Google's great, but ....

Jemiba

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... sometimes searching can drive me mad !
I'm looking for a french manufacturer of aviation engines, simple, but ...
its name is "Train" and types are for example "Train 4E", or "Train 6D". ::)
Thousands of hits, or nothing, if I'm using advanced search, omitting words
like "railway", "locomotive" or "aerobic" ....
Not any better, if the search is restricted to french language only ... :mad:

Any tips, or links or something helpful ? :-\
 

Michel Van

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strange i never heard of a french manufacturer
of aviation engines called "Train"

you got more info about them ?
 

starviking

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If you know the French for 'train manufacturer' add it to all the searches. Might be an idea to add the French for whatever power type the Train trains used: steam, diesel, electric.

Also, only search for one particular type at a time. So search for:

'Train 4E' + 'train manufacturer (en Francais)' + power type (en Francais)

then repeat the process for 'Train 6D' and others.
 

Jemiba

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Well, I'll try to squeeze out the best from Google and other search engines,
but it's similar to searching for "Mr.Smith" in a british phone book, I'm afraid ! :mad:
Examples of aircraft fitted with Train engines :
- Brochet M.50 Pipistrelle (type with 40hp)
- MS.560 (train 6Do-1 with 75hp)
- MS.660 (Train 4E-1 with 40hp)
- SECAT S4.75T (train 6D 03
- Druine Aigle 777 (Train 4T with 40hp)

Seems not, that great numbers were produced, at least not for aircraft, mainly
used for prototypes and one-offs.
 

Michel Van

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here is a misunderstanding

those aircraft have this Engines
Brochet MB.50 engines is a Salmson 9
Morane-Saulnier MS.570 hase a Renault 4Pei

Wat wend wrong?
someone translade french word train as manufacture of engines

while this word is used in french next to trains, also used as "landing gear"
and is some case also verb !
example
Ce cheval a le train de devant faible. - his horse has weak forequaters.
Faire du train, beaucoup de train - it makes noise, to much noise

source on use of word "Train" in french language:
http://fr.wiktionary.org/wiki/train

en francais naturellement...
 

Jemiba

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"Wat wend wrong?"

Nothing, I think !
The Brochet MB.50 was built in quite a number of examples, at least one of
them with a Train engine, more often with the Salmson, as you've mentioned.

And the MS.570 had a Renault engine, that's right, but it wasn't the MS.560 ... ;)

Principally the problem is just, that "train" here is just a name, but besides it has quite a
number of meanings. As said before, look for Miller or Smith .... :-\
I could imagine, that the name was just a short form of the founder, or something like that
(as Avro or Saro, for example) and that it mainly produced engines for other purposes,
maybe for cars or motorbikes, but that's just an assumption, of course.
 

Attachments

  • Pipistrelle.GIF
    Pipistrelle.GIF
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cluttonfred

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Sorry to contradict you, Michel Van, but Jemiba is absolutely right. Train was a French manufacturer of light, aircooled inline aircraft engines along the lines of the small Walter and Hirth engines. A couple of British lightplanes even used the Train engine, but I'll have to check Richard Riding's ULTRALIGHTS: THE EARLY BRITISH CLASSICS to say which ones. Riding's book also has an nice appendix on engines and manufacturers so I'll be able to give you the correct name of the company, location, etc.

Here a some aircraft equipped with Train engines listed in www.aviafrance.com ("ch" stands for chevaux or horsepower, the rest is easily understood):

Aubert PA-20 'Cigale' - Tourisme - Motorisation : 1 Train 6T de 60 ch
Brochet MB-50 'Pipistrelle' - Tourisme - Motorisation : 1 Train de 40 ch
Caudron C.344 'Phalène Junior' - Tourisme - 1 Train de 40 ch
Druine 'Aigle' 777 - Tourisme Motorisation : 1 Train 4T de 40 ch
Kellner-Béchereau E-1 - Expérimental Motorisation : 1 Train 4T de 40 ch
Kellner-Béchereau E-5 - Tourisme Motorisation : 1 Train 6T de 60 ch
Kellner-Bechereau ED-5 - Expérimental Motorisation : 1 Train 6T de 60 ch
Mauboussin M-40 'Hémiptère' - Tourisme - 1 Train 4A de 40 ch
Morane-Saulnier MS-660 - Tourisme - Motorisation : 1 Train 4E01 de 50 ch
Nicolas-Claude NC-2 'Aquilon' - Tourisme - Motorisation : 1 Train de 50 ch
Payen AP-10 - Expérimental Motorisation : 1 Train de 40 ch
Potez-C.A.M.S. 160 - Hydravion expérimental - Motorisation : 6 Train 4A-01 de 40 ch
S.E.C.A.T. S.4 'Mouette' - Tourisme - Motorisation : 1 Train 6T de 60 ch
Trébucien 'Sport' - Tourisme - Motorisation : 1 Train de 40 ch
Volland 10 - Tourisme - Motorisation : 1 Train de 60 ch

Cheers,

Matthew
 

cluttonfred

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1) The British lightplane I had in mind was the Chilton Monoplane. An enthusiast's site dedicated to this pretty little plane also includes a translated article which is essentially an interview with M. Train himself.

2) I also found this on a site about "flat" engines:

Train (France)
Établissements E. Train of Courbevoie, France was a motorcycle manufacturer. The firm developed several Train inverted, inline aircraft engines in the late 1930s and 1940s. The HOAE described below is their only design of this configuration, but little is known.

3) Saving the best for last, this antique aero engine collection has one of the 60 hp, 6-cylinder models and several pics:

In 1935, the E. Train Establishment of Courbevoie, France produced a series of in-line, air-cooled aero engines in 2, 4, and 6 cyl. Versions with interchangeable parts. This nearly 70 year old design would be ideal for many light aircraft projects today. This Model 6T, 60 hp inverted engine, with dual carburetors, weighs only 141 lbs. While the total length is 36 inches, this amazingly streamlined design is just barely wider than a small propeller. This is the only one known. (SMOF).

I'm no Justo Miranda, but I do my best. ;)
 

Michel Van

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Établissements E. Train of Courbevoie, France was a motorcycle manufacturer.

that's why i never heard of Train because i look for Aircraft engine manufacture

Thank for info Mole

I'm no Justo Miranda, but I do my best.
really ?
You show me information i never see before and that is something ! ;D
 

Jemiba

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Folks, many thanks, that's a good starting point !
And thank you, Mole, for mentioning the similarity to the Walter and Hirth
engines (this could be a very helpful clue indeed) and for the link ! ;)
 

Jemiba

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"What exactly are you looking for?"

3-views with dimensions of the engines would be the best, but photos, like those on
Joe Gertler's site are generally sufficient, too. One question (exhaust stacks on the
right hand side only ?) is already answered by the photos and if "with interchangeable parts"
can be read as a kind of modular construction, the 6 cylinder version could be used as a quite
good pattern for the 4 cyl. version, too. So it should be sufficient for a cut-away, I think. ;)
 

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