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Grumman F-14, Stories, Tests, etc.

KJ_Lesnick

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F-14 Wing and Pancake Thickness/Chord Ratios

What is the T/C ratio of the F-14's pancake and the T/C ratio of the aircraft's wings?

KJ Lesnick
 

AeroFranz

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F-14 spin tests involving non-standard canard

I found mention of some curious hydraulically-actuated canard surfaces used during the early phases of testing of the Tomcat. I am NOT talking about the glove vanes. These were mounted closer to the nose below the canopy rails level.

NASA 991 had numerous special additions for high-angle-of-attack and spin-recovery research. These included a battery-powered auxiliary power unit, a flight test nose boom, and a special spin recovery system, consisting of forward mounted, hydraulically actuated canards and an emergency spin chute.
It may be the black surfaces (shown retracted) seen on this picture, courtesy of NASA
http://www.nasaimages.org/luna/servlet/detail/nasaNAS~8~8~59984~163831:

Can anyone share more info about these tests and the canards themselves?
 

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F-14D

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Re: F-14 spin tests involving non-standard canard

AeroFranz said:
I found mention of some curious hydraulically-actuated canard surfaces used during the early phases of testing of the Tomcat. I am NOT talking about the glove vanes. These were mounted closer to the nose below the canopy rails level.

NASA 991 had numerous special additions for high-angle-of-attack and spin-recovery research. These included a battery-powered auxiliary power unit, a flight test nose boom, and a special spin recovery system, consisting of forward mounted, hydraulically actuated canards and an emergency spin chute.
It may be the black surfaces (shown retracted) seen on this picture, courtesy of NASA


Can anyone share more info about these tests and the canards themselves?
http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,3170.msg77980.html#msg77980


 

AeroFranz

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Re: F-14 spin tests involving non-standard canard

Mea culpa for not searching first! :-[
Thanks, the pics posted show the canards nicely.
 

F-14D

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Re: F-14 spin tests involving non-standard canard

AeroFranz said:
Mea culpa for not searching first! :-[
Thanks, the pics posted show the canards nicely.
To be honest, the main reason I knew where it was was because I put it there. ;)
 
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F-14 intake ramps

Does anyone have pictures of the marks indicating the ramp position of the F-14's intake ramps? What's the highest mach setting of the intake? If I recall correctly, the F-14's ramps has indicator marks going to Mach 2.8.
 

F-14D

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Re: F-14 intake ramps

RadicalDisco said:
Does anyone have pictures of the marks indicating the ramp position of the F-14's intake ramps? What's the highest mach setting of the intake? If I recall correctly, the F-14's ramps has indicator marks going to Mach 2.8.
Last time I had my head stuck in the intake of a Tomcat (that's not me in the picture), I don't remember seeing really dramatic markings, but then it wasn't an a/c fresh from the factory or NARF/NAD. Here're some shots
 

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Tailspin Turtle

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Re: F-14 spin tests involving non-standard canard

The non-standard canards for spin test and the description of their use didn't make any sense to me at first. Pictures show both of them deployed at the same time. They reportedly extended when the spin chute was released for spin recovery. However, to "break" the spin and begin recovery, you want to stop the rotation and make the nose go down (reduce the angle of attack); the "canards" would seem to act to keep the nose up. However, I finally found a NASA movie of spin-tunnel tests of the F-14 spin test that provided the explanation.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2mb2vFrfy_I
The spin chute combined with flight control application proved inadequate for spin recovery. As a result, these non-standard canards were added to the nose. However, only the one on the "inside" of the spin was deployed when the spin chute was released. Although still a bit counterintuitive, at least to me, it must have imparted a rolling and yawing moment that helped "break" the spin.
 

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AeroFranz

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Re: F-14 spin tests involving non-standard canard

These canards are also reminiscing of strakes. I wonder if part of their effect is not local, but rather downstream, i.e., at high alpha the surface sheds a vortex that modifies the airflow over the tail. However i suspect you'd deploy the surfaces symmetrically if that were the case...
 

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Re: F-14 spin tests involving non-standard canard

AeroFranz said:
These canards are also reminiscing of strakes. I wonder if part of their effect is not local, but rather downstream, i.e., at high alpha the surface sheds a vortex that modifies the airflow over the tail. However i suspect you'd deploy the surfaces symmetrically if that were the case...

Could be - I was hoping for a NASA report on the testing, either wind tunnel or actual aircraft, but had no luck finding one.
 

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Re: F-14 spin tests involving non-standard canard

It seems to me they behave more like a fence. Instead of allowing the flow to "flow" around the nose in a spin, I figured it stopped the circulation around the nose to create more yaw damping from the nose. That's just my guess at this point, though.
 

overscan (PaulMM)

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Re: F-14 spin tests involving non-standard canard

From Aero Series 25 - Grumman F-14 Tomcat by James P. Stevenson.
 

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Tailspin Turtle

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Re: F-14 spin tests involving non-standard canard

Sundog said:
It seems to me they behave more like a fence. Instead of allowing the flow to "flow" around the nose in a spin, I figured it stopped the circulation around the nose to create more yaw damping from the nose. That's just my guess at this point, though.

Possibly, but a fence probably wouldn't need to be that wide. See the strake on a helicopter tail boom which generates a side force in a hover from the rotor downwash.
 

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Re: F-14 spin tests involving non-standard canard

Tailspin Turtle said:
Could be - I was hoping for a NASA report on the testing, either wind tunnel or actual aircraft, but had no luck finding one.
I found mention and a photo of this on NTRS-Registered, at least one flight test report as well.

Utilization of simulation to support F-14A low altitude high angle of attack flight testing
NTRS Full-Text:
[PDF Size: 1.1 MB]
Author and Affiliation:
Conigliaro, P. (Grumman Aerospace Corp., Bethpage, NY, United States)
;
Goodman, R. (Grumman Aerospace Corp., Bethpage, NY, United States)

Abstract:
Ground-based flight simulation has been used successfully to support low altitude, asymmetric thrust, high angle of attack flight testing of the Grumman/Navy F-14A. The high risk nature of this flight testing, while representing a prime example of the application of simulation in the flight test environment, nonetheless generated particular problems regarding simulation fidelity and utilization requirements. As a result, new simulation capabilities were developed specifically for flight test support applications and were fully integrated into existing flight test computing/data analysis facilities. Results from the F-14 high angle of attack flight testing are used to illustrate how simulation can significantly enhance overall flight test safety and productivity. Using simulation support, an efficient test program was completed on time and allowed the F-14's departure characteristics to be safely demonstrated at angles of attack greater than 60 degrees with full engine thrust asymmetry at altitudes below 10,000 ft (3030 m).

Publication Date: Sep 01, 1986
Document ID: 19870014216 (Acquired Nov 04, 1995)
Accession Number: 87N23649
Subject Category: RESEARCH AND SUPPORT FACILITIES (AIR)
Document Type: Conference Paper
Publication Information: AGARD Flight Simulation; 15 p
Publisher Information: International Organization
Financial Sponsor: International Organization
Organization Source: Grumman Aerospace Corp.; Flight Test Dept.; Bethpage, NY, United States
Description: 18p; In English
Distribution Limits: Unclassified; Publicly available; Unlimited
Rights: Copyright; Distribution within the U.S. granted by agreement
NASA Terms:
AIRCRAFT MANEUVERS; AIRCRAFT SAFETY; AIRCRAFT SPIN; ANGLE OF ATTACK; COMPUTER PROGRAMS; COMPUTERIZED SIMULATION; CONTROLLABILITY; EXTERNAL STORES; F-14 AIRCRAFT; FLIGHT SIMULATORS; FLIGHT TESTS; LOW ALTITUDE; TELEMETRY
Imprint And Other Notes: In AGARD Flight Simulation 15 p (SEE N87-23633 17-09)
 

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sferrin

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Re: F-14 spin tests involving non-standard canard

Go to 43:00 (though there is a LOT of good stuff on this video).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gtq8IMvDbL0
 

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Re: F-14 spin tests involving non-standard canard

Just my two cents worth: The fence on a helicopter tail boom creates a relatively small and local change in airflow, think of it as a Gurney flap rather than a flight surface.

Most spinning occurs at very high angles of attack, and spin recovery problems sometimes result from airflow being blocked at other surfaces (like tail fins and stabs). I'm leaning towards Tailspin's theory that these F-14 canards were meant to change airflow much further back on the airframe. Maybe the asymmetric deployment has something to do with the fact that there are two vertical fins back there?
 

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Large Grumman F-14 Model

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Large-Grumman-F-14-Prototype-Desk-Top-Model-1971-/391517194094?hash=item5b283e476e:g:qQ4AAOSwhOVXexIW
 

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helmutkohl

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awesome link. we often don't hear much about Iran-Iraq air to air combat. ACIG had a lot of info, but some people seemed to scoff at the high number of kills made by Iranian F-14s.

I'm still a bit bummed that the type is retired in the USN.
 

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A reminder of just how big a 'bird' those Tomcats are.
 

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translation
Japanese F-15Js challenge USN F-14s back in 1980 in a mock fight
and F-15s lost
because the F-14s refused to dogfight and used AIM-54s

 

sferrin

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translation
Japanese F-15Js challenge USN F-14s back in 1980 in a mock fight
and F-15s lost
because the F-14s refused to dogfight and used AIM-54s

Fight to your strengths. The F-15s could have run the gauntlet and forced a dogfight. ;)
 

helmutkohl

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I'm still a bit bummed that the type is retired in the USN.
That decision was pure idiocy.
How many squadrons would still be operational? Where would spare parts come from? I think the tomcat died the day Cheney ordered tools destroyed.
yeah, there were quite a few defense decisions by that administration I didn't agree with
worse was that i recalled one political blamed Clinton for the end of the F-14s.
 
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