Gothaer Waggonfabrik (Gotha, GWF) Designations

Cy-27

ACCESS: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Jan 28, 2008
Messages
602
Reaction score
316
I have been collating my notes on Gotha aircraft recently and thought I would share the results.

It is by no means comprehensive (many projects in the P series missing) but it might provide a starting point for additional information from other members.

Broken down into four posts, which follow.

Gothaer Waggonfabrik

Gothaer Waggonfabrik (Gotha, GWF) was a German manufacturer of railway rolling stock established in the late nineteenth century at Gotha, now in Thuringia, Germany. During the two world wars, the company expanded into aircraft building.
The Gotha Taube was a variation of the Etrich Taube and was made by the GWF concern as the Land Eindekker (LE) series of monoplanes.
In World War I, Gotha was the manufacturer of a highly successful series of bombers based on a 1914 design by Oskar Ursinus. From 1917, these aircraft were capable of carrying out strategic bombing missions over England, the first heavier-than-air aircraft used in this role. Several dozen of these bombers were built in a number of subtypes - the Gotha G.I, G.II, G.III, G.IV, and G.V. This last variant was the most prolific, with thirty-six in squadron service at one point.

Whilst Germany was prohibited from military aircraft manufacture by the Treaty of Versailles, Gotha returned to its railway endeavours, but returned to aviation with the rise of the Nazi government and the abandonment of the Treaty's restrictions.

In 1921 the company purchased Automobilwerk Eisenach, thereby entering automobile production and, with the Dixi models playing an important part in expanding the German auto-market. However, the company encountered a cash crisis in 1928 and the Dixi branded auto-business was sold to BMW: the Dixi 3/15 DA-1 was rebadged in 1928 as the BMW 3/15 DA-2, the name by which today the little car is better remembered.

In 1924 the Cyklon Maschinenfabrik, a manufacturer that had concentrated on motor-bikes and cycle cars came, through a rather indirect route of company purchases and sales, to be merged into the larger Gothaer Waggonfabrik to become a serious car producer. The sale by Gothaer Waggonfabrik of the cash-strapped Dixi business to BMW meant an end to Cyklon's access to a sales network, and highlighted the lack of cash for running the auto-business which rapidly fizzled out after 1928, although Cyklon was not formally wound up till 1931.

Gotha's main contribution to the new Luftwaffe was the Gotha Go 145 trainer, of which 1,182 were built. The firm also produced the Gotha Go 242 assault glider and licence-built Messerschmitt Bf 110. Perhaps the most famous Gotha product of World War II, however, was an aircraft that never entered service, the Horten Ho 229. This was an exotic jet-powered, flying wing fighter aircraft designed by the Horten brothers, who lacked the facilities to mass-produce it. Two prototypes flew, the second (powered) version lost in an accident on its third flight. the third prototype- built to a modified design - was almost complete and four more were in various stages of manufacture before the end of the war.

Following the war, Gotha once again returned to its original purpose, building trams and light rail vehicles in the former East Germany.


Gotha aircraft included:


Gotha Büchner 4-Bay Biplane - 1913 - This machine was built by the Gothaer Waggonfabrik AG, Abteilung Flugzeugbaur, Gotha in 1913 as a trainer (Schuldoppeldecker) for the German Marine by one of the designers of Gotha, Dipl-Ing. Bruno Büchner. Power was provided by an Argus engine, driving a two bladed propeller. The first flight was on 22nd April 1913 and three were built. -

Gotha Büchner 6-Bay Seaplane (Wasserflugzeug) - 1913 - This was a large 6-bay machine was powered by a 120 hp Daimler D II engine. The aircraft first took to the air in April 1913. Took part in the Konstanz Bodensee-Wasserflug 1913. For the competition 17 different aircraft were entered, but not all of them appeared. One of the machines that appeared was the Gotha Wasserflugzeug, which was piloted by its designer Bruno Büchner. The engine was quoted as a 100 hp Mercedes 6-cylinder engine with steel cylinders. The aircraft did not win any prizes in Konstanz with the first prize to Hellmut Hirth who was flying an Albatros Monoplane seaplane, designed by a young designer named Ernst Heinkel. -

Gotha B.I - 1914 - see Gotha LD.7 -

Gotha B.II - 1915 - see Gotha LD.10 -

Gotha FU - 19?? - see Gotha G.I -

Gotha G.I - 1914 - Designing began in the middle of 1914 for a large twin-engine seaplane of unconventional configuration. While most biplane designs have the fuselage attached to the lower wing, the G.I had a snub-nosed fuselage attached to the upper wing, and twin engine nacelles mounted on the lower one to minimize asymmetrical thrust in the event of an engine failure. Power was provided two Benz Bz.III inline engines, 110 kW (150 hp) each. Designed by Oskar Ursinus and Helmut Friedel its first flight was on 30 January 1915. A single example of the UWD floatplane version of the G.I was also built, ordered by the Navy in April 1915, and delivered in February 1916. The UWD seaplane is known to have participated in a successful air-raid on Dover in 1916, bombing Langton Fort and the Shoulder of Mutton battery. -
Variants: -
FU - (Friedel-Ursinus) - single prototype -
G.I - standard production version -
UWD - (Ursinus Wasser Doppeldecker - Ursinus Water Biplane) - seaplane variant with twin floats (1 only built), also known as the WD.4 -

Gotha G.II - 1915 - The Gotha G.II series was a heavy bomber biplane designed by Hans Burkhard. He abandoned the G.I's unorthodox configuration in favor of a more conventional design with the fuselage mounted on the bottom wing rather than the top. The G.II carried a crew of three and a defensive armament of two machine guns. The forward section of the fuselage was skinned in plywood, with the remainder covered in fabric. The fuselage and two very large nacelles were mounted on the lower wing. Each nacelle contained fuel and oil tanks beneath a geared eight-cylinder 160 KW (220 hp) Mercedes D.IV engines driving pusher propellers. The undercarriage was unusual, being quadricycle in arrangement with a pair of wheels mounted at the front and rear of each engine nacelle. The G.II prototype first flew in March 1916, and testing revealed it did not meet the Idflieg requirements. It was changed from a two-bay to a three-bay structure, undercarriage arrangement improved and production commenced in April 1916. Initial production batch of 11, mostly deployed to the Balkan front. Engine: 2 × Mercedes D.IV inline engine, 164 kW (220 hp) each.

Gotha G.III - 1916 - The Gotha G.III was a heavy bomber and it succeeded the G.II in production and differed primarily in the choice of powerplant. The Mercedes D.IV, which had proven highly susceptible to crankshaft failure, was replaced by a pair of the new six-cylinder 190 kW (260 hp) Mercedes D.IVa engine. The G.III also had a strengthened fuselage with an extra ventral machine gun. The G.III was also the first bomber to have a tail gun with a 360 degree arc of fire.

Gotha G.IV - 1916 - The Gotha G.IV was a heavy bomber used by the Luftstreitkräfte (Imperial German Air Service) during World War I. Experience with the earlier G.III showed that the rear gunner could not efficiently operate both the dorsal and ventral positions. Hans Burkhard's ultimate solution was the “Gotha tunnel”, a trough connecting an aperture in the upper decking with a large opening extending across the bottom of the rear fuselage. The Gotha tunnel allowed the top-side gun to fire through the fuselage at targets below and behind the bomber. The G.IV introduced other changes. The fuselage was fully skinned in plywood, eliminating the partial fabric covering of the G.III, the the plywood skinning enabled the fuselage to float for some time in the event of a water landing. In November 1916, the firm received a production order for 35 aircraft and this was subsequently increased to 50 in early 1917. A further 80 aircraft were ordered from the Siemens-Schuckert Werke (SSW) and 100 from Luft-Verkehrs-Gesellschaft (LVG). Compared to the Gothaer aircraft, these license-built aircraft were slightly heavier and slower because Idflieg specified the use of a strengthened airframe. Powerplant: 2 × Mercedes D.IVa, 193 kW (260 hp) each.

Gotha G.V - 1917 - The Gotha G.V was a long-range heavy bomber used by the Luftstreitkräfte (Imperial German Air Service) during World War I, principally as night bombers. Operational use of the G.IV demonstrated that the incorporation of the fuel tanks into the engine nacelles was a mistake. The Gotha G.V pilot seat was offset to port with the fuel tanks immediately behind. This blocked the connecting walkway that previously on earlier machines allowed crew members to move between the three gun stations. All bombs were carried externally in this model. The Gotha included an important innovation in the form of a "gun tunnel" whereby the underside of the rear fuselage was arched, early versions allowing placement of a rearward-facing machine gun protecting from attack from below, removing the blind spot. The base variant of G.V offered no significant performance improvement over the G.IV. The Mercedes D.IVa engines could not produce the rated 190 kW (260 hp) due to inferior quality of fuel. The G.V entered service in August 1917.
Variants:
G.Va - In February 1918, Gothaer tested a compound tail unit with biplane horizontal stabilizers and twin rudders. The new tail unit, known as the Kastensteuerung, improved the aircraft's marginal directional control on one engine. The resulting G.Va subvariant incorporated the new tail as well as a slightly shorter forward fuselage with an auxiliary nose landing gear. All 25 G.Va aircraft were delivered to Bogohl 3.
G.Vb - Carried an increased payload comparing to the earlier G.Va. Gothaer introduced the Stossfahrgestell ("shock landing gear"), a tandem two-bogie main landing gear. Some G.Vb aircraft also had Flettner servo tabs on the ailerons to reduce control forces. Idflieg ordered 80 G.Vb aircraft, the first being delivered to Bogohl 3 in June 1918. By the Armistice, all 80 aircraft were built but the last batch did not reach the front and was delivered direct to the Allied special commission. 2 × Mercedes D.IVa inline engine, 260 hp (191 kW) each.

Gotha G.VI - 1918 - The Gotha G.VI was an experimental bomber developed from the Gotha G.V . The G.VI became what was probably the first asymmetrical aircraft to be built. Designer Hans Burkhard on September 22, 1915, Burkhard obtained German Patent number 300 676 for his unusual design. Using the wing from a Gotha G.V Burkhard moved an engine to the front of the fuselage, driving a tractor propeller, and moved it to lie over the port main undercarriage supports. The second engine was moved to the rear of a nacelle, driving a pusher propeller, offset to a lesser degree to starboard. Flight tests commenced in the summer of 1918 but, when the aircraft nosed over, repairs were not carried out to the first prototype. A second prototype which was not completed before the Armistice. Powerplant: 2 × Mercedes D IVa, 194 kW (260 hp) each.

Gotha G.VII - 1918 - The Gotha G.VII was a bomber aircraft produced in Germany during the final months of World War I. It was intended to be a high-speed tactical bomber with a secondary reconnaissance capability. A conventional two-bay biplane design with tractor-mounted engines, and a conventional empennage with twin fins and rudders. The Idflieg ordered around 250 of these aircraft, 50 from Gotha and 50 from LVG, and 150 from Aviatik. At least some of the LVG and Aviatik machines had been completed before the Armistice, with some reaching operational service. One G.VII survived the war to see brief service with the Ukrainian Air Force before being impounded by Czechoslovakia and used by the Czechoslovakian air force for a short time. The original prototype was fitted with a short nosed fuselage was intended for long-range photographic reconnaissance. Powerplant: 2 × Mercedes D.IVa, 194 kW (260 hp) each and known as the GL.VII.

Gotha G.VIII - 1918 - The Gotha G.VIII was part of the G.VII, G.IX, and G.X family of bomber aircraft produced in Germany during the final months of World War I. Based on the Gotha G.VII, they were intended as high-speed tactical bombers featuring advanced streamlining for their day. The G.VIII designation was applied to a single machine developed from the G.VII, with an extended wingspan and a revised fuselage. While no further production ensued, the fuselage modifications were retained on the definitive G.IX.
Variants:
GL.VIII - Gotha GL.VIII was a lightweight version of the G.VIII with a compound tail assembly and auxiliary struts supporting the upper mainplane wing-tips.

Gotha G.IX - 1918 - Heavy bomber also used post-war by the Belgian Air Force. The Idflieg ordered 170 G.IXs from Luft Verkehrs Gesellschaft (LVG) to replace the Gotha G.Vs still in front-line service. Probably around half of this number were actually completed before the end of the war, with at least some of them reaching operational status by that time. Following the war, captured examples served for a short time with the Belgian Air Force.

Gotha G.X - 1918 - The G.X was a final variant in the series, intended to be powered by the BMW IIIa, a far less powerful engine than the Maybach Mb IVa used in the G.IX and previous designs. This variant may have been intended as a pure reconnaissance or training aircraft, and it is unclear whether any were actually built before the Armistice.

Gotha GL.VII - 1918 - Gotha GL.VII was a lightweight version of the G.VII with a compound tail assembly and auxiliary struts supporting the upper mainplane wing-tips.

Gotha GL.VIII - 19?? - see Gotha G.VIII

Gotha GL.X - 1918 - see Gotha G.X
 

Cy-27

ACCESS: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Jan 28, 2008
Messages
602
Reaction score
316
Second part ...

Gotha Go.145 - 1934 - The Gotha Go 145 was a German World War II-era biplane of wood and fabric construction used by Luftwaffe training units. Although obsolete by the start of World War II, the Go 145 remained in operational service until the end of the War in Europe as a night harassment bomber.
Variants:
Go.145A - Production model of trainer 1934
Go.145B - Enclosed cockpit version of trainer 1935 with MG-17 for the pilot
Go.145C - Gunnery trainer
Go.145D – Enclosed cockpit trainer (prototype only) from 1937.
CASA 1145-L - Spanish trainer version of Go.145A

Gotha Go.146 - 1936 - The Gotha Go.146 was a twin-engine utility aircraft developed in Germany in the mid-1930s. It was a conventional low-wing cantilever monoplane with tail wheel undercarriage, the main units of which retracted into the engine nacelles on the wings. It was offered to the Luftwaffe as a high-speed courier aircraft, but the Siebel Fh 104 was selected instead. With Gotha unable to attract other customers, no serious production was undertaken and a small number of prototypes were the only examples built.

Gotha Go.147 - 1936 - The Gotha Go 147 was a German experimental prototype reconnaissance aircraft designed in 1936. Designed by Gothaer Waggonfabrik and Albert Kalkert, construction of the two-seater aircraft was abandoned before the end of World War II. Featuring an unconventional design, it was built to test how an aircraft without a tail would fly, with the hope of using the experience to produce a future version for military use. Construction was suspended after the prototype proved to have poor flight characteristics.
Variants:
Go.147A - Project for armed variant.
Go.147B - Project for an improved armed variant.

Gotha Go.149 - 1935 - A military aircraft developed in Germany in the mid-1930s for training fighter pilots. It was a conventional low-wing cantilever monoplane with tail wheel undercarriage, the main units of which retracted inwards. The wing was wooden, while the monocoque fuselage was metal. Two prototypes were constructed, and an armed version was also proposed as a light home-defence fighter (Heimatschutzjäger) armed with two 7.92 mm (.312 in) MG 17 machine guns, but the Luftwaffe did not purchase either version of the design, and no further examples were built.

Gotha Go.150 - 1938 - The Gotha Go 150 was a light aircraft designed by the German company Gothaer Waggonfabrik in the late 1930s. It was intended for civilian use, but ended up being used as a military trainer. The aircraft was a twin-engine monoplane with an enclosed cockpit. It was designed by Albert Kalkert, and first flew in 1937. The results of this flight were good, and production began. The aircraft was used to train both civilian and Luftwaffe pilots. The Go 150 was later also used in tests, where it was towed by a Heinkel He 46. Powerplant: 2 × Zündapp Z 9-092 , 37 kW (50 hp) each.
Variants:
Go.150B - There was also a Go-150B variant with an increased take-off weight of 950 kg which was fitted with extra equipment and dual controls.

Gotha Go.229 (Horten Ho.229) - 1945 - Jet powered fighter developed from design by Dr. Reimar and Walter Horten. Three prototypes built by Gotha in 1945. One example was flyable , one ready for flight testing and one partially completed when the war ended. One ended up in the USA post-war.

Gotha Go.241 - 1940 - Developed in 1940 as a twin-engine courier and liaison aircraft, built along similar lines to the earlier Go.150. It was powered by two Hirth HM506 engines of 160 hp each.

Gotha Go.242 - 1941 - Production transport glider with 1,528 built. The Go 242 was designed by Albert Kalkert in response to a Reichsluftfahrtministerium (RLM) requirement for a heavy transport glider to replace the DFS 230 then in service. The requirement was for a glider capable of carrying 20 fully laden troops or the equivalent cargo. The aircraft was a high-wing monoplane with a simple square-section fuselage ending in clamshell doors used to load cargo. The empennage was mounted on twin booms linked by a tail plane. The fuselage was formed of steel tubing covered with doped fabric. The flight characteristics of the design were better than those of the DFS 230. The glider was tested with rockets for overloaded take offs, a rack of four 48 kg (106 lb) Rheinmetall 109-502 rockets mounted on the rear of the cargo compartment. A second rocket called the "R Device" was also used with the glider - it was a liquid-fuel Heinkel rocket engine R I-203 (HWK 109-500A) which was mounted beneath the wing on either side of the body and was ejected after take-off, parachuting down to be recycled.
Variants:
Go.242 A-1 - initial cargo-carrying version
Go.242 A-2 - initial troop-carrying version
Go.242 B-1 - cargo version with jettisonable landing gear
Go.242 B-2 - B-1 with improved landing gear
Go.242 B-3 - troop-carrying version of B-1 with double rear doors
Go.242 B-4 - troop-carrying version with doors of B-3 and landing gear of B-2
Go.242 B-5 - training version with dual controls
Go.242 C-1 - maritime assault version with flying boat-style hull. Never used operationally

Gotha Go.244 - 1941 - The Gotha Go 244 was a transport aircraft used by the Luftwaffe during World War II. The Go 244 was the powered version of the Gotha Go 242 military glider transport. Studies for powered versions of the Go 242 began early in the design of the glider, with one early proposal being for modification to allow a single Argus As 10C engine to be temporarily attached to the nose of the glider to allow recovery back to base after use. This idea was rejected, but the alternative of a permanently powered twin-engine version was taken forward. Three Go 242s were modified as prototypes of the powered Go 244, fitted with varying surplus radial engines. The first prototype, the Go 244 V1 was powered by two 660 hp (492 kW) BMW 132, while the second prototype had 700 hp (522 kW) Gnome-Rhône 14Ms and the third 750 hp (560 kW) Shvetsov M-25A engines. Although only the third prototype offered adequate engine out performance, the Luftwaffe had large stocks of captured Gnome engines, so this was chosen as the basis for the production conversion, although a few more aircraft were fitted with the BMW and Shvetsov engines. The B series was the main production model, being based on the Go 242B with a wheeled tricycle undercarriage and with fuel and oil carried in the tail-booms. 133 were converted from Go 242 Bs, while a further 41 were built from new before production reverted to the glider Go 242. Plans were also created for single-engined variants with a nose-mounted Argus A 10C or Junkers Jumo 211. The first examples of the Go 244 were delivered to operational units in Greece, based in Crete in March 1942. Some were also assigned to transport Geschwader in North Africa and the Eastern Front but on the former front they proved vulnerable to anti-aircraft fire and were withdrawn, being replaced by Junkers Ju 52 or Messerschmitt Me 323 aircraft.
Variants:
Go.244 A-1 - prototype, using the BMW 132 radial engine
Go.244 B-1 - production version, with fixed landing gear
Go.244 B-2 - B-1 with improved landing gear including a larger semi-retractable nose wheel
Go.242 B-3 - paratroop-carrying version of B-1 with double rear doors
Go.244 B-4 - paratroop-carrying version of B-2 with doors of B-3 and landing gear of B-2
Go.244 B-5 - training version with dual controls

Gotha Go.345 - 1944 - The Gotha Go 345 was a prototype German Military transport glider of the Second World War. A single example was tested in 1944 and could carry ten troops. There was to be an A and B version.
Variants:
Go.345A - Proposed improved version, remained a project.
Go.345B - Projected version.

Gotha Ka.430 - 1944 - The Gotha Ka 430 was a military transport glider, first built in 1944. The glider was designed by Albert Kalkert. Twelve had been produced by the end of World War II, but none of them was used operationally. The glider could carry twelve men, and tests were being conducted towards the end of the war to see if it could carry a cargo of 1,400 kg (3,100 lb). A single 13 mm (.51 in) MG 131 machine gun was fitted for self defence.

Gotha LD.1 - 1914 - Military utility aircraft. The Gotha LD.1 (for Land Doppeldecker - "Land Biplane") and its derivatives were a family of military aircraft produced in Germany just before and during the early part of World War I. Used for training and reconnaissance, they were conventional designs with two-bay unstaggered wings, tailskid landing gear, and two open cockpits in tandem. Made quickly obsolete by the rapid advances in aviation technology, several were supplied as military aid to the Ottoman Empire when withdrawn from German service. Designed by Karl M. Rösner the type first flew in 1914. Ten were completed some with 9-cylinder Gnome Monosoupape (100 hp) engines.
Variants:
LD 1 - Basic open-cockpit biplane
LD 1a - 1915 variant with a 100 hp (75 kW) Oberursel U.1 rotary engine.

Gotha LD.2 - 1914 - Used for training and reconnaissance, the LD.2 was of a conventional designs with two-bay unstaggered wings, tailskid landing gear, and two open cockpits in tandem. Made quickly obsolete by the rapid advances in aviation technology, several were supplied as military aid to the Ottoman Empire when withdrawn from German service. The LD.2 was similar to the earlier LD 1a but fitted with a 100 hp (75 kW) six-cylinder D.I inline piston engine. Only one example of this type was completed and it was designed by Karl M. Rösner and Zimmermann.

Gotha LD.3 - 1914 - A single seat reconnaissance aircraft, a license built Caudron G.III with its uncovered rear fuselage. Only one example was completed in 1914. In charge of construction of this design was H. Schmieder. Crew of two, a pilot and observer. Powerplant: 1 x Gnome Rotary (50 hp) 7- cylinder

Gotha LD.4 - 1914 - The utility LD.4 was similar to the LD 3 but had minor changes and engine variations. Like the LD.3, production chief was H. Schmieder. 20 were completed. Powerplant: 1 x Gnome Rotary (50 hp) 7- cylinder.

Gotha LD.5 - 1914 - A two-seat scout aircraft which first flew in December 1914. It was a two-bay biplane with ailerons. In charge of construction of this design was Hans Burkhard. Thirteen examples were built. Powerplant: 1 x Oberusel Ur-1 (100 hp) 9- cylinder.

Gotha LD.6 - 1914 - A military reconnaissance aircraft whose first flight was in April 1914. The LD.6 was a two seat reconnaissance aircraft similar to the LD 4 but had minor changes. Two LD-6 aircraft were completed under the guidance of Karl Rösner. It was fitted with a 150hp Benz Bz-III six cylinder in-line engine.
Variants: -
LD 6a - Minor changes and engine variations.

Gotha LD.7 (B.I) - 1914 - A conventional design with two-bay unstaggered wings, tailskid landing gear, and two open cockpits in tandem. Made quickly obsolete by the rapid advances in aviation technology, several were supplied as military aid to the Ottoman Empire when withdrawn from German service. Eighteen B.I were delivered into 1915 and used as an unarmed reconnaissance, then as a trainer aeroplane. It was fitted with a 120 hp (89 kW) Mercedes D.II inline piston engine. It received the factory designation LD.7 and was classified by the Idflieg as the Gotha B.I.

Gotha LD.10 (B.II) - 1915 - The Gotha LD.10 (also known as the B.II) was a originally to be an unarmed twin seat reconnaissance aeroplane. By the time the limited production was complete, it fulfilled the training role instead. It was a biplane powered by one Oberursel U.I engine. The type differed significantly from B.I. The wings were larger, the fuselage shorter and it was fitted with a rotary engine. Gotha LD.II had its origins in the earlier concept from back in 1913 when they had a two-seater called the LD.1, which was powered by a rotary engine Gnôme with 100 hp. The B. II, of which 10 were built, were all used as a training aircraft. No armament was fitted. -

Gotha LE.1 - 1913 - The LE.1 (Land-Eindekker) was a Taube-type monoplane design which first flew in 1913. Gotha Waggonfabrik created four types of aircraft based on the Taube (Dove) design . Projects LE.1 and LE.2 appeared in 1913, LE.3 and LE.4 in 1914 in many ways similar to each other. The LE.1 and LE.2 differed only in the main landing gear unit: LE 1 had Bleriot style undercarriage and the LE.2 a V-shaped arrangement. Both of these aircraft were produced with double in-line engines of various types. Ten were completed of this Etrich-Rumpler based design.

Gotha LE.2 (Gotha Taube) - 1913 - The LE.2 was a military reconnaissance monoplane design referred to as a Gotha Taube. Similar to the LE.1 it differed only in the main landing gear unithaving a V-shaped landing gear. 31 were built by Gotha with the design work undertaken by Ing. F. Bohnisch and H. Bartl.

Gotha LE.3 - 1914 - The LE.3 was a military reconnaissance two-seat monoplane from 1914. 58 were built by Gotha with the design work undertaken by Dr. K. Gruhlich and H. Bartl. Engine: 1 x Daimler D-I (100 hp) 6-cylinder.

Gotha LE.4 - 1914 - The LE.4 was a military reconnaissance two-seat monoplane from 1914. Engine: 1 x Daimler D-I (100 hp) 6-cylinder.
 

Cy-27

ACCESS: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Jan 28, 2008
Messages
602
Reaction score
316
Part three (mainly projects) ...


Gotha P.3 - 1935 - Fighter (Zerstörer) project, several versions were investigated.
Variants: -
P.3-001 - featured a double hull. Work began in 1935 and the aircraft was to have Jumo or Daimler Benz engines.
P.3-002 - was a larger version with folding wings.

Gotha P.4 - 193? - Trainer aircraft project, a development of the Go-145 with a more powerful 6-cylinder Argus series AS 17A (which had already been tested in the Go.145). The type was to have folding wings and monopod-suspension.

Gotha P.6 - 193? - The P.6 was a twin engine fighter aircraft (or Zerstörer). It was later used as basis for the Gotha P.14 project.

Gotha P.8 - 193? - Light attack fighter (Zerstörer) aircraft with two Argus series AS 10C engines. The type was to have folding wings and monopod-suspension.

Gotha P.9 - 1939 - Training school and sports aircraft design from 1939 with two seats one behind the other. Remained a project.
Variants: -
P.9-001 - was powered by a 4-cylinder Hirth HM-60 R engine. The type was to have folding wings and monopod-suspension. -
P.9-007 - Sport aircraft had a BMW Xa radial engine.

Gotha P.10 - 1939 - The P.10 was a series of projected designs for touring aircraft.
Variants: -
P.10-003 - was a two-seater touring aircraft. Basically it was an improved Go.150 with more powerful engines.

Gotha P.11 - 193? - The P.11 was a series of designs for ab initio training aircraft developed within the NSFK competition. It was a two-seater project with side-by-side seating. Engine: 1 x Hirth HM504 (100 hp).

Gotha P.12 - 193? - The P.12 series of projects was for a pre-war private aircraft with a mid-wing configuration and was to be powered by two 100 hp engine. It evolved into the Gotha Go.241.

Gotha P.14 - 193? - The P.14 series of projects was for a twin-engine fighter aircraft (or Zerstörer).
Variants: -
P.14-002 - was a revision of the early Gotha P.6 project with two Argus As-10/410 motors. It was designed in competition with the Messserschmitt Me.210.
P.14-012 - was a floatplane development designed to compete with the Arado Ar.196 design.

Gotha P.16 - 193? - The P.16 was a project for a light Fighter with 2 machine guns. It was a further development of the Go.149 with Argus As10/410 with retractable landing gear

Gotha P.17 - 193? - The P.17 project was a series of investigations to produce a single-seat aircraft for flying clubs, fitted with a Zündapp engine. The project became the design basis for the Gotha P.21 project.

Gotha P.20 - 1938 - The P.20 project was for a fighter dating from 1938. It was to have 3 machine guns and 2 cannons as an offensive armament. The designated powerplants were to be two Argus As-10C engines.

Gotha P.21 - 1938 - Development of the earlier project P.17, with aesthetic lines, a larger wing, with a Hirth HM 504 (100 hp) motor.

Gotha P.35 - 1939 - Development of the Gotha Go.242, it was a project for a strutted high-wing monoplane with tricycle landing gear. It was to have been powered by two 880 hp BMW engines. Twin boom transport aircraft which was never built.

Gotha P.39 - 1942 - A project to develop a short take-off and landing transport. Shoulder-wing military twin-boom transport project from 1942. Armed with MG 81Z machines guns Three BMW-Bramo 323 (1,000 hp) engines. Never built.

Gotha P.40 - 194? - Transport aircraft with asymmetric configuration. Powered by a BMW 132 (1,000 hp) engine. Work undertaken in conjuction with Blohm und Voss. Span of 24.99 metres. In the port hull was the BMW engine and tail. The port nacelle stub was to be used as a payload container.
Variants: -
P.40A - Proposed production version. -
P.40B - BMW 801 (1,600 hp) engine fitted. -

Gotha P.45 - 1942 - Transport aircraft project for a strutted high-wing monoplane with 1,000 hp Jumo 211 engine. The design also had a rear loading door. The aircraft wing span was 23.8 m.

Gotha P.46 - 1942 - Single engine military twin-boom transport project from 1942. Never built. A development of the Gotha Go.242B with an engine in the fuselage nose. It was to be fitted with tricycle landing gear and a Jumo 211 (1,100 hp) engine.

Gotha P.47 - 194? - Large glider transport project. Design had a shoulder wing monoplane, a with hull-roof loading door and landing skid. The aircraft was to have a start chassis for take-off.

Gotha P.50 - 1944 - Large transport glider project for 12 men and 1 small vehicle. It had shoulder wing with end plates with double-vertical tail, similar to Gotha Ka-430 glider. Two variant of this large transport glider were explored, the P.50 I and larger P.50 II.
Variants: -
P. 50 I - Wing Span: 19.98 m Length: 10.08 m Height: 3.38 m
P. 50 II - Wing Span: 22.40 m Length: 14.25 m Height: 5.54 m

Gotha P.52 - 1944 - Early jet fighter development. Tailless aircraft project similar to Horten Ho-IX with two Jumo 044 jet engines.

Gotha P.53 - 1944 - Early jet fighter development. Tailless aircraft project similar to Horten Ho-IX with two Jumo 044 jet engines.

Gotha P.56 - 1944 - Piggy-back combination of Focke-Wulf Fw-190 with glider P.56, which was intended as a tanker. Fitted with a landing skid instead of chassis undercarriage. Project only. -

Gotha P.58 - 1944 - Glider tanker project, not proceeded with.

Gotha P.60 - 1945 - Flying wing developments of a Horten design IX with more emphasis on the hull and arrangement of the engines on each other (Horten was under the fuselage). There is a Gotha original document in the captured German material held by the air force which does a direct comparison of the 8-229 and the P.60 which details why the P.60 should have been an improvement over the Horton design.
Variants: -
P.60A - Engines: 2 x BMW 003
P.60B - Engines: 2 x He-S 011
P.60C - Engines: 2 x BMW 003

Gotha P.3001 - 194? - 2-3 seat fighter project. Engines: 2 x Daimler-Benz DB 600 (950 hp)

Gotha P.3002 - 194? - 2-3 seat fighter project. Engines: 2 x Daimler-Benz DB 600 (950 hp)

Gotha P.4501 - 194? - Large transport project. Engines: 2 x Jumo 211 (1,100 hp)

Gotha P.9001 - 194? - Sporting aircraft project with a single Hirth HM 60R (80 hp) engine

Gotha P.9007 - 194? - Light sporting aircraft project with two seats. Engines: 1 x BMW Xa (68 hp)

Gotha P.10003 - 194? - Touring aircraft project wih two seats. Twin Argus As 10c (240 hp) engines.

Gotha P.11001 - 194? - Twin-seat trainer project with a Hirth HM 504 (100 hp) engine.

Gotha P.12001 - 194? - Touring aeroplane project with two seats. Engines: 2 x Hirth HM 504 (100 hp .

Gotha P.14002 - 194? - Twin-engine fighter project. Two seats. Engines: 2 x Argus As 410 (465 hp).

Gotha P.14012 - 194? - Two seat project for a floatplane fighter. Engines: 2 x Argus As 410 (465 hp)

Gotha P.16001 - 194? - Small single seat light fighter project with a pair of Hirth HM 504 (100 hp) engines.

Gotha P.17002 - 1945 - Small experimental single-seat aircraft project. Engines: 1 x Zundapp (50 hp)

Gotha P.20001 - 1945 - Single seat experimental fighter project. Engines: 2 x Argus As 10c (240 hp)

Gotha P.21005 - 1945 - Single-seat experimental project. Engines: 1 x Hirth HM 504 (100 hp)

Gotha P.35001 - 1945 - Transport project. Engines: 2 x BMW 132 (880 hp)

.. last part (and list of sources) to follow later ....
 

Cy-27

ACCESS: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Jan 28, 2008
Messages
602
Reaction score
316
Last part ...

Gotha Taube - 1913 - see Gotha LE.2

Gotha U.1 - 1916 - see Gotha WD.10

Gotha UKL - 1914 - A large reconnaissance biplane which led to the development of the Gotha G.I. Design work was started under the leadership of Oskar Ursinus and Hans Burkhard in 1914. The prototype underwent testing in the winter of 1914/15. The UKL had the fuselage mated to the upper wing and had a crew of three. The UKL first flew on 27th July 1915 and 18 were built. The prototype had Daimler 6-cylinder in-line water cooled engines and the series aircraft two Benz Bz-III 6-cylinder in-line water cooled engines of 150 hp.

Gotha UWD - 19?? - see Gotha G.I and WD.4

Gotha WD.1 - 1914 - This was a development of the Avro 503 floatplane that had been built under licence by Gotha and designated the WD.1 (for Wasser Doppeldecker - "Water Biplane") . It was a conventional three-bay reconnaissance biplane with tandem with open cockpits with a small pontoon carried under the tail. It was adapted by Karl Rosner. The aeroplane first flew in February 1914 with a 100 hp Gnome 9-cylinder engine. Six examples were completed, all but the prototype with Daimler D-I 6-cylinder engine installed. It had twin floats and eventually carried a pilot and two passengers. Although a pre-war design, a handful saw service during the early months of the war, on coastal patrol duties.

Gotha WD.2 - 1914 - A reconnaissance seaplane designed by Oskar Ursinus. The Gotha WD.2 and its derivatives were a family of military reconnaissance aircraft produced in Germany just before and during the early part of World War I. It was a development of the Avro 503 that had been built under licence by Gotha as the WD.1, and like it, was a conventional three-bay biplane with tandem, open cockpits. The landing gear comprised twin pontoons and dispensed with the small pontoon carried under the tail of the WD.1. Machines built for the German Navy were unarmed, but those supplied to the Ottoman aviation squadrons carried a machine gun in a ring mount on the upper wing, accessible to the observer, whose seat was located directly below it. In an attempt to increase performance. One WD.2 was built with a reduced wingspan and its Benz Bz.III engine replaced with the more powerful Mercedes D.III which was designated the WD.5. Powerplant: 1 × Benz Bz.III, 112 kW (150 hp).

Gotha WD.4 (UWD) - 1915 - The WD.4 was based on the Gotha G.I design which first flew as a landplane on 27th July 1915. Known by the designation UWD this was a six-man bomber designed by Oskar Ursinus in 1915. It first flew on 28th January 1916, only one example was built. Marine Number 120 was used as a training machine for torpedo crews. A crew of three was carried, and the gunner in the front cockpit had an unparalleled field of fire. The idea of raising the fuselage was to enable the engines to be placed as close together as possible - airscrew tips almost touching - in order to retain a good degree of control in asymmetric flight should failure of either engine occur. In both types "handed" airscrews were employed. Engine: 2 x Daimler D.III (160 hp).

Gotha WD.5 - 1915 - In an attempt to increase performance, one WD.2 was built with a reduced wingspan and its Benz Bz.III engine replaced with the more powerful Mercedes D.III. Designated the WD.5, it was an unarmed reconnaissance version, no further examples were built in this configuration, but it served as the pattern for the WD.9. The WD 5 was only a one-off type designed by Rosner and Klaube. It was, in fact, a modified WD 2 and retained the same Marine Serial No. 118. It had a 6-cylinder in-line Daimler D.III engine installed, which was water cooled. The span was reduced to a two-bay cellule, and a 160 hp Mercedes engine replaced the Benz. It featured two narrow strip-type radiators, which were attached to the front centre-section struts.

Gotha WD.7 - 1915 - The Gotha WD.7 was a torpedo-reconnaissance seaplane developed in Germany during World War I. After the pusher-configured WD.3 was not accepted by the Imperial German Navy, Gotha turned to a new layout that would keep the aircraft's nose free for forward-firing weapons. The WD.7 therefore, was a conventional biplane with twin 6-cylinder, water-cooled, engines mounted tractor-fashion on the leading edge of the lower wing. Eight examples were built for the German Navy for use as trainers for torpedo bombing. The prototype first few in December 1915.

Gotha WD.8 - 1916 - The Gotha WD.8 was a reconnaissance seaplane developed in Germany during World War I under the stewardship of Rosner and Klaube. The WD.7 airframe was used to create the WD.8 as an unarmed reconnaissance aircraft, substituting the twin wing-mounted engines for a single Maybach Mb.IVa in the nose. This machine, built in December 1915, was virtually a single-engine version of the WD 7, the same wing cellule, float chassis and tail assembly being used. It was intended for armed reconnaissance, but only a single example (No. 476) was produced.

Gotha WD.9 - 1916 - The Gotha WD.5 served as the pattern for the WD.9, built in a small series. This differed from the WD.5 prototype in having a trainable machine gun located in the rear cockpit, to which the observer had been relocated. One such aircraft was supplied to the German Navy, with the rest of the batch going to Turkey, albeit with the less powerful engine of the WD.9. It was an armed aircraft with a Daimler D.III 6-cylinder in-line water-cooled engine for the prototype. A 150 hp Benz Bz.III engine was installed in nine examples, designated W.9a, for the Ottoman Empire (Turkey) delivered in May and June 1918. The W.9 was constructed under the guidance of Karl Rosner and A. Klaube. Engines: 1 × Daimler D.III (160 hp).

Gotha WD.10 - 1916 - Ursinus designed a single-seat seaplane fighter to embrace several features intended to obtain the very best performance from the 150 hp Benz Bz III six-cylinder engine and drove a two-bladed propeller through a short extension shaft. The aircraft, designated WD.10, was constructed by the aircraft company Rex. The aircraft was also known as the U-1. The most revolutionary feature of the design, was its retractable float undercarriage, in an attempt to overcome the inherent disadvantages of drag and manoeuvrability which attended float planes generally and fighters in particular. The pilot manually operated a small differential winch which reduced the lengths of the bracing cables on one diagonal of the undercarriage struts and lengthened corresponding cables on the other diagonal, allowing the floats to be cranked to the 'up' position (site files). They were retracted forward against the airflow; this kept the centre of gravity forward and also assisted with float extension. Engines: 1 × Benz Bz-III (150 hp) .

Gotha WD.11 - 1916 - The Gotha WD.11 was a torpedo bomber seaplane developed in Germany during World War I under the leadership of Karl Rosner and A. Klaube. When the general configuration of the Gotha WD.7 proved promising, Gotha set to work designing a much larger and more powerful aircraft along the same general lines. Like its predecessor, it was a conventional biplane with twin engines mounted tractor-fashion on the lower wing. The pilot and observer sat in tandem, open cockpits and the landing gear consisted of twin pontoons. Power was provided by two Daimler 6-cylinder , in-line, water-cooled pusher engines mounted in the wings. The prototype first flew in August 1916. 17 examples were built for the Imperial German Navy.

Gotha WD.12 - 1916 - The last member of the WD.2 family to be built in any quantity was the D.III-powered WD.12, an unarmed reconnaissance version which featured greater attention to streamlining the aircraft, most especially around the engine area, which was now provided with a close-fitting cowl and a spinner for the propeller. Again, this type was supplied to both Germany and the Ottoman Empire. Twin floats and pusher engines. First flight was in August 1916. Seven completed initially, one prototype and six production examples. 14 were later built and exported to Turkey as training machines.

Gotha WD.13 - 1916 - The WD.12 was followed in production by a small number of WD.13s, essentially similar but for the use again of the less powerful Bz.III engine in production aircraft. The prototype was fitted with a 6-cylinder Daimler in-line engine. Project led by Rosner and Harwig. It was an unarmed military reconnaissance floatplane aircraft. Eighteen were built.
Variants: -
WD.13A - Several examples were exported to Turkey as the WD.13A with reduced wing area to the prototype.

Gotha WD.14 - 1916 - The Gotha WD.14, WD.20, and WD.22 were a family of torpedo bomber seaplanes developed in Germany during World War I. They were conventional biplanes, essentially enlarged versions of the WD.11 and like it, having twin engines mounted tractor-fashion on the lower wing. The wider fuselage of these aircraft allowed the pilot and observer to sit side-by-side in the open cockpit, and a second machine gun was added in an open dorsal position. Hinges were added to the wings, allowing them to be folded for storage. The type first flew in January 1917, construction by Karl Rosner and A. Klaube. 69 WD.14s were built, but were found to be ineffective in their intended role of torpedo bomber, since their low speed made them extremely vulnerable to defensive fire. Many were subsequently adapted to act as mine layers, and some were even used as transports.
Variants: -
WD.14A - Production aircraft were designated WD-14A. Powerplant: 2 × Benz Bz.IV, 150 kW (200 hp) each

Gotha WD.15 - 1916 - The last of the series which originated from the WD.2 were two WD.15s which were built after a considerable redesign of the aircraft. These had plywood-covered fuselages, as opposed to the fabric covering used on all earlier members of the family, and were fitted with a Daimler D.IVa engines. Only two were completed.

Gotha WD.20 - 1917 - The WD.20 was a conventional biplane with twin floats, essentially enlarged versions of the WD.11 , having twin engines mounted tractor-fashion on the lower wing. Only three were completed. The WD.20 differed from the WD.14 only in having large auxiliary fuel tanks for long-range reconnaissance and having no torpedo or mine-carrying capability. The winged were able to be folded for storage. A training version was also considered but not followed up.

Gotha WD.22 - 1918 - The WD.22 was a conventional biplane, essentially enlarged versions of the WD.11 , having twin engines mounted tractor-fashion on the lower wing. Like the WD.20, it was designed by Rosner and Klaube. A small number of generally similar WD.22 prototypes were built, these differing from the WD.20 in having two extra engines added, creating two tractor-pusher pairs, one on each wing. The type first flew in May 1918. To pursue investigation into long-range reconnaissance and patrol duties, two Gotha WD 22s were built during 1918. They were powered by four engines tandem mounted in twin nacelles; the forward engines driving tractor airscrews were 160 h.p. Mercedes D IIIs, and the rear engines driving pusher airscrews were 100 h.p. Mercedes D I. They were also used as Torpedo carriers.

Gotha WD.27 - 1918 - The Gotha WD.27 was a patrol seaplanes designed for long-range patrol and bombing duties, three of these colossal machines were built during 1918.. It was a huge, four-engine aircraft with the same general layout as the WD.22; a conventional seaplane with engines grouped in tractor-pusher pairs on the lower wings. Contemporary records show three German Navy serial numbers allocated to the type, but firm evidence of only one of these being built. The prototype first flew in November 1918 and the work was led by Karl Rosner and A.Klaube. It really fell in the Rs category (Riesen-Seeflugzeug, Giant Seaplane), and were powered by four 160 h.p. Mercedes D III engines mounted tandem fashion in twin nacelles, driving neatly spinnered tractor and pusher airscrews.

Gotha WD.28 - 1918 - In 1918, the WD.8 design was re-examined as the project WD.28 with 260 hp Daimler, but not built. The original WD.8 was single engine conversion of the twin-engine WD.7.


Sources:

- Walter Zuerl Flugzeuge Der GWF (Gothaer Waggon Fabrik AG), der Flieger (Zuerl)
- Nowarra, Heinz J. Die Deutsche Luftrüstung 1933-1945 (Bernard & Graeffe)
- Grosz, Peter M, The Gotha GI - GV. (Profile Publications)
- Taylor, Michael JH, Jane's Encyclopedia of Aviation (Studio Editions)
- Grosz, Peter M, Gotha! (Albatros Productions)
- Gray, Peter & Thetford, Owen, German Aircraft of the First World War (Putnam)
- Flight Magazine 1918-19
 

Stargazer2006

ACCESS: USAP
Senior Member
Joined
Jun 25, 2009
Messages
13,221
Reaction score
820
I think this tops everything I've seen on the subject so far. Excellent work as usual, thanks!
 

Wurger

ACCESS: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Oct 25, 2007
Messages
989
Reaction score
140
Hi Cy-27,

this is a great list, I would only point out that most of the projects belong to the late 1930`s, I believe. I will try to find something to add. A book has been recently published on Gothaer and Gotha, but I can`t remember the name and I do not know if it has something interesting.
 

hesham

ACCESS: USAP
Senior Member
Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
28,436
Reaction score
6,100
Amazing list my dear Cy-27,


and I can add;


1910 a monoplane built,but no more details.


A.I unarmed biplane,no info.


Go.271 a bat wing fighter.
 

Maveric

Fight for yor Right!
Joined
Jan 14, 2007
Messages
2,027
Reaction score
432
Go.271 was a incorrect designation. The RLM-Number 271 was for the Weserflug We.271, so there was no Go.271!
 

Stargazer2006

ACCESS: USAP
Senior Member
Joined
Jun 25, 2009
Messages
13,221
Reaction score
820
Maveric said:
Go.271 was a incorrect designation. The RLM-Number 271 was for the Weserflug We.271, so there was no Go.271!

You may be right about this one, but let's keep in mind that some RLM numbers reserved for projects that were later cancelled ended up being reused.
 

Maveric

Fight for yor Right!
Joined
Jan 14, 2007
Messages
2,027
Reaction score
432
Yes, its an other point. But I have never heard from a Gotha Go.271... :eek:
 

hesham

ACCESS: USAP
Senior Member
Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
28,436
Reaction score
6,100
Maveric said:
Yes, its an other point. But I have never heard from a Gotha Go.271... :eek:


Are you sure my dear Maveric ?,please see;


http://www.luft46.com/rd/rdreams.html
 

Jemiba

Moderator
Staff member
Top Contributor
Senior Member
Joined
Mar 11, 2006
Messages
8,347
Reaction score
1,537
Not sure about the "Gotha 271" designation, perhaps Justo can shed some light on it ?
What's noticeable is, that it seem to have actually carried a RLM designation then, contrary
to the other projects. Maybe just the "P" is missing ?
 

Cy-27

ACCESS: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Jan 28, 2008
Messages
602
Reaction score
316
I also appear to have left off the P.8001 project from my list:

Gotha P.8001

General Characteristics
Crew: 2
Type: Fighter
Engines: 2 x Argus As 10c (240 hp)
Wing Span: 11.00 m
Length: 8.67 m
Height: 2.70 m

Source:
Nowarra, Heinz J. Die Deutsche Luftrüstung 1933-1945 (Bernard & Graeffe)
 

hesham

ACCESS: USAP
Senior Member
Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
28,436
Reaction score
6,100
My dear Jemiba,


in my files,the Go.271 was a bat wing fighter,and I got this info definitely from Internet
or a book,I will search about the source,and for P.57,I mentioned it before;


http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,458.msg5792.html#msg5792
 

hesham

ACCESS: USAP
Senior Member
Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
28,436
Reaction score
6,100
Also P.55;


http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,4869.msg38609.html#msg38609
 

Tuizentfloot

ACCESS: Secret
Joined
May 9, 2010
Messages
256
Reaction score
93
Splendid work, Су-27! Congratulations!

Just a few additions, limited to my area of interest, the period before 1918.

UWD
The UWD had a nickname: Trojanisches Pferd (Trojan horse).

WD 6
Gotha built the Hansa-Brandenburg NW under license and called it WD 6. Source: Nowarra, Die Entwicklung der Flugzeuge 1914-1918 (1959), p. 29.
 

newsdeskdan

ACCESS: Top Secret
Top Contributor
Senior Member
Joined
Jun 11, 2014
Messages
1,156
Reaction score
929
Gotha Go 229?
 

Attachments

  • Gotha Go 229 1.jpeg
    Gotha Go 229 1.jpeg
    1.2 MB · Views: 125
  • Gotha Go 229 2.jpeg
    Gotha Go 229 2.jpeg
    1.3 MB · Views: 115
  • Gotha Go 229 3.jpeg
    Gotha Go 229 3.jpeg
    1.5 MB · Views: 107

Jemiba

Moderator
Staff member
Top Contributor
Senior Member
Joined
Mar 11, 2006
Messages
8,347
Reaction score
1,537
Those documents explain the changes to the Junkers engines, that were fitted to the Go 229.
For short: because of the very unfavorable conditions for the installation of the engines, they had
to be considerably modified, obviously causing severe headaches for Junkers engineers.
For example: Oil- and fuel reservoirs had to be "dented" (and it sounds, as this this was meant
more or less literally, by the carefull use of a hammer !), because of passing control rods.
An electric distributor had to be omitted, because of lack of space (so the related cables probably
connected directly), a bulkhead had to be slimmed down, pipes bent....
The installation of the engine seem to have been tricky, too, there are lots of clues like "use a wire
cable for provisionally mounting the engine, cant it 30° to the left for easier insertion and then cant
to the final position of 15°".
The Go 229 of course was a prototype only, but this actually are handicraft instructions, showing that
at this point the construction was sloppy ! Would be very interesting to compare them against similar
instructions for an allied aircraft.
 

newsdeskdan

ACCESS: Top Secret
Top Contributor
Senior Member
Joined
Jun 11, 2014
Messages
1,156
Reaction score
929
Jemiba said:
Those documents explain the changes to the Junkers engines, that were fitted to the Go 229.
For short: because of the very unfavorable conditions for the installation of the engines, they had
to be considerably modified, obviously causing severe headaches for Junkers engineers.
For example: Oil- and fuel reservoirs had to be "dented" (and it sounds, as this this was meant
more or less literally, by the carefull use of a hammer !), because of passing control rods.
An electric distributor had to be omitted, because of lack of space (so the related cables probably
connected directly), a bulkhead had to be slimmed down, pipes bent....
The installation of the engine seem to have been tricky, too, there are lots of clues like "use a wire
cable for provisionally mounting the engine, cant it 30° to the left for easier insertion and then cant
to the final position of 15°".
The Go 229 of course was a prototype only, but this actually are handicraft instructions, showing that
at this point the construction was sloppy ! Would be very interesting to compare them against similar
instructions for an allied aircraft.

It certainly would. However, the reason I stuck this in 'designations' is because I've encountered something odd about that type's official designation. The RLM would give out a number - for example 8-190 - and the '8-' (signifying 'aircraft', as I understand it) would more or less immediately be replaced with, in this case, 'Fw' in company reports. Certainly some documents, and particularly tech drawings, would still use '8-190' but most reports etc. would use 'Fw 190'.
It's different with the 8-229. The earliest report I have on it from Gotha, dated September 7, 1944, explicitly uses 'Ho 229', as do reports on Sept 23 and Oct 2. Then a report on Oct 11 uses 'Ho IX', which is odd. Then from Oct 31 onwards Gotha refers only to the 8-229 without the 'Ho'. Even Reimar Horten, who you would think would always use 'Ho' if he could, uses '8-229' in a report on March 1, 1945. Have a look at the list below. Each date is a report I have on the design in question with the designation used in the report cited beside it. It seems to be commonly believed that it was never called the 'Go 229' but the document I posted above suggests otherwise. There also seems to be some sketchy evidence that the 8-229 was actually changed to 8-267 very late on.

7.9.44 Ho 229 - Gotha report
23.9.44 Ho 229 - Gotha report
2.10.44 Ho 229 - Gotha report
11.10.44 Ho IX - Gotha report
31.10.44 8-229 - Gotha report
20.11.44 8-229 - Gotha report
22.11.44 No designation given at all - Gotha report (and this is a full 'proposal' document from Gotha with description, drawings etc.)
22.11.44 8-229 - Gotha report
24.11.44 8-229 - Gotha report
12.12.44 8-229 - Gotha report
17.12.44 8-229 - Gotha report
25.1.45 8-229 - Gotha report (comparing the '8-229' with the 'Go P-60')
28.2.45 8-229 - Gotha report
1.3.45 8-229 - report actually written and signed by Reimar Horten which uses '8-229' and also H IX b)
2.3.45 8-229 - Gotha report
7.3.45 Go 229 - Junkers report, but also making reference to the Hortens by citing it as 'Go 229 (Horten)'
 

Hood

ACCESS: Top Secret
Staff member
Senior Member
Joined
Sep 6, 2006
Messages
2,597
Reaction score
3,034
Maybe because Gotha and Horten hadn't decided which prefix to use they just stuck to leaving the 8 until a final decision was made when the type was nearer production?
It's possible there was a conflict about whose prefix should ultimately be applied to the production aircraft.
 

newsdeskdan

ACCESS: Top Secret
Top Contributor
Senior Member
Joined
Jun 11, 2014
Messages
1,156
Reaction score
929
Hood said:
Maybe because Gotha and Horten hadn't decided which prefix to use they just stuck to leaving the 8 until a final decision was made when the type was nearer production?
It's possible there was a conflict about whose prefix should ultimately be applied to the production aircraft.

Regarding the former, the RLM evidently had strict rules about what form the prefix of a type should take - Alexander Lippisch tried to have the 8-163 designated the 'Li 163' but was denied permission. As I understand it, the prefix had to be the firm originating the type, not the designer personally (Lippisch was a fully contracted Messerschmitt member of staff at this point). Somehow this rule was overriden for Kurt Tank, who got the 'Fw' of Focke-Wulf replaced with 'Ta' - but this was (I think) chronologically later than Lippisch's attempts to have his name inserted into the designation. And Tank didn't have much personal involvement in designing Focke-Wulf's aircraft, although he did have far more political pull than Lippisch.
Regarding the conflict, I'm not aware of anything other than the circumstantial evidence I've presented. I don't think the Hortens spoke about a conflict over the designation during their interviews with David Myhra in the 80s but I could be wrong.
My guess would be that it got 'Ho' to begin with, because the Hortens did apparently set up 'Horten Flugzeugbau' as a company. But they had no real manufacturing muscle and Gotha did a lot of redesign work on the 8-229 to make it fit for ongoing production. Gotha might have applied to the RLM for a redesignation in light of their work on the type. But that's pure speculation. Whatever the case, it doesn't seem to be quite as straightforward as 'Ho 229 = correct, Go 229 = incorrect'.
 

Wurger

ACCESS: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Oct 25, 2007
Messages
989
Reaction score
140
I agree in that the "Go" prefix stuck since that company took over construction and redesign. Pleas look at this old designation list:

http://www.designation-systems.net/non-us/germany.html#_System

What puzzles me most is the 8-267" designation. Andreas Parsch listed a "8-267", allocated to Gotha, and a "Ho-267", possibly the Ho 229. This last one was taken from this source, which I tried to locate in the US, to no avail:

USAAF Air Materiel Command: "List of German Air Ministry Aircraft Numbers" (Foreign Equipment Descriptive Brief 46-6B, 21 August 1946)
 

newsdeskdan

ACCESS: Top Secret
Top Contributor
Senior Member
Joined
Jun 11, 2014
Messages
1,156
Reaction score
929
Wurger said:
I agree in that the "Go" prefix stuck since that company took over construction and redesign. Pleas look at this old designation list:

http://www.designation-systems.net/non-us/germany.html#_System

What puzzles me most is the 8-267" designation. Andreas Parsch listed a "8-267", allocated to Gotha, and a "Ho-267", possibly the Ho 229. This last one was taken from this source, which I tried to locate in the US, to no avail:

USAAF Air Materiel Command: "List of German Air Ministry Aircraft Numbers" (Foreign Equipment Descriptive Brief 46-6B, 21 August 1946)

I don't have that, but I do have this.
 

Attachments

  • German codes 1.JPG
    German codes 1.JPG
    1.4 MB · Views: 68
  • German codes 207.JPG
    German codes 207.JPG
    1.3 MB · Views: 59
  • German codes 233.JPG
    German codes 233.JPG
    1.2 MB · Views: 23

hesham

ACCESS: USAP
Senior Member
Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
28,436
Reaction score
6,100
Great find my dear Dan,

do you have a more Info about Go.224,Go.234 & Go.240 ?.
 

newsdeskdan

ACCESS: Top Secret
Top Contributor
Senior Member
Joined
Jun 11, 2014
Messages
1,156
Reaction score
929
hesham said:
Great find my dear Dan,

do you have a more Info about Go.224,Go.234 & Go.240 ?.

No I'm afraid not. I found the Junkers report on engines for the Go 229 and consulted the codes book to see whether that also had Go 229, which it did.
 

Avimimus

ACCESS: Top Secret
Joined
Dec 16, 2007
Messages
2,075
Reaction score
240
Cy-27 said:
I also appear to have left off the P.8001 project from my list:

Gotha P.8001

General Characteristics
Crew: 2
Type: Fighter
Engines: 2 x Argus As 10c (240 hp)
Wing Span: 11.00 m
Length: 8.67 m
Height: 2.70 m

Source:
Nowarra, Heinz J. Die Deutsche Luftrüstung 1933-1945 (Bernard & Graeffe)

This one?
http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,10063.0/nowap.html
 

Similar threads

Top