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Iranian Qaher-313 Silliness Topic

kcran567

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How dare you infidels insult the unique structure and glorious awesomeness of our Q-313 jet fighter.


Our military wears such glorious baseball caps.


Behold and tremble at our next air superiority fighter the Jhaz-314 intended to bomb the F-22 from space.
 

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kaiserbill

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It is fairly obvious that Iran has a two tier programme going.

The not so impressive conventional armaments are aimed squarely at regional neighbours, or to maintain capability/training.
In this, it can be argued that a lot of it is adequate, particularly in a defensive posture.

The other tier is based squarely on assymetrical warfare and ballistic missiles, to achieve defined goals.

This is a sensible strategy at the moment, given the circumstances.
 

JFC Fuller

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kaiserbill said:
It is fairly obvious that Iran has a two tier programme going.

The not so impressive conventional armaments are aimed squarely at regional neighbours, or to maintain capability/training.
In this, it can be argued that a lot of it is adequate, particularly in a defensive posture.

The other tier is based squarely on assymetrical warfare and ballistic missiles, to achieve defined goals.

This is a sensible strategy at the moment, given the circumstances.

But the regional neighbours, at least in equipment terms, could trounce Iran's conventional forces.
 

kaiserbill

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JFC Fuller said:
kaiserbill said:
It is fairly obvious that Iran has a two tier programme going.

The not so impressive conventional armaments are aimed squarely at regional neighbours, or to maintain capability/training.
In this, it can be argued that a lot of it is adequate, particularly in a defensive posture.

The other tier is based squarely on assymetrical warfare and ballistic missiles, to achieve defined goals.

This is a sensible strategy at the moment, given the circumstances.

But the regional neighbours, at least in equipment terms, could trounce Iran's conventional forces.

I personally seriously doubt any of their neighbours could use their conventional forces to successfully invade, and indeed even hold, a worthwhile amount of Iranian territory. And I'm including Turkey here.

And picking just one sphere for an example, how many submarines do the neighbours sharing waters around Iran operate?
 

JFC Fuller

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kaiserbill said:
I personally seriously doubt any of their neighbours could use their conventional forces to successfully invade, and indeed even hold, a worthwhile amount of Iranian territory. And I'm including Turkey here.

And picking just one sphere for an example, how many submarines do the neighbours sharing waters around Iran operate?

Who said anything about invading? There are plenty of other things for them to squabble about. Lets pick a whole bunch of other spheres, surface warships, main battle tanks, fast-jets, surface to air missiles, AWACS, etc.
 

chuck4

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I think the major potential conventional adversary of Iran is Saudi Arabia. Both countries vie for supremacy over the Persian Gulf region, one on behalf of the Shiites, the other the Sunnis.

There might be a distant possibility of conventional conflict with Turkey, but with Turkey increasingly pursuing an independent foreign policy separate from NATO or EU, and more in the interest of advancing Turkish influence over steppe Stans of the former Southern Soviet Union, I think the chances of outright war between Turkey and Iran are low.

Israeli threat to Iran will primarily be in the form of surgical strikes against specific targets in Iran, and unconventional warfare against Iranian influences outside Iran. It seems unlikely there would be any real large scale conventional conflict between the two.
 

kaiserbill

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JFC Fuller said:
kaiserbill said:
I personally seriously doubt any of their neighbours could use their conventional forces to successfully invade, and indeed even hold, a worthwhile amount of Iranian territory. And I'm including Turkey here.

And picking just one sphere for an example, how many submarines do the neighbours sharing waters around Iran operate?

Who said anything about invading? There are plenty of other things for them to squabble about. Lets pick a whole bunch of other spheres, surface warships, main battle tanks, fast-jets, surface to air missiles, AWACS, etc.

Actually I deliberately worded it like that for obvious reasons.
Invading is the whole point.

Iran hasn't fought outside it's borders with conventional forces since it was obliged to defend itself after Iraq invaded it.
That's longer than some of the posters on this forum have been alive.

And they will not do so in the near future, due to the current political and intenational climate.
They do their fighting by proxy.

The central point thus stands: Iran simply has to keep it's conventional forces relatively competitive in relation to it's neighbours.
With a few obvious omissions, it is probably doing that. Certainly enough to deter an invasion from any neighbour.

It's assymetrical and missile forces, whilst not completely, are for the large part aimed at other entities who need no introduction.

Like I said, under the circumstances they find themselves in, it's actually a smart policy.
 

JFC Fuller

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kaiserbill said:
The central point thus stands: Iran simply has to keep it's conventional forces relatively competitive in relation to it's neighbours.
With a few obvious omissions, it is probably doing that. Certainly enough to deter an invasion from any neighbour.

No its not, its failing miserably.
 

kaiserbill

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JFC Fuller said:
kaiserbill said:
The central point thus stands: Iran simply has to keep it's conventional forces relatively competitive in relation to it's neighbours.
With a few obvious omissions, it is probably doing that. Certainly enough to deter an invasion from any neighbour.

No its not, its failing miserably.

There are a neighbours conventional forces invading and operating with impunity in Iran as we speak?

This is big news!

Either way, this is off topic, and should really be discussed in a different section/thread, methinks.
 

JFC Fuller

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kaiserbill said:
There are a neighbours conventional forces invading and operating with impunity in Iran as we speak?

You said relatively competitive, they are not.
 

kaiserbill

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JFC Fuller said:
kaiserbill said:
There are a neighbours conventional forces invading and operating with impunity in Iran as we speak?

You said relatively competitive, they are not.
They are indeed.
They have not been invaded in an extremely unstable part of the world.
They are the only local navy in the Persian Gulf and the Gulf of Oman operating submarines.

Even with their relatively elderly equipment, none of the neighbouring countries Oman, UAE, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Iraq, Turkey, Georgia, Azerbaijan, Turkmenistan, Afghanistan, or Pakistan have the wherewithall of carrying out a successful invasion, or holding onto initial gains.

These are the facts.

JC, I hate the theocracy in Iran as much as the next man. I long for the day when it is consigned to the dirtbin.
Still, Irans strategy is a smart one, considering.
Their finite resources are geared toward 2 scenarios, and I think in thecircumstances, it is the right strategy. Iran does not have a history of invading anyone in living memory.
I think it would be illuminating if a poster could perhaps list the last few times Iran invaded another country, other than when it reacted to being invaded by Saddam
Their conventional forces are predicated toward defence, with all the advantages that come with that.

Anyhow, although it would probably be a most interesting discussion JC, I'm only going to discuss the Qaher 313 from here on, for the other posters on the forums' sanity. ;D
 

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Deino said:
???


Iran Is Desperately Defending Its Non-Flying 'Stealth Jet'

Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/iran-desperately-to-defend-stealth-jet-non-flying-2013-2

On Feb. 4, a couple of days after the entire world highlighted the oddities of the first prototype of its Qaher 313 stealth fighter jet and the reasons why the F-313 will never get off the ground, the Iranian MEHR News Agency published an article to explain the aircraft’s top features. (Check out the video here)
The F-313′s top 10 features piece addresses some of the doubts surrounding the Qaher and its ability to fly and are aimed to persuade skeptics that Tehran’s new aircraft is not only airworthy, but it is also “one of the most sophisticated fighter jet in the world,” as Ahmadinejad said.
Here below you’ll find a long excerpt of the MEHR article:
The top 10 technical characteristics of the F-313 fighter jet and some of the related data on its features and appearance:
1- Using Two inlets and inlet ducts make up the air induction system to deliver air to the engine. Due to an indirect angle of the engine to the air inlets, the radar reflectivity is reduced, and it makes angled design of inlet ducts to the surface to get radar energy wave, just like in F35.
2- The hot exhaust gas mixes with cold air through the inlet ducts, and gets cooler before it gets out of the exhaust system, to reduce heat effects on the surface of the aircraft.
3- Use of radar-absorbent materials in the body, to absorb wave energy and reduce radar reflection, for greater stealth effect of Qaher F-313 fighter.
4- Considering the estimated length and height of the aircraft is less than 16 and 4 meter, the two compartments with payload capacity of carrying two 2000 pound bombs, or greater number of smaller smart guided missiles, or at least 6 air-to-air missiles in the category of R-17 or PL-12.
5- Relatively large vertical tail surface has created favorable directional stability and with canted vertical tails create aerodynamic benefits as well specific appropriate lateral maneuvering capabilities.
6- The very large canopy gives a 360 degree visibility, which is essential for low altitude fly-by flights, especially helps ground mission attacks, and it is also very useful in close dog-fights.
7- The angled wings is perfect example of indigenous design for aircrafts, which gives a side profile like M, and similar to a W profile, is the best form to use in aircrafts.
8- Single-cycle landing gear is another proof that F-313 is a light weight aircraft, with minimum flying weight of 12 to 14 ton, and maximum flying weight of 20 ton.
9- There are 8 analog displays in the cockpit, which shows Multi-Function Display (MFD) technology has more room to improve in F-313, Qaher fighter jet.
10- Considering F-313 normal steering lever, the control systems, with the wing movable surfaces, rudder, and vertical stabilizer are hydraulics, and not fly-by-wire (FBW) system, since many today’s aircraft use “side-steering lever” control.
The advance computer designing software (CATIA) were used for designing F-313, and aerodynamic analysis methods such as computational fluid dynamics (CFD) also were used, with the help of numerical grid generation software (GAMBIT), flow analysis software (FLUENT) and other design computation software, which shows a complete scientific work in various areas of indigenous scientific and technology was used for F-313.
These 10 features don’t change what already written about this odd plane. I still believe it can’t fly as it is today.
Read more:
http://www.businessinsider.com/iran-desperately-to-defend-stealth-jet-non-flying-2013-2#ixzz2KF9aSYaZ
And they continue to dig the hole deeper (good find BTW Deino).

Come on Iran; just admit it's a mockup designed by a comic-book artist. You could have worried us if you had just said it was a concept for a light attack plane; but claiming that it's in the F-35's class is just going to make you look like complete clowns.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_n5E7feJHw0
 

kaiserbill

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Sticking to the topic, I see there is mention in that article just posted by Deino of the intake system.

The way this article is written is strangely convoluted, but they do seem to be implying in points 1 and 2 that those dorsal intakes with the red covers are not the only intakes.

This ties in with the earlier observation that just below these intakes, ventrally under the wings just before the main undercarriage, are two angles that precisely fit the location where the intakes should be.

This further confirms (as if it were needed) that this is simply a mock-up, as these two angles are there, but not open.
 

TaiidanTomcat

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Deino said:
[/quote]

Not a bold assertion since the canopy doesn't lock and on another forum someone pointed out that the gear don't have retraction mechanics either. Iran looks even more foolish when they try to pass this 2X2000 lb bomb crap. Even the F-35B has reduced carriage in the 2 X 1000 range. I would love to see a picture of just the doors on the bomb bay. I know it doesn't have a bomb bay, because if it did they would have pictures of that open with the ordnance on full display.

Airpower Australia's take:

Assessing the Qaher-313

Abstract:

test flight has provided sufficient high resolution imagery, video camera footage, and incidental disclosures to perform an initial technical, techno-strategic, and strategic assessment of this new high performance low observable multirole fighter design.

931752_orig.jpg


Analysis of qaher 313 prototype airframe shaping shows a design which has forward fuselage, inlet, upper fuselage, wing and tail surface airframe Very Low Observable (VLO/stealth) shaping which is highly competitive against the US F-22A Raptor and YF-23 ATF designs.

Analysis of Qaher-313 prototype airframe aerodynamic features shows a design which is superior to all Western equivalents, providing ‘extreme agility’, superior to that of the Su-35S, through much of the flight envelope. This is accomplished by the combined use of 3D thrust vector control of the engine nozzle, all moving surfaces, and refined aerodynamic design with relaxed directional static stability and careful mass distribution to control inertial effects.

931741_orig.jpg


The Qaher-313 is fitted with unusually robust high sink rate undercarriage, intended for STOL operations.

6sqntestcell.jpg


The modified TF-30 engine fitted to the Qaher-313 is capable of at least 50,000 lb. of dry thrust, and carries stealthy internal stealth vectoring nozzles.

The available evidence demonstrates at this time that a mature production Qaher-313 design has the potential to compete with the F-22A Raptor in VLO performance from key aspects, and will outperform the F-22A Raptor aerodynamically and kinematically. Therefore, from a technological strategy perspective, the Qaher-313 renders all legacy US fighter aircraft, and the F-35 Lightning II Joint Strike Fighter, strategically irrelevant and non-viable after the Qaher-313 achieves IOC in 2013.

Detailed strategic analysis indicates that the only viable strategic survival strategy now remaining for the United States is to terminate the Joint Strike Fighter program immediately, redirect freed funding to further develop the F-22 Raptor, and employ variants of the F-22 aircraft as the primary fighter aircraft for all United States and Allied TACAIR needs.

931740_orig.jpg


Multifaceted Bat Wing Design, aids in all aspect stealth.

With the current Qaher-313 configuration, which may well differ from a production configuration, stealth appears to be used primarily to deny an aerial opponent an early BVR firing opportunity, permitting the Qaher-313 to close to a distance where its superior energy performance, extreme agility and large internal missile payload permit it to dominate the close combat engagement.

The combination of aerodynamic design features for extreme agility, high thrust/weight performance supersonic cruise engines to provide supersonic persistence, and the large combat persistence provided by a large internal fuel load and large weapons loads, make the Qaher-313 the best fit to the Boyd “energy manoeuvrability” model yet to be developed.

The extreme agility of the Qaher-313 design, when employed harmoniously with the other 5th generation design features, opens up a range of new tactical options, not feasible with established or currently planned Western fighter designs.

931758_orig.jpg


Nose indicitive of superior "Pulse Det" radar. Wooden construction saves strategic material, weight, and aids in undetectable nature. Solar Black paint absorbs light to save fuel in oil-rich nation. FOD Guards are superior to all western designs.

Consider a conventional BVR tail chase engagement geometry against an operational Qaher-313 derivative air dominance fighter. A conventional fighter with legacy teen series class aerodynamic design and performance, an example being the F-35A Joint Strike Fighter, is positioned behind the Qaher-313, at a range of ~50 nm, with its X-band multimode radar locked and tracking, assuming that the Qaher-313 aircraft retains the high signature aft fuselage and nozzle design.

The use of extreme agility design features would permit the Qaher-313 derivative to perform reversal manoeuvres faster than conventional fighter designs, causing the pursuing fighter to lose radar lock as the Qaher-313 presents its VLO class nose aspect to the pursuing fighter. Within seconds the Qaher-313 can establish a weapons lock, as the weapon system will have established the position and identity of the pursuing fighter during the immediately preceding tailchase. The pilot of the initially pursuing fighter will then be presented with a salvo of mixed seeker equipped BVR missiles closing at high speed on a reciprocal heading.

The full tactical potential of extreme agility, especially in BVR engagements, remains to be explored at this time, as most studies to date have been strongly focussed on the close combat advantages arising from this flight regime.

931760_orig.jpg


Pilot Demonstrating aerial push button screen, Canopy showing stealth sealant, removing the need for complicated metallic hooks. Compact ejection seat the best in the world. Classified "Desert Mirage" Canopy shows visual distortion capability unheard of in the west. Spartan and simplified controls aid in combat ability, lack of bulky HUD further show superior helmet mounted queuing.

What is abundantly clear from the basic design of the Qaher-313, is that this aircraft is the only design globally, which will be credibly capable of competing with the F-22 Raptor in air combat. It is also a much better fit to the stated, but very poorly implemented in the F-35, intent for a multi-service multirole fighter.

;D

OK OK The bold parts are mine. ITS ALL A JOKE. The rest is Pure APA with "Pak Fa" removed and Qaher-313 substituted. No I am not kidding:

http://www.ausairpower.net/APA-2010-01.html
 

2IDSGT

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TaiidanTomcat said:
Airpower Australia's take:

Assessing the Qaher-313...
Not seeing a link to any 313 articles... my bad if you're only joking; as if I needed any more reasons to not take APA seriously.
 

TaiidanTomcat

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2IDSGT said:
TaiidanTomcat said:
Airpower Australia's take:

Assessing the Qaher-313...
Not seeing a link to any 313 articles... my bad if you're only joking; as if I needed any more reasons to not take APA seriously.

Its a joke.
 

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kaiserbill said:
Sticking to the topic, I see there is mention in that article just posted by Deino of the intake system.

The way this article is written is strangely convoluted, but they do seem to be implying in points 1 and 2 that those dorsal intakes with the red covers are not the only intakes.

This ties in with the earlier observation that just below these intakes, ventrally under the wings just before the main undercarriage, are two angles that precisely fit the location where the intakes should be.

This further confirms (as if it were needed) that this is simply a mock-up, as these two angles are there, but not open.
Wow, just... wow.
 

TaiidanTomcat

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2IDSGT said:
kaiserbill said:
Sticking to the topic, I see there is mention in that article just posted by Deino of the intake system.

The way this article is written is strangely convoluted, but they do seem to be implying in points 1 and 2 that those dorsal intakes with the red covers are not the only intakes.

This ties in with the earlier observation that just below these intakes, ventrally under the wings just before the main undercarriage, are two angles that precisely fit the location where the intakes should be.

This further confirms (as if it were needed) that this is simply a mock-up, as these two angles are there, but not open.
Wow, just... wow.

23rd_inflatable_tank.jpg


Could hint at hover ability.
 

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Indeed , the way the fuselage is shaped , getting wider just in line with the canard , screams for side intakes. Maybe , indeed , some higher-ups seen that jet powered model, which do have some small over fuselage intakes for the miniature jet engine it carries , and demanded an exact copy ? I can't explain otherwise the fuselage shape, it just looks like the real intakes are blanked off. Would love to see closer and better shots of that jet powered model.
 

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lancer21 said:
Indeed , the way the fuselage is shaped , getting wider just in line withe canard , screams for side intakes. Maybe , indeed , some higher-ups seen that jet powered model, which do have some small over fuselage intakes for the miniature jet engine it carries , and demanded an exact copy ? I can't explain otherwise the fuselage shape, it just looks like the real intakes are blanked off. Would love to see closer and better shots of that jet powered model.
Set too far back. Intakes in that spot would only be good for gear-well ventilation. My guess those particular lines came about as an effort to make the front look "more pointy" for the people in charge.

Sorry to bring this movie up again, but I found a better clip.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=36MSXRPjfLk
 

kaiserbill

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2IDSGT said:
kaiserbill said:
Sticking to the topic, I see there is mention in that article just posted by Deino of the intake system.

The way this article is written is strangely convoluted, but they do seem to be implying in points 1 and 2 that those dorsal intakes with the red covers are not the only intakes.

This ties in with the earlier observation that just below these intakes, ventrally under the wings just before the main undercarriage, are two angles that precisely fit the location where the intakes should be.

This further confirms (as if it were needed) that this is simply a mock-up, as these two angles are there, but not open.
Wow, just... wow.

It is fairly obvious from every single one of your posts on anything remotely do to with Iran that you loathe and hate the place.

It drips through, and seems to distort your ability to calmy and neutrally figure out the truth of what is going on with regards to their actual capabilities and if they are progressing or simply treading water.

That is nice for you.

Like most others, I despise the governing theocracy.
But I have the ability to control my emotions and attempt to rationally analyse what is going on within their programmes from the little bits of twisted, distorted tidbits we get to see.

This is what this forum is about. It has more sensible, level-headed posters than just about any military/aerospace forum on the internet. This is valued highly by myself, as I'm sure it is by most of the others.
Have you considered that a forum such as MilitaryPhotos.net, or the once great but now sadly reduced keypublishing forum may perhaps be forums better suited for yourself?
 

2IDSGT

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kaiserbill said:
Have you considered that a forum such as MilitaryPhotos.net, or the once great but now sadly reduced keypublishing forum may perhaps be forums better suited for yourself?
Trying so hard to take this seriously, I'd say you're the one that's out of place on this particular thread. Have some fun for crying out loud. BTW, finding Iran's empty bombast hilarious doesn't constitute hate-speech.
 

kaiserbill

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2IDSGT said:
kaiserbill said:
Have you considered that a forum such as MilitaryPhotos.net, or the once great but now sadly reduced keypublishing forum may perhaps be forums better suited for yourself?
Trying so hard to take this seriously, I'd say you're the one that's out of place on this particular thread. Have some fun for crying out loud. BTW, finding Iran's empty bombast hilarious doesn't constitute hate-speech.
Dude.
So far in this thread, you have posted a Futurama clip, a clip from The Dictator, a Telegraph article of an Iranian terrorist blowing his legs off in Thailand, and an answer that went: "wow...just wow", amongst other posts sniping at the Iranians in general.
I'm here to discuss the Qaher 313.
I'm in the right thread.
You're not.
You're looking for "The Bar" for off-topic conversations.
That's 2 or 3 places below "Aerospace" on the forum list.

That's where I have my fun, and cry out loud at the bad jokes.
 

TaiidanTomcat

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When Iran does something funny they get laughed at and not taken seriously. I feel even they can detect this as they decided they needed to "clarify" capabilities (shared by Deino on the last page)

When they do something serious we will take them seriously. Its simple.

How does a mock aircraft tell us anything about them? If Iran debuts a model of the Starship Entrerprise are we supposed to analyse that for hints of their interstellar combat capability? How hard should you read into propaganda as "secret insight"?

This is a joke. This topic could equally be for The Bar. Continue to analyze the Hidden agenda of the road-crossing chicken. ::)
 

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kaiserbill said:
I'm here to discuss the Qaher 313.
Well, that's a problem because there isn't a whole hell of a lot to discuss. It's either a lame fake or nothing close to what the Iranians themselves are claiming. Either way, it's pure bluster worthy only of ridicule. If you're so desperate for everyone to be sober about it, go tell Ahmadinejad to keep the cameras further away next time.

And yes TT, this whole thread belongs in the bar, or maybe speculative projects.
 

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