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Israeli Medium Weight Armored Vehicle Concept - Project Carmel?

bobbymike

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http://www.israeldefense.co.il/en/node/29665

https://special-ops.org/news/tech/sneak-peek-israeli-armys-new-tank/
 

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Moose

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This is one of those things that gets excoriated if the US Army proposes it, but now will get a fair shake because IDF.
 

Void

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It is still a rather goofy idea - it is trying to turn a tank into a rolling attack helicopter even though attack helicopters have proven to be extremely expensive, susceptible to ambushes, demanding to operate and incapable of sustained operations. In other words at odds with all the stated goals. It also returns to the persistent fallacy that substituting physical systems with virtual systems will make the weapon cheaper to own and operate; as if cutting-edge electronics and software are free or CS majors are cheaper to employ than mechanics.
 

Foo Fighter

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It seems more like a recce vehicle than a tank per se, I am always sceptical of media sources calling vehicles 'tanks' as they usually are not.
 

DWG

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It does look rather like a grown-up Scimitar.
 

dan_inbox

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Void said:
It is still a rather goofy idea - it is trying to turn a tank into a rolling attack helicopter
That's not the point of this concept, at least not to replace tanks where they're supposed to operate, ie in the open.

The future armored platform will be light, agile, small ... and designed primarily for operation in urban areas
Says exactly the opposite: provide protected fire support where tanks are too clumsy.

To me, this looks like heyl shiryon is building on the lessons drawn from fighting in high-rises urban areas, with the makeshift use of M163 Vulcans to reach the skyscrappers' upper storeys. It's creating a purpose-built vehicle with the right arc of fire and connectivity.

Urgency is increasing, with Iran upping their threats of a major war through their hezb'allah puppets now that they see the end of the Syrian quagmire. Last week Iranian generals spoke again about burning Haifa and TA. If they insist enough, the IDF just might have to go back to Beirut to clean them up, and those godcrazies will again use every densely populated area as hideout.
Hence the requirement for Carmel-type equipment...
_ _ _

On the design: I would question the use of caterpillars. For urban areas, 6x6 or 8x8 wheeled should be enough, and be faster, cheaper, longer-operating, etc.
 

bobbymike

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yasotay

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That is one bad-a$$ M-113!
 

jsport

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"We are looking at co or even bn capabilites based on a few Carmels and a few crew members alot of unmanned capabilites around it" ....sounds like the end of infantry to me.
 

Foo Fighter

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I think the infantry will be around for a long while yet.
 

jsport

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I think the infantry will be around for a long while yet.
from moral injury, to PTSD, to enduring bodily medical issues to increasing c2 complexity and cost per troop of networking and protective and even offensive gear the infantry presents never ending risk not counting the never ending risk of an infantryman being captured.
 
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Foo Fighter

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The risk of an infantryman being captured depends on the opponent and what they might do. TBH, there is very litle interest or care for the little guy in the military and everything you mention is basically part of the job. Until we get robots or cyborgs to do the job we will have the infantry soldier because they will still be the cheapest most adaptable choice. Armour is a little more rocky.
 

trose213

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The risk of an infantryman being captured depends on the opponent and what they might do. TBH, there is very litle interest or care for the little guy in the military and everything you mention is basically part of the job. Until we get robots or cyborgs to do the job we will have the infantry soldier because they will still be the cheapest most adaptable choice. Armour is a little more rocky.
I think that's pretty debatable on cost. It makes sense if you're the US, but other countries that have a draft. It might make sense if you're Israel to try and automate everything, but it does if you're Singapore.
 

jsport

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The risk of an infantryman being captured depends on the opponent and what they might do. TBH, there is very litle interest or care for the little guy in the military and everything you mention is basically part of the job. Until we get robots or cyborgs to do the job we will have the infantry soldier because they will still be the cheapest most adaptable choice. Armour is a little more rocky.
It would seem the Israelis don't agree.
Seems to replace infantry in the Vid
 
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