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Georges Messier Projects

hesham

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Hi,

That was aircraft for George Messier as low wing monoplane
powered by one HS 6Mb engine,I don't know if it was a fighter
or not.
 

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Deltafan

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The Messier plane was not a fighter but a testbed prototype for a retractable landing gear.

The Hispano Suiza 6 Mb engine had 250 hp

First fly : 21/04/1934
Last fly : 12/11/1935 (bad landing...)


Source : AFM n°6, 10-11/2005, p. 5 to 12.
 

hesham

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Thank you dear Deltafan,

and there is anther project to George Messier,a twin engined
research aircraft,powered by Bearn 6E engines and had estimated
speed of 385 km/h.
 

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Caravellarella

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Dear Boys and Girls, here is an article in French on L'Avion Messier which was a pre-war test-bed for a new kind of bicycle undercarriage. It isn't "secret" and it isn't a "project"......

The article comes from the 1st November 1963 issue of Aviation Magazine......

Terry (Caravellarella)
 

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JimK

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A most interesting looking airplane. As my French-reading skills are non-existant, could you tell me if it was intended to be more than an experiment with a bicycle-type landing gear? With a flush cockpit and a high-aspect-ratio wing, was it intended as a air racer? The Hispano Suiza engine appears to be an upright, inline six cylinder, but with a unusually tall installation when compared with contemporary Ranger-powered aircraft. Perhaps this is due to the mounting of the coolant radiator directly beneath it.
 

Caravellarella

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JimK said:
A most interesting looking airplane. As my French-reading skills are non-existant, could you tell me if it was intended to be more than an experiment with a bicycle-type landing gear? With a flush cockpit and a high-aspect-ratio wing, was it intended as a air racer? The Hispano Suiza engine appears to be an upright, inline six cylinder, but with a unusually tall installation when compared with contemporary Ranger-powered aircraft. Perhaps this is due to the mounting of the coolant radiator directly beneath it.
Dear JimK, at a glance I can see that L'Avion Messier was a purpose built test-bed aircraft to evaluate "un train rentrant monotrace" (a retractable bicycle undercarriage) and to evaluate "un voilure effilé" (a highly tapered wing) to reduce drag and improve streamlining......

One of our French friends will be able to give a better translation I'm sure (I'm not French)......

Terry (Caravellarella)
 

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Wow!!! Very cool looking airplane. Could be a great model.

Terry could you put a higher resolution image of the 3d view?

Thanks in advance
Luis
 

Silencer1

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Hi!

Another aircraft of similar layout - Soviet Stal-6 of Robert Bartini.

Also remains a prototype.

Cheers!
 

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Caravellarella

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theponja said:
Wow!!! Very cool looking airplane. Could be a great model.

Terry could you put a higher resolution image of the 3d view?

Thanks in advance
Luis
 

Jemiba

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An internal arrangement drawing from Aviation Francaise
Magazine N° 06, 10/11 2005:
 

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JimK

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Thank you, Terry, for the translation and 3-view and Jemiba for the inboard profile. Being a lifelong student of aircraft design, both bring up more questions than answers. I am always curious, in cases like this, as to why the designer laid the airplane out as he or she did, even if it is based on 80-year-past reasoning. Did this airplane ever fly? For an undercarriage test aircraft, why did the designer place the pilot in a position which would make landing the airplane accurately, more difficult. Was Lindberg's location in the Ryan N-Y-P an influence? Why would drag reduction be a consideration in such a test aircraft? I don't expect answers here, but one never knows.

I question some of the details in the 3-view. It shows apparent exhaust ports on the left side of the engine cowling, but the forward left-quarter picture in the accompanying article does not. I would expect the exhaust on an inline six to be on only one side. Are the ailerons really that large? Do they droop on landing to increase the lift coefficient of an, apparently, highly loaded wing? The balancing skids at mid-span appear to fold upon retraction. Do they really lie on the narrow chord ahead of the aileron hinge line or do they trail aft dividing the trailing edge into an inboard flap section and an outboard aileron?
 

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Don't know if it actually will answer your questions, but I can send you the scanned
article, if you are interested in it and willing to read french.
 

theponja

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Terry and Jemiba thanks a lot for the drawings.
Luis
 

hesham

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The source;


http://www.acam.asso.fr/histo/premiers_equipements1.php
 

hesham

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Excellent my dear Toura.
 

Jemiba

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From Aviation Francaise Magazine N°6, Oct./Nov.2005, two further pictures of the landing gear test bed
and a sketch for a light fighter aircraft.
 

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hesham

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Wow,great find my dear Jemiba,


and may be this fighter submitted to 1936 lightweight fighter competition.
 

Jemiba

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Some more from the mentioned AFM issue:
- A design for a racer, intended as a contender for the Coupe Deutsch de la Meurthe (_04)
- A twin engined twin boom design, either with single track landing gear, or a more conventional
twin float layout (_06/_07)
- A twin engined heavy fighter, proposed by René Fonk 1933 and called "défense de Paris", armed
with two 37mm guns, tow 20mm guns and two 7.7mm machine guns (_05)
 

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hesham

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That is fantastic my dear Jemiba.
 

hesham

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Jemiba said:
- A twin engined twin boom design, either with single track landing gear, or a more conventional
twin float layout (_06/_07)

My dear Jemiba,


is those project submitted to any competition ?.
 

Jemiba

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Sorry, no mention of aany competition, to me it seems, that
those projects didn't go very far.
 

hesham

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hesham said:
Wow,great find my dear Jemiba,


and may be this fighter submitted to 1936 lightweight fighter competition.

Thank you my dear Jemiba,


and may be I am wrong about the year 1936,I think this fighter submitted to 1930
lightweight fighter competition.
 

hesham

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From AFM magazine,


the Messier sketch drawing.
 

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hesham

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Hi,

Messier also had a Project for a high-wing airplane with fixed landing gear.
 

hesham

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Hi,

there was anther twin engined monoplane Project,intended as a night fighter.
 

VictorXL188

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Hi, I wonder if anyone can identify the type in the attached picture. To my mind it looks like a fighter design, but I may be wrong.
 

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GTX

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It looks a little like the Bartini Stal-6 or Stal-8 which makes me wonder if it is related to these. Where did you find the image?
 

Silencer1

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Last edited:

VictorXL188

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Thank you gentlemen, need to have something on this site to search images! I did try Google image search but to no avail, hence my request on here.
 
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