Israeli 'Pereh' anti-tank missile carrier revealed...

[robunos]

Israrel has officially revealed the 'Pereh' anti-tank missile carrier, armed with Spike missiles...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-3171290/Israeli-secret-missile-launcher-disguised-TANK-finally-declassified-20-years-rumours-secret-missions.html


cheers,
Robin.

 

[TomS]

Thanks. Kind of amazing they kept it under wraps for 30 years. This feels like a vehicle role that would be very useful in other militaries -- a missile carrier robust to operate with the main armored force but with enough range to overmatch opposing ATGMs and perhaps even some artillery support.

 

[fightingirish]

Well, I am not an expert on tanks, but I knew since years, that the Israeli Army had a secret platform to fire anti-tank missiles which could be fired out of line of sight / target locked after launch like over a hill as an example. Probably the Spike NLOS missile.
I remember reading in a report that the platform at that time were M113 armored personnel carriers.
The only new thing to me is that Israeli Army is now using the M60 Patton main battle tank chassis disguised as a Merkava tank.

 

[TomS]

The Tamuz M113 carrier has been known for a few years. The new announcement is a version with heavy armor intended to operate with tank forces. And that has apparently been around for a long time.

BTW, it is built on an M-48 chassis. There is some speculation that they're revealing it now because all the other Magachs are retired so the Pereh is a maintence issue. I'd guess there may be a Merkava-based capability that hasn't been revealed yet.

 

[Abraham Gubler]

There is some speculation that they're revealing it now because all the other Magachs are retired so the Pereh is a maintence issue. I'd guess there may be a Merkava-based capability that hasn't been revealed yet.

It was outed a few years ago firing reprisal strikes in the Golan. The IDF is reforming their armoured brigades to add an ISR and PGM equipped battalion to each one so this class of system (over the horizon guided missile) is going to be more widespread than the IDF's previous/current two special artillery battalions that are equipped with it.


I doubt the maintenance issue is that important because the IDF ordnance corps has a long history of keeping systems in service well past their normal use by date. Having withdrawn the Magach from service as tanks just means they have plenty of spares for a range of derivative vehicles that are still in service (including M88 ARVs). When I visited Tel haShomer a few years ago they still had a hangar working on a few Centurion gun tanks. Sure they were breaking them down for scrap metal to offset costs of Merkava production but things tend to hang around there for a long time.

 

[Pioneer]

Well congratulations Israel and the IDF for keeping it under wraps for 30 years!
I truly thought and feared that most democratic countries/militaries had forgotten the strategic art of keeping weapons systems out of the knowledge of their enemies!
Also another example, so typical of Israel and the IDF to recycle/re-allocate an older design (in this case the M60 MBT) in a useful role!!


Regards
Pioneer

 

[eshelon]

Beside mobile launchers on M48 and M113 chassis also exists towed, 4-canister launcher.

 

[Abraham Gubler]

Well congratulations Israel and the IDF for keeping it under wraps for 30 years!
I truly thought and feared that most democratic countries/militaries had forgotten the strategic art of keeping weapons systems out of the knowledge of their enemies!

I doubt there has been any strategic surprise. As JFC Fuller says the IDF over the horizon ATGMs have been well known for the past 20 odd years. And they certainly did not have Spike NLOS missiles in service back in 1985. That missile family configuration had only just being designed by Hughes engineers at that time. The IDF did have the Tamuz missile in service from 1981 and its guidance technology was migrated to the Hughes AAWS-M aka RAFAEL Spike missile configuration to create the Spike NLOS. But that has only been a relatively recent event. Tamuz was developed as a response to the Yom Kippur War in 1973 to give the IDF an “assault breaker” capability against Arab tank formations.

And the IDF even publicly unveiled the Tamuz missile firing M113 system a few years ago. It’s just that now they have unveiled the Spike NLOS missile firing M48 system. Same capability as the Tamuz just with a more compact and numerous missile and a more survivable firing platform.

As to the strategic art of keeping weapon systems hidden away no one does this better than the USA and their “Black World” programs. Plenty of hidden capability and ambiguity there. You can even fill a library with speculative books written about what is hidden there not to mention create an entire conspiracy theory genre.

 

[John21]

Well congratulations Israel and the IDF for keeping it under wraps for 30 years!
I truly thought and feared that most democratic countries/militaries had forgotten the strategic art of keeping weapons systems out of the knowledge of their enemies!

I doubt there has been any strategic surprise. As JFC Fuller says the IDF over the horizon ATGMs have been well known for the past 20 odd years. And they certainly did not have Spike NLOS missiles in service back in 1985. That missile family configuration had only just being designed by Hughes engineers at that time. The IDF did have the Tamuz missile in service from 1981 and its guidance technology was migrated to the Hughes AAWS-M aka RAFAEL Spike missile configuration to create the Spike NLOS. But that has only been a relatively recent event. Tamuz was developed as a response to the Yom Kippur War in 1973 to give the IDF an “assault breaker” capability against Arab tank formations.

And the IDF even publicly unveiled the Tamuz missile firing M113 system a few years ago. It’s just that now they have unveiled the Spike NLOS missile firing M48 system. Same capability as the Tamuz just with a more compact and numerous missile and a more survivable firing platform.

As to the strategic art of keeping weapon systems hidden away no one does this better than the USA and their “Black World” programs. Plenty of hidden capability and ambiguity there. You can even fill a library with speculative books written about what is hidden there not to mention create an entire conspiracy theory genre.

Im just surprised it took this long for them to reveal it, pictures leaked out on the now defunct military photos.net site a few years back, caused a big brewhaha with people screaming OPSEC, frankly any ground asset in use is going to be hard to keep secret. And as far as the "Black" classified world goes, it's full of everything from secret Hypesonic platforms to underground bases to what-have-you, just have to try and sift through the BS.

Remember that British guy from a decade back who hacked into NASA and claimed that he found a list of Names of Commanding Officers and ships for a secret space fleet? The U.S. Tried to get him back to the States for trial for damaging NASA property but the U.K. Refused to extradite him because the punishment was not fitting the crime.

 

[SlickDriver]

The IDF has a huge advantage on keeping secrets that the rest of the world doesn't have. A majority of the population are veterans - far higher than any other country in the world. Also nearly everybody in the country has a friend or a relative serving.


That means when the IDF says "Don't talk about this, you will endanger the lives of soldiers" - everybody immediately thinks of those people and keeps quiet. They all have a personal stake in not revealing classified information.

 

[covert_shores]

The IDF has a huge advantage on keeping secrets that the rest of the world doesn't have. A majority of the population are veterans - far higher than any other country in the world.

agree with overall point but out of curiosity, is the last statement above correct? What about North Korea, Switzerland, Cuba?

 

[John21]

In terms of keeping military secrets for Switzerland...I have no clue, North Korea is already a closed and tightly controlled society and revealing military secrets there will get you and your family a bullet or a generations long sentence to labor camps, I assume it's the same with Cuba although they probably won't go all out on your family for the next 3 generations there.

 

[robunos]

http://www.janes.com/article/53506/analysis-idf-breaks-33-year-silence-on-m48-tamuz-missile-launcher

cheers,
Robin.

 

[dan_inbox]

A majority of the population are veterans - far higher than any other country in the world. Also nearly everybody in the country has a friend or a relative serving.

That means when the IDF says "Don't talk about this, you will endanger the lives of soldiers" - everybody immediately thinks of those people and keeps quiet. They all have a personal stake in not revealing classified information.

No need to put veterans in that picture. "A majority of the population" is well aware that its enemies want to annihilate it. That's enough personal stake...

 

[Talon_38C]

That missile family configuration had only just being designed by Hughes engineers at that time. The IDF did have the Tamuz missile in service from 1981 and its guidance technology was migrated to the Hughes AAWS-M aka RAFAEL Spike missile configuration to create the Spike NLOS

I wish someone would write a book about the Hughes defense empire. Half of the programs that I touch (mostly launchers and ejectors) seem to have had Hughes engineering behind it.