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General Dynamics (Convair) GETOL studies

Abraham Gubler

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Lauge said:
As for "naive"? - well, no-one here seems to claim that Stavatti is anything other than some neat graphics on a website. "Naive" would be if you actually believed any of it was real.
Not quite. There are some statements above that appear to be latching onto some of the Stavetti claims for legitimacy.

And as Tophe put it there is a naïve appreciation of good looking aerotech. Which I’m as vulnerable too as the next guy.

But the difference is like that between leafing through a copy of Playboy at your mate’s place (just for the articles of course) and becoming a promoter of pornography. Trying to encourage a serious discussion about the technical merits of Stavetti provides them a forum for their vapourware.

Lauge said:
As for "lacking a basic level of ethics"? No question that the originators of Stavatti fall under this heading, if they are using their designs to scam money from people. But do we, by extension, become morally deficient if we discuss the creations (valid or otherwise) of people with low or nonexistent ethics? If so, this would immediately exclude any discussion of, e.g., designs from WWII-era Germany, certainly those designs produced using slave labour, wouldn't it?
By promoting (by discussion, detail and historical exploration) of the aircraft and other activities of the Nazis one does not inherently promote Nazism. To argue that would be to say the Yad Vasham promotes mass murder of people with gas and then burning their bodies in industrial ovens. Of course some people may positively link the Nazis politics with the weapons technology but not here or anywhere else most of us travel.

The difference is that the bad thing about Stavetti is their aircraft designs. It is the cool looking aircraft which is designed to support a honey trap for uninformed and overly greedy speculators (>40% per annum returns). They are inherently the poison not some ideology represented by a symbol painted on the tail.
 

Jemiba

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Perhaps we could agree to the following points ?

- To our best knowledge, Stavatti heavy Industries isn't a company, that actually doesn't aim
at building or designing aircraft, but just to lure money from investors.

- That they use artist impressions for this purpose is more or less accidentally, they could
use as well pictures of naked women or sports cars, but that probably would reach other,
less wealthy clients, so they opted for aircraft.

- Discussion about politics, ethics, naivete or scepticism shouldn't be started here, as they
have no direct relation to aviation. If they are thought to be interesting for all members,
a more suitable place for posting them is the bar.

If somebody objects to this points, please PM me, or another moderator for re-opening this thread,
but I really think, keeping it open, will invoke senseless quarrel.

Topic locked
 

circle-5

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Factory model of the Convair GETOL in its final (1964?) design configuration, with larger cockpit area. Note mitered wingtips, intended to serve the same purpose as vertical endplates on various Burnelli and Horton Wingless aircraft projects. Engraved circles indicate fan-in-wing locations.

I have a photo of the scaled-down Convair GETOL proof-of-concept vehicle under construction, somewhere. Will post when it reappears on its own.
 

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Stargazer2006

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hesham said:
the Convair report for the design called Model ZP-294
No! According to my research:

Convair VTOL/GETOL Logistic Transport Vehicle, Report # ZP-296, dated February 1960.

Of course, there could have been several separate reports for distinct GETOL designs, but I need some source.
 

Spook

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1.An alternative design had a more conventional wing, again with tip turbine fans, and utilized a conventional empennage.This version located the cruise turboprop engines in a pusher configuration at the trailing edge of the wing jut behind the lift fans.

2. A Navy idea also studied by Convair was the tilt-float concept in conjunction with the GETOL study. In this designs approach , retractable vertical floats were deployed such that the aircraft was raised above the surface and out of the waves and swells. i believe this concept was later tested on Martin P5M. (not sure)!!
 

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Stargazer2006

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Fantastic finds, thanks Ardavan.K ! Wow, this has been quite a day on SPF. No wonder I love this place...
 

Jemiba

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Ardavan.K said:
i believe this concept was later tested on Martin P5M. (not sure)!!
Seems so, as in Bradleys "Convair Advanced Designs" it is mentioned, that Convair ".. was
negotiating with the Navy for the use of two non-flying PBM-5G aircraft in January 1961. "

Drawing from the mentioned book, the GETOL aircraft are shown there, too.
 

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Spook

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Jemiba said:
Ardavan.K said:
i believe this concept was later tested on Martin P5M. (not sure)!!
Seems so, as in Bradleys "Convair Advanced Designs" it is mentioned, that Convair ".. was
negotiating with the Navy for the use of two non-flying PBM-5G aircraft in January 1961. "

Drawing from the mentioned book, the GETOL aircraft are shown there, too.
Cool... That clears out many things... Judging from the picture it should be P^Y ... so the GETOL was kind of the continue of the ASW right?

Thank you,

Stargazer2006 said:
Fantastic finds, thanks Ardavan.K ! Wow, this has been quite a day on SPF. No wonder I love this place...
You are very welcome sir, i am very glad that you liked it :).. here is also the 3-view for it that i recently got by one of my friends

Regards,

AK
 

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fightingirish

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Jemiba

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Many thanks for sharing those pictures !
I think, there are similarities to Northrops F-89 ...
 

dan_inbox

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What would be the purpose of this GETOL design in the Army? Surely not ASW as mentioned earlier, that's Navy.
Then, observation? It sure looks more fashionable than an O-1 bird dog, but...
 

overscan

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From SDASM Flickr Convair collection.

(Added to existing topic)
 

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Grey Havoc

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What would be the purpose of this GETOL design in the Army? Surely not ASW as mentioned earlier, that's Navy.
Then, observation? It sure looks more fashionable than an O-1 bird dog, but...
Another role would have been as a liaison aircraft.
 
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