Italian Cavour as conventional carrier

[archipeppe]

Interesting video of onbard operation (takeoff and landing) of Italian Blackshape two seat full composite materials trainer from Italian Carrier Count of Cavour during 2014 trials.

In that occasion the Blackshape BS 100 Prime becomed the first conventional aircraft to operate onboard an Italian carrier, since all other types both fixed wing (AV-8B+ and F-35B) and rotary wing (AB-412, NH-90 and EH-101) are STOVL or helicopter.

 

[ceccherini]

Once I've read that in the design phase MM briefly evaluated to adopt a CATOBAR or STOBAR configuration for Cavour with the intention of operate a navalized variant of the Typhoon figther. However I've never seen any drawing or read any specs.

 

[archipeppe]

I've heard the same about it, but no drawings at all.

My opinion that Cavour could or would become a true STOBAR (like the two Kunzetov, the two Chinese CVs and the Vikramanditya) but it is too small to be a CATOBAR. Furthermore the Cavour was designed from since with the F-35B in mind (a capability that she should reach during this 2020).

 

[ceccherini]

I've heard the same about it, but no drawings at all.

My opinion that Cavour could or would become a true STOBAR (like the two Kunzetov, the two Chinese CVs and the Vikramanditya) but it is too small to be a CATOBAR. Furthermore the Cavour was designed from since with the F-35B in mind (a capability that she should reach during this 2020).

Vikrant is basically the STOBAR variant of Cavour so it is plausible but maybe only with a something larger size. In the time frame of Cavour's planning (1995-2000) JSF's design was not even chosen and so it was very possible that the fighter would never see the light of the day. Probably MM was just working on a worst case scenario where no new generation stovl aircraft would be produced and the carrier would have to be adapted for conventional take off and landing.

 

[Tzoli]

Once I've read that in the design phase MM briefly evaluated to adopt a CATOBAR or STOBAR configuration for Cavour with the intention of operate a navalized variant of the Typhoon figther. However I've never seen any drawing or read any specs.

With this short take-off I could imagine a carrier supporting a squadron of these:

 

[airman]

Cavour is Stovl Carrier and will carry F-35B instead Av8 .

 

[ceccherini]

Once I've read that in the design phase MM briefly evaluated to adopt a CATOBAR or STOBAR configuration for Cavour with the intention of operate a navalized variant of the Typhoon figther. However I've never seen any drawing or read any specs.

With this short take-off I could imagine a carrier supporting a squadron of these:

Surely. Problem is you can't support the investment of developing a largely new aircraft just to get a dozen or two. The only viable option to have a naval Typhoon was to cooperate with the Royal Navy, herself engaged in similar considerations for the CVF and a partner in Typhoon program. Industrially Jsf was a better deal in technological return but overall a Sea Typhoon would probably be better for both Britain and Italy in commercial term.

 

[Tzoli]

Were there any carrier designs both for "home" use and for export which would utilise the EF-2000N Naval Typhoon?

 

[ceccherini]

Were there any carrier designs both for "home" use and for export which would utilise the EF-2000N Naval Typhoon?

Up to the year 2001 Typhoon was a candidate for the aircraft component to be employed on the CVF, the future Queen Elizabeth. After that EF-2000N has been discussed mainly in relation to the Indian carrier program but after the selection of Rafale by the Indian Air Force in 2012 I've never heard anything more about it.

 

[World B4]

Interesting video of onbard operation (takeoff and landing) of Italian Blackshape two seat full composite materials trainer from Italian Carrier Count of Cavour during 2014 trials.

In that occasion the Blackshape BS 100 Prime becomed the first conventional aircraft to operate onboard an Italian carrier, since all other types both fixed wing (AV-8B+ and F-35B) and rotary wing (AB-412, NH-90 and EH-101) are STOVL or helicopter.

Hope I don't come off as dumb for asking but... why did they do this?

 

[Pioneer]

Once I've read that in the design phase MM briefly evaluated to adopt a CATOBAR or STOBAR configuration for Cavour with the intention of operate a navalized variant of the Typhoon figther. However I've never seen any drawing or read any specs.

With this short take-off I could imagine a carrier supporting a squadron of these:

Yes spectacular, but one would assume the take-off performance would be somewhat lengthened with a factual fuel load, let alone an actual combat weapons load.

Regards
Pioneer

 

[ceccherini]

Interesting video of onbard operation (takeoff and landing) of Italian Blackshape two seat full composite materials trainer from Italian Carrier Count of Cavour during 2014 trials.

In that occasion the Blackshape BS 100 Prime becomed the first conventional aircraft to operate onboard an Italian carrier, since all other types both fixed wing (AV-8B+ and F-35B) and rotary wing (AB-412, NH-90 and EH-101) are STOVL or helicopter.

Hope I don't come off as dumb for asking but... why did they do this?

Marketing of the light aircraft

 

[archipeppe]

Marketing of the light aircraft

Yes, and from the other side the demonstration by Italian Navy to handle fixed wing conventional aircraft (even if light and small) from the flight deck of its carriers.
Maybe a lesson for cooperation with other Italian airforces (e.g. Esercito Italiano)?

 

[ceccherini]

Marketing of the light aircraft

Yes, and from the other side the demonstration by Italian Navy to handle fixed wing conventional aircraft (even if light and small) from the flight deck of its carriers.
Maybe a lesson for cooperation with other Italian airforces (e.g. Esercito Italiano)?

If I remember well this demonstration was carried out during a Cavour trip to Qatar in which the carrier was used as a showcase for national defence and aeronautic products.

 

[airman]

Unique conventional aircraft carriers were Aquila and Sparviero built and not completed during ww2 .

 

[archipeppe]

Unique conventional aircraft carriers were Aquila and Sparviero built and not completed during ww2 .

Obviously all we know it, this is not in topic with such thread that talks about Italian "modern" carriers (Garibaldi, Cavour and Trieste) and not the historical (and never commissioned) ones that are treated on other threads.

 

[Jemiba]

Indeed ! But an interesting experiment nevertheless !
(thread moved)

 

[archipeppe]

Indeed ! But an interesting experiment nevertheless !
(thread moved)

My dear Jemiba, thank you for the correct location of such thread.

Ciao
Giuseppe

 

[apparition13]

Does anyone have an idea of how much bigger the air wing could be if all the troop-carrying facilities were removed and replaced with hangar/air wing space? A wing of 20-24 seems small given the size of the ship. Wasp and America aren't much bigger (in terms of dimensions, not displacement), and have air wings of 35 or so with much more extensive amphibious assault facilities.

 

[helmutkohl]

Does anyone have an idea of how much bigger the air wing could be if all the troop-carrying facilities were removed and replaced with hangar/air wing space? A wing of 20-24 seems small given the size of the ship. Wasp and America aren't much bigger (in terms of dimensions, not displacement), and have air wings of 35 or so with much more extensive amphibious assault facilities.

Cavour is a standard helicopter/stovl carrier. You might be thinking of Trieste which has space for LHD operations that could possibly be converted like America

based on this graphic i counted
25 F-35s and 17 helicopters
maybe if we left 4 helicopters
then we could have space for 31 or 32 F-35s

another picture i found

as you can see, no more space for besides the deck and hangar

 

[TomS]

There's one thing odd about those drawings. They have three helos parked on the forward elevator in the hangar. I don't see any way for that to work -- if the elevator is up, you can't park aircraft under it, if it's down, there's quite a hole in the hangar roof.

 

[paralay]

,

 

[helmutkohl]

There's one thing odd about those drawings. They have three helos parked on the forward elevator in the hangar. I don't see any way for that to work -- if the elevator is up, you can't park aircraft under it, if it's down, there's quite a hole in the hangar roof.

its probably only for illustration purposes to show how many helicopters can fit on the elevator

 

[apparition13]

Cavour is a standard helicopter/stovl carrier. You might be thinking of Trieste which has space for LHD operations that could possibly be converted like America

They have space allocated for 360-450 marines and can act as a commando carrier for heliborne assault, similar to how QE can carry a (smaller) company of marines. If it's just berthing that wouldn't indicate much more in terms of aircraft or stores, but if there are other allocated spaces then it might.