competiton (first round), the other one was the Ba.88bis, a Ba.88 with the Alfa Romeo 135 (instead of the Piaggio P.XI). The Ba.94 was itself a Ba88bis with a crew of one. Neither designs was judged acceptable by the Regia Aeronautica (BTW, the competition asked explicitly for a two-people crew) and were abandoned. Breda didn't participate in the second round of the competition in 1939. I've not been able to uncover a three view, but I'll try and ask a fellow that probably has.
 

hesham

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Thanks to you dear skybolt,

and can I ask you about IMAM Ro.67,I think it was a fighter,but
not sure.
 

Skybolt

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Lot of info on the Ro.67. This evening.
 

Skybolt

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The IMAM Ro.67 was the sole design tendered by the Breda Group, through its southern subsidiary IMAM, to the second round of the Caccia Combattimento competition in 1939. It was powered by three DB-601s in a traditional configuration (tractor propellers) armed with three 20 mm guns. The crew was of two. Relevant dimensions were: length 12,30 m; span 15,60; calculated empty weight 4960 KG; wing surface 36 sqm; calculated empty weight 4,960 KG; max speed at 5,200 m 620 KM/h (estimated) ; max range 1500 KM.
Regia Aeronautica was skeptical of the design, because the high installed power (3150 hp) translated in a max speed of only 620 KM/h. Nevertheless the Ro.67 was deemed acceptable and two prototyped ordered (serials MM.431-432). At the end of 1939 the unexpected: IMAM decided to retire its tender of the Ro.67 offering a derivative of the Ro.57 (a competitor for the contemporary Caccia Intercettore competition) with a crew of two and two DB-601. The Ro.58 was considerably smaller and was actually built later in one example that flew in 1942. But this is another story. The Ro.67 was definitively cancelled in March 1940 and the first serial of the intended prototypes was transferred to the Ro.58.
 

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hesham

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Thank you my dear skybolt,

from my dear Tophe,Caproni Ca.345 was twin boom seaplane.
and excuse me can I ask you about Caproni Ca.317 to Ca.320,
I only heard that Ca.318 was developed from Ca.308 but I am
not sure.
 

Skybolt

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Ok, I'll have more info on the Capronis on Tuesday. :)
 

lark

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Sky...
Your IMAN Ro.67 is sheer beauty...
Thanks ,Danke ,Merci, Gracias, Bedankt and so on :)
 

red admiral

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The forward swept wings on it are definitely interesting. The speed does seem a bit low for the installed power.

The 20mm cannons are engine-mounted?
 

Antonio

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Bravissimo, grazie :)

It looks impressive although 3 engines mean expensive and difficult maintenance

Skybolt,
Caccia Combattimento
it's a zerstörer or a fighter bomber type?.
 

hesham

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all thanks to you my dear skybolt.
 

Skybolt

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The speed does seem a bit low for the installed power.
Yep. Another problem was that the engines had the same rotation direction, so there was a real fear of the torque effect.
It looks impressive although 3 engines mean expensive and difficult maintenance
The same thought Regia Aeronautica ;D
The 20mm cannons are engine-mounted?
Two of them, the lateral ones, yes, the third no, on the fuselage with a complicated synchro mechanism. (this was another point criticised by RA).
it's a zerstörer or a fighter bomber type?.
The original specification (1938) asked for a type combining heavy fighter, light bomber (with internal bomb bay) and reconnaisance roles. The second specification eliminated the internal bomb bay and the photographic installation, asked for an optional external bomb carriage but was focused on the zerstorer role. So the Ro.67 can be described as a zerstorer.
 

Skybolt

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Got a snippet of info on the Breda CC3000 (thanks to my friend Giorgio Apostolo): the Breda CC20 was also known as the CC2000 from its total installed power in HPs. The CC3000 was an evolution of the CC2000 with more power. It is unknown if through more powerful engines, or more engines (i suspect the last).
 

Maveric

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Hi Skybolt,

can you tell us more about different Romeo projects of the 30´s and 40´s ( please with drawings and technical data )?

Thanks and Servus
 

Skybolt

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Uh, there were some 30 of them....
 

Flitzer

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Hi all...
If anyone could help please, I'd be most grateful.

I'm attempting to do my first Italian Secret Project Profile: IMAM Ro.67.
I nicked the 3-view from here for reference...many thanks.

The general shape etc is fine, but the cockpit canopy detail and the engine casings are a little vague.

Should I assume...
1. The cockpit/canopy would have been similar to, say, The Ju87 Stuka's?
2. The engine casing and filters would have been similar to the Macchi MC202 Folgore?

And any ideas for oil coolers/intakes etc.

Many thanks
Peter
;D
 

Jemiba

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If I had to describe these two details, for the canopy I probably would
say "similar to the Bf 110, the rear part with the gun less sloping downward",
and for the filters/coolers "similar to a Spitfire IX" ???
 

Skybolt

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Umm, I'm not a refined modeller, but I think best approximation would be something like the details in Ro.58 ...
Some photos and profiles here:

http://www.airwar.ru/enc/fww2/ro58.html

BTW: Flitzer, what about the SM-95B profile ??? ;D ;D
 

Flitzer

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Hi Skybolt

I will....promise.
Its the next in Photoshop.

And many thanks for your suggestions...a big help.

Cheers
Peter
;D
 

Flitzer

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Hi all...

while I'm doing the elusive SM95B for skybolt, I thought you might be interested in having a gander at the work-in-progress pic of the Ro67.

A bit more work to be done and the front view of course.

And as usual your comments are very welcome.

Cheers
Peter
;D
 

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joncarrfarrelly

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Thats great Peter.
Now how about a nice bright red Ro.67R long distance racer version ala the P.23R and S.M.79R?
Bennie the Moose loved those pretty propaganda machines.

Cheers, Jon
 

lark

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Nice work already , but could it be that the rear of the cockpit
is a bit to high compared with the 3-view drawing...
 

Skybolt

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Lark is right as usual :D
And there must be a 12,7 mm SAFAT machine gun facing the rear ... So beware in making the slit in the rear cockpit in the plan view :p
 

Skybolt

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nice bright red
Well, is was more a cherry red, and even more burgundy-like in some instances (e.g. the SM-79s winner of the Istres-Damascus-Paris...)

And, BTW, the surname in Italy was Ben... ;D
 

hesham

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Dear skybolt,

I rote from many years thta the IMAM Ro.47 was recce aircraft,
is that right ?.
 

Flitzer

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Hi again...
many thanks for the comments...very helpful.

And Lark, good job you spotted the rear canopy...my head must have been full of Bf110...lol.

And Skybolt...I've done generic guns so far....

Still a little more to do.

Cheers
Peter
 

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Skybolt

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Well, it' already almost perfect... :D
 

Flitzer

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Many thanks...
so here is the finished profile...warts and all.

Now for Skybolt's "Black Beauty".

Cheers
Peter
 

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hesham

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Hi,

The Ansaldo A.115m & A.115bis was two seat parasol wing
recce monoplane,I also heard the company designed aircraft
called A.110,is that right ?.
 

hesham

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Hi,

There was three projects from Reggiane,the Re.2006P mail plane derived from
Re.2000, a more stranger the Re.2006PP six seat single engined transport
monoplane originally called Re.2007 and Re.2006C racer monoplane originally
called Re.2008.
 

lark

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See the excellent article by Skybolt of September 24 ,2006
on this forum:
'The real RE-2007 story'
 

hesham

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Thank you my dear lark,and I just know those informations about Reggiane
from a friend.
 
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