• Hi Guest! Forum rules have been updated. All users please read here.

Helmut Gröttrup - project

Forsker

CLEARANCE: Restricted
Joined
Apr 22, 2020
Messages
7
Reaction score
2
I am looking for various information on USSR rocket designs being developed by the Helmut Gröttrup team. On the website: http: //www.astronautix.com/i/irbm.html and http://www.friends-partners.org/mwade/lvfam/earsiles.htm there are several such examples: G-1 (Г-1), G-4 (Г-4), R-3A (Р-3А). I am interested in the drawings on the basis of which a model could be made.
 

greenmartian2017

I really should change my personal text
Joined
May 13, 2008
Messages
79
Reaction score
42
If you would like to read more about the background (from the Western intelligence perspective) of the German experience in Russia's early missile program, I would suggest you attempt to track down (maybe a university library, or from the British Interplanetary Society itself) the following two-part article serial. If memory serves, part 1 had a bunch of illustrations with it. It was all part of Operation Dragon Return.


P. Pesavento, Before Sputnik: A Glimpse into What Western Intelligence Knew About Soviet Rocketry and Personalities. Part 1. Space Chronicle 63 (JBIS Supplement 2):63-91, 2010.

P. Pesavento, Before Sputnik: A Glimpse into What Western Intelligence Knew About Soviet Rocketry and Personalities. Part 2. Space Chronicle 64 (JBIS Supplement 1):25-44, 2011.
 

Forsker

CLEARANCE: Restricted
Joined
Apr 22, 2020
Messages
7
Reaction score
2
It is good that you have provided these book/article titles here. Unfortunately, I don't have access to them.

I am mainly interested in drawings with dimensions.
 

Forsker

CLEARANCE: Restricted
Joined
Apr 22, 2020
Messages
7
Reaction score
2
Looking at the projects created in the 1960/70s on the US side - Sprint / Hibex and later Soviet N1 and the current system S-300 (missile 9M82, 9M83), the same design approach was very innovative and ahead of everything that has been done so far. You can see how well thought out this project was, that it was copied in design even today (S-300).
 

antigravite

CLEARANCE: Top Secret
Joined
Apr 25, 2008
Messages
723
Reaction score
68
Hi

You'll find lots of contextual information and related stuff in Operation Osoaviakhim.

Some interesting references:
  • Wiki: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Osoaviakhim
  • Norman Naimark, The Russians in Germany. Harvard University Press, 1995
  • Paul Maddrell, Operation ‘Dragon Return’ in: Paul Madrell, Spying on Science: Western Intelligence in Divided Germany 1945-1961, Oxford Scholarship Online, 2006; https://www.oxfordscholarship.com/v...67507.001.0001/acprof-9780199267507-chapter-9
  • Paul Maddrell, "Western Intelligence Gathering and the Division of German Science," Cold War International History Project Bulletin, Issue 12/13 (Fall/Winter 2001), pp. 352–359.
  • Paul Maddrell, "Operation 'Matchbox' and the Scientific Containment of the USSR," in P. Jackson & J. Siegel (eds.), Intelligence and Statecraft: The Use and Limits of Intelligence in International Society ( Westport, CT : Praeger Publishers), (2005), pp. 173–206.
  • Paul Maddrell, "La Pénétration de la Zone Soviétique de l'Allemagne et de l'Union Soviétique par les Services de Renseignement Britanniques, 1945-1955," in J. Delmas & J. Kessler (eds.), Renseignement et Propaganda pendant la Guerre Froide (1947-1953) (Brussels: Editions Complexe), (1999), pp. 153–172.
A.
 
Last edited:

Forsker

CLEARANCE: Restricted
Joined
Apr 22, 2020
Messages
7
Reaction score
2
I know a little bit about German engineers in the Soviet Union. I am most interested in drawings (preferably with dimensions), which are really very few.
 

athpilot

Fly me to the moon...
Joined
Nov 18, 2012
Messages
300
Reaction score
102
Drawings with dimensions from the Gröttrup -Team itself (pc of Olaf Przybilski and Jürgen Michels). Since this book was released (in 1997) I never saw further drawings/sketches with dimensions. Pictured are the sketches of the G1/R10, the R12 series and the G4/R14 (general view, engine diagram, general dimensions calculation and calculations of the "Schnelle Spitze" [its new nosecone]).
I hope this helps.
Cheers,
Athpilot
 

Attachments

  • Jürgen Michels.jpg
    Jürgen Michels.jpg
    1.6 MB · Views: 43
  • G1_R10-01.jpg
    G1_R10-01.jpg
    264.7 KB · Views: 49
  • R12-01.jpg
    R12-01.jpg
    191.8 KB · Views: 52
  • G4_R14-01.jpg
    G4_R14-01.jpg
    93.3 KB · Views: 54
  • G4_R14-calculations-measurements.jpg
    G4_R14-calculations-measurements.jpg
    277.4 KB · Views: 49
  • G4_R14_schnelle Spitze.jpg
    G4_R14_schnelle Spitze.jpg
    535.2 KB · Views: 47
  • G4_R14_engine.jpg
    G4_R14_engine.jpg
    515.1 KB · Views: 45

Forsker

CLEARANCE: Restricted
Joined
Apr 22, 2020
Messages
7
Reaction score
2
Great. The drawings give an idea of the size of these rockets. The author had to follow the drawings from the link I gave at the beginning post. I think that more drawings are not generally available. Perhaps they are still uncovered in some archives.
 
Top