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Hughes early postwar seaplane project

Skybolt

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In December 1945 US Navy ran an RFP for a 165.000 lbs patrol-boat with bombing, anishipping, anti-sub and SAR missions powered by 4 turboprops. Winner was Convair XP5Y-1, the Tradewind; other competitors were Martin (on this another topic) and, surprise, surprise, Hughes. Has anybody any more info on this project? Also, Howard Hughes in his 1947 Senate testimony hinted at a possibile turboprop re-engineing of the H-4... ??? Possible relation between the two? 8) Waiting your mighty sageness to unfold ;D

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TinWing

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Skybolt said:
In December 1945 US Navy ran an RFP for a 165.000 lbs patrol-boat with bombing, anishipping, anti-sub and SAR missions powered by 4 turboprops. Winner was Convair XP5Y-1, the Tradewind; other competitors were Martin (on this another topic) and, surprise, surprise, Hughes. Has anybody any more info on this project? Also, Howard Hughes in his 1947 Senate testimony hinted at a possibile turboprop re-engineing of the H-4... ??? Possible relation between the two? 8) Waiting your mighty sageness to unfold ;D

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Hughes was not a favored contractor.

The later success of Hughes in missile development shows just how capable the organization was, but during WWII, Hughes was denied access to both the latest engine technology and strategic materials.
 

Archibald

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To say the things correctly, Hughes was not an easy man to deal with! He was paranoid and manipulator, exentric and unpredictible. More, its aircraft firm didn't have enough tools for mass-production, a vital concept for the USA in WWII.
Add to that XF-11 bad flying qualities and low performances (compared to the Rainbow)...
Hughes aircraft finnally managed to reach a good status in missiles and satellites, but after Hughes influence on the firm diminished... same thing for TWA!
 

Skybolt

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Sure Hughes had a bad fame, but the Navy accepted his compnay's bid. BTW, if memory serves me correctly, at the moment Hughes responded the RFP, Howard was busy on the flight testing, ending with the crash, of the first XF-11. It would be interesting to know if he had time to follow the Navy bid too. I haven't been able to find a single reference to that bid in the HH biographies so far. From a company and personal point of view it would have been quite important... And
Hughes was denied access to both the latest engine technology and strategic materials.
, I think that this can be disputed... R-4360s weren't exactly "old" tech... ;), and in 1943 Hughes repeatedely refused to use aluminium in the construction of the HK-1 (source Charles Barton, Howard Hughes and his Flying Boat")
 

RyanCrierie

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Hughes had two seaplane projects in 1945-46: the Model 19 and Model 30.

Photos and data are from my visit to Archives II today.

They're disappointingly *conventional* in design...
 

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  • Hughes_Model_30.jpg
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RyanCrierie

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Some more information on the Model 19, specifically it's cockpit:
 

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  • Hughes Model 19 Pilots Control Pedestal.jpg
    Hughes Model 19 Pilots Control Pedestal.jpg
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Stargazer2006

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Splendid Ryan! We first learned of these in the morning, and saw their pics in the evening... How much faster can it get?!? ;D

Keep up the EXCELLENT WORK my friend...
 

RyanCrierie

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Model 19 Specs:

Gross Weight: 110,000 lbs
Top Speed: 254 MPH @ 3000 ft at maximum military power.
21,000 ft service ceiling
32.3 hr endurance @ 1,500 ft at cruising speed
Maximum Range: 4,500 miles @ 1,500 ft, at an average speed of 139.2 MPH
Wingspan: 167 ft 1.25 inches

Propulsion
4 x R-2800C-14s (2,100 hp @ 2800 RPM takeoff, 1,700 HP @ 2,600 RPM @ 8,500 ft normal power) with Hamilton Standard Super Hydromatic three bladed 16 foot diameter
290 gallons of oil in four tanks, divided equally.
5,780 gallons of fuel in two wing tanks (left wing/right wing) of equal size.

Armament:
Erco 250SH-3 power turret in nose with 2 x .50 Cal (400 rpg)
Erco 250TH-1 power turret on stbd. waist with 2 x .50 cal (400 rpg)
Erco 250TH-2 power turret on port waist with 2 x .50 cal (400 rpg)
Sperry A-17 power turret with 2 x .50 cal (800 rpg) in tail

Provisions for this internally

4 x 1000 lb bombs
or
2 x 2000 lb bombs
or
4 x 500 lb bombs
or
12 x 325 lb Depth cahrges
or
6 x 657 lb depth bombs

Provisions for this externally

2 x 2000 lb bombs (or mines)

Electronics:

APS-33 or APS-31 radar
 

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  • Hughes Model 19 GA_2bit.png
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  • Hughes Model 19 GA_16 color.png
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RyanCrierie

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Model 30 (April 1946):

Gross Weight: 150,000 lbs

Max Speed: 322 MPH @ 10,000 ft at military power
Maximum Range: 3,570 statute miles at an average speed of 194 mph, using partial 2 and 4 engine operations.
Maximum Range: 2,560 statue miles at an average speed of 278 MPH using all four engines at normal power.

Wingspan: 181' 11-7/16"

Powerplant:

4 x Westinghouse 25D Turboprops

Military:
3,150 SHP @ sea level
1,000 lbf thrust @ sea level

Normal:
2,500 SHP @ sea level
875 lbf thrust @ sea level

Fuel: 9,024 gallons in 16 self sealing fuel cells

Electronics (the really important stuff)
APS-31 Search Radar
APG-19 Tail Gunnery Radar

Armament:

Emerson 220 SE-102 turret with 2 x 20mm (400 rpg) in bow

Emerson Erco 220-TH-3 with 2 x 20mm (200 rpg) on waist
Emerson Erco 220-TH-4 with 2 x 20mm (200 rpg) on waist

Martin 220-CH4 with 2 x 20mm (500 rpg) in tail, controlled by APG-19 radar.

Internally in wing bomb bays:

4 x 1,000 lb
or
2 x 2,000 lb
or
8 x 500 lb
or
6 x 650 lb depth charges
or
12 x 325 lb depth charges

Externally under Wings:

4 x 2,000 lb bombs/mines

11 Man Crew:

Pilot
Co-Pilot
Navigator/Bombardier
Radio Man
Flight Engineer
Radar Operator
Countermeasures Operator
4 x Turret Gunners

Apologies for the reduced detail, I scanned this in at 1200 DPI to get the most detail out, as this was on a sheet of paper smaller than standard 8.5x11 paper. The raw image file is a 245 MB TIFF! :p
 

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  • Hughes Model 30 GA.png
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