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Hiro Kosho H1H, H2H, H3H and H4H flying boats

hesham

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Hi,

has anyone a drawing to Hiro H10H1 medium flying boat for 14-Shi
Specification ?,and it was never completed.
 

blackkite

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Hi! Pre WWⅡJapanese flying boats. The last one was H4H1 91-shiki 1 GO flying boat.
Sorry these are not unbuilt project.
Source:Imperial Japanese Navy Flying Boat (Great book!)
 

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blackkite

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Thanks Maveric.
Hiro Naval Arsenal (Hiro Kaigun kosho)= 広海軍工廠
呉海軍航空隊 = The IJN's seaplane base(perhaps sea planes were for ships in Kure base)
Tokyo(東京), Kyoto(京都), Osaka(大阪), Nagoya(名古屋)
 

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Maveric

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Sorry Alcides, I have no idea B)
 

blackkite

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blackkite

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Alcides said:

I understand the plane was developed for the navy, so the name HIRO. Is this right?
Yes it is!

It takes 1.5 hours from Tokyo to Hiroshima by jetliner(you can board Boeing 787), 3.5 hours by Shin-kansen.
It takes almost one hour from Hiro to Hiroshima by car.
Sorry for many off topics. I will answer your request soon. ;D
 

Stargazer2006

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The H3H of 1929 was also known as the Type 90-1 Long-range Reconnaissance Flying Boat. It competed with the Kawanishi H3K (or Type 90-2 Long-range Reconnaissance Flying Boat) which won and received the code name "Belle" during the war.

Hiro also did the H1H (Type 15 Flying Boat) and H2H (Type 89 Flying Boat), but the most interesting design of the series was the H4H (Type 91 Flying Boat):
 

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blackkite

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Hi!
Hiro sho H3H1(90-shiki, 1-go flying boat) and Short/Kawanishi H3K2(90-shiki, 2-go flying boat).
Source ; Imperial Japanese Navy Flying Boat, Shigeru Nohara, Kojinsha, (2007/10/2) ISBN978-4-7698-1363-7
 

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theponja

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Thanks blacktitte for another amazing 3d view of a not well know japanese Plane :) :) :)
Stargazer thanks a lot for the planes in the competition. Very interesting.
 

Stargazer2006

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Alcides said:
Stargazer thanks a lot for the planes in the competition. Very interesting.
Actually on second thought, I think that both the H3H and the H3K were procured, but the H3K was apparently favored.
Japanese military aircraft only received a "Type **" designation if they were procured. Am I right here, blackkite?
 

blackkite

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Hi Star! Perhaps you are right.
The IJN officially gave the name to H3H1 as 90-shiki 1-go flying boat and hoped to employ it nevertheless it's many troubles (luck of directional stability, poor elavator response and engine cooling problem),because H3H1 was developed by the IJN(Hiro kosho) but through long test period with many modifications, the IJN finally judged that it's difficult to solve all troubles fundamentally which H3H1 had.
Only one H3H1 was made.
Source ; Imperial Japanese Navy Flying Boat, Shigeru Nohara, Kojinsha, (2007/10/2) ISBN978-4-7698-1363-7
 

Stargazer2006

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New topic split from the old "Japanese Projects before 1945" thread...
 

blackkite

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Thanks Star. Nice effort!! :D
 

Tzoli

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Does anybody know anything (data, drawings maybe?) of the 1939 Project of Hiro?
The Hiro H10H1 Flying Boat / patrol Bomber?
 

blackkite

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In 1940, the IJN planned preparation of medium size flying boat (14-shi medium size flying boat, H10H1) to compensate for the lack of large size flying boats. In May 1940, Hiro kosho(Hiro sho) designed medium size flying boat under the guidance of Kugisho. Of course this plane was planned to be a high speed one.
In April 1941, when H10H1’s design finished 85%, major materials preparation almost finished, the IJN cancelled this project. H10H1 had a distinctive perfect stream lined fuselage with long step. The engine were 2×Mitsubishi Kinsei 50. Estimated maximum speed was 482km/h(260kt).
Source : http://www.geocities.co.jp/Bookend-Ohgai/3853/jnrs/jnrsC315.htm

And Kinsei engine.
http://www.enginehistory.org/Japanese/KINSEI.pdf
 

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Tzoli

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Thanks. Is there known what could be it's armament? Or this one too designated as a transport?
 

blackkite

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Tzoli said:
Thanks. Is there known what could be it's armament? Or this one too designated as a transport?
Sorry I can't find any other informations for this flying boat in Japanese sources.
Perhaps H10H1's role was same as 97-shiki large flying boat and 1-shiki large flying boat.
(Reconnaissance, torpedo bombing, bombing, anti submarine warfare, cargo transport and passenger transport)

97-shiki large flying boat
http://www.google.com/search?q=%EF%BC%99%EF%BC%97%E5%BC%8F%E9%A3%9B%E8%A1%8C%E8%89%87&hl=ja&tbo=u&tbm=isch&source=univ&sa=X&ei=yGWtUOLEK8mOmQX_-oDAAw&ved=0CD8QsAQ&biw=1366&bih=641

1-shiki latge flying boat
http://www.google.com/search?q=%EF%BC%99%EF%BC%97%E5%BC%8F%E9%A3%9B%E8%A1%8C%E8%89%87&hl=ja&tbo=u&tbm=isch&source=univ&sa=X&ei=yGWtUOLEK8mOmQX_-oDAAw&ved=0CD8QsAQ&biw=1366&bih=641#hl=ja&tbo=d&tbm=isch&sa=1&q=1%E5%BC%8F%E9%A3%9B%E8%A1%8C%E8%89%87&oq=1%E5%BC%8F%E9%A3%9B%E8%A1%8C%E8%89%87&gs_l=img.12...9081.11965.0.13834.3.3.0.0.0.0.75.200.3.3.0...0.0...1c.1.LziKX9EDjDQ&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.&fp=d6fa88818d7ca292&bpcl=38897761&biw=1366&bih=641
 

Tzoli

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Well she had similar powered engine than the Mitsubishi G3M Rikko Medium Bomber so we can assume a similar payload too of around 800-1000Kg of Bombs and possible two torpedoes.
As of Defensive armament similar to the Kawanishi H6K Mavis? Around 4 7.7mm Machien Guns?
 

blackkite

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Tzoli said:
Well she had similar powered engine than the Mitsubishi G3M Rikko Medium Bomber so we can assume a similar payload too of around 800-1000Kg of Bombs and possible two torpedoes.
As of Defensive armament similar to the Kawanishi H6K Mavis? Around 4 7.7mm Machien Guns?
Cool! B)
 

Stargazer2006

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Despite my efforts I haven't been able to locate the slightest image of the H10H project.

The H10H1 designation was allocated in 1939 to the Hiro Arsenal's Navy Experimental 14-Shi Medium-Sized Flying Boat program (14試中型飛行艇). The only sources I can find describe it as "not completed", which might indicate that work on a prototype might have begun before cancellation. At any rate I'm sure some plans or even sketches must have existed but I haven't been able to find any.

Can anyone help?
 

foiling

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Great model of a fine looking aircraft. Thanks.
 

blackkite

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Hi! I feel this model is little slim compared with 3 side view.
 

blackkite

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The Hiro navy arsenal performed the trial production of F-5 flying boat, R-3 flying boat, the 15 type flying boat, and the 89 type flying boat, and became the factory which had technology and experience about a flying boat most abundantly. And the trial production of the ambitious three-engine large-sized flying boat was started in the spring of 1930. This flying boat was a great work which should also be called all the first metal large-sized machines that Japanese designed.
The generalization person of design was lieutenant colonel Misao Wada, the design specialist person was major Jun Okamura.
The wing adopted Wagner style web beam box type structure of the Rohrbach flying boat, and the body was the structure into which the structure of the Southampton flying boat and the 89 type flying boat was developed.
In order to determine the form of the body in the design of this flying boat, a tank examination was carried out under the shipbuilding major general Yuzuru Hiraga(battle ship Yamato designer) of a navy technical research center.
The main characteristics of this flying boat were as follows.
1. This flying boat was the first three-engine type, and level flight was possible for it even if which one engine stopped.
2. The linear portion of wings was only a centre wing and the outer wing was a dynamically rational tapered wing.
The engineer was able to pass along the inside of the centre wing and was able to go under each engine.
3. Seaworthiness were fully taken into consideration.
4. The machine gun seat was installed in the nose of an airplane, the side part, and the caudal portion, and there was almost no dead angle.
5. Bomb loadage was 1 ton for the first time in the navy.
The trial production of No. 1 was completed in the Hiro navy arsenal in 1931, and was transported by Yokosuka by air, and the long-term test flight was carried out by Major Daisan Nakajima test pilot.
Although it was decided once that the name of a flying boat would be the 90 type 1go flying boat (H3H1), directional stability was insufficient and there was a problem also in the steering force of an elevator.
Moreover, poor cooling of the enigne occurred.
Three repair was carried out by these problems.
Prototype was called type 1 and after repair aircraft were called type 2, type 3 and type 4 respectively.
An auxiliary vertical stabilizer was added to a horizontal stabilizer of type 3 and type 4 aircraft.
For the setting angle of a horizontal stabilizer, the type of mounting of the support was changed.
Moreover, the radiator was moved to the rear of engine Nasser.
Propellers were also exchanged.
This flying boat was used as a test bed of 14 cylinders air cooling double row radial shape Mitsubishi Shinten 950hp engines, and the last as a test prototype was decorated in 1933.

Source : ENCYCLOPEDIA OF JAPANESE AIRCRAFT 1900-1945, VOL.3 KAWANISHI AND HIROSHO
 

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hesham

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Hi,


no drawing survivor for Hiro H101H ?.
 

blackkite

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hesham said:
Hi,


no drawing survivor for Hiro H101H ?.
Hi!
Generally In Japan, the design of the flying boat of a Hiro-naval arsenal is considered that H4H flying boat was the last.
However, on the other hand, a name with a Hiro-naval arsenal 14 trial medium size flying boat H10H can also be seen in the Japanese Internet site.
I have not yet seen the photograph about this flying boat, the drawing, the imaginary picture, etc.
I am going to investigate this flying boat to a slight degree.
 

blackkite

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As backup when a 9 shi large size flying boat plan (Kawanishi 97 type large size flying boat, H6K) goes wrong, the 9 shi medium size flying boat (Yokosuka-naval arsenal, H5Y) was planned.
Furthermore, possibly the 14 shi medium size flying boat (Hiro-naval arsenal,H10H) was the plan as backup of the ambitious 13 shi large size flying boat plan (Kawanishi 2 type large size flying boat, H8K).

The engine of H6K : Mitsubishi Kasei, take off power 1200hp.
The engine of H5Y : Mitsubishi Shinten, take off power 1010hp.

Source of the exact H5Y 3 side view drawing : Imperial Japanese Navy Flying Boat, Nohara Shigeru, Kojin sha, 2/10/2007, ISBN978-4-7698-1363-7

You can see the exact side window shape in the bottom picture.
 

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blackkite

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The shape of Aichi H9A, 2 type taining flying boat may be consulted at presumption of the shape of Hiro H10H flying boat.
I imagine that maximum speed of H10H was 450km/h class and the range of reconnaissance mission was 7000km class same as H8K.
Also I imagine that the engine was 1800hp Kinsei calss ×2. Perhaps H10H had a single tail stabilizer same as H8K.
 

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